Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by paincave, Feb 18, 2010.
Money buys want.
I'd like to do a fantasy-based mod, Xien's idea seems interesting, but I'd prefer a more fantasy-based one, and, there's no point letting all this lore go to waste There are the next ages for FFH, the Age of Despair, the Age of Enlightenment, the Age of Machines ect ect xD
If it is to be a FFH mod, it must remain true to FFH.
The easiest thing to do is set down a design doc, outlining the purpose and scope of the project. I think that's handily answered with creating a mod worthy of being called FFH3. I would think that's what most here would want for Civ5.
But, FFH is Kael's baby and he's done a darn good job of holding it together and seeing it through. So, IMO, it'd need to have his approval at the very least if it was going to bear that name.
There's plenty of lore out there, some simply fan created, some "official" if one can call it that. Take the official stuff, flesh it out and see if there's a "game" in there somewhere worthy of the new capabilities Civ5 will provide and deserving of the name FFH3. Somehow, I'm absolutely positive there is.
Xien's idea are really good but I think there will be a port to ciV first. Wait, what would it be called? Kael said that he wanted the "Fall from Heaven" name reserved for things created by the team and himself.
I believe technically if Firaxis wants to make FFH3, they can without any permission, though I'm sure they'd seek Kael's advice and approval for anything they did. Simply because if they don't involve him at least as a consultant, they won't likely get it right and it will be an epic fail.
Well, I agree they'd get it "wrong" if Kael&Co were not involved.
But, Firaxis would be in a tough situation if they took the "Fall From Heaven" name/style and slapped it on an included mod in Civ5 without proper concern for its mod developers.
"Legally" I don't know that they have any title at all to the naming conventions used in FFH. But, if they did do something so outrageous they'd face far worse consequences in the game-fan sector. Bajillions of modders of games of all genres would literally "freak out" after it was sufficiently publicized. It would be a developer saying to modders - We will take credit for your imagination without your consent. The message that game modders would take away - "Don't create mods because companies will steal them from you."
No, I don't Firaxis would want blatantly rip off Kael&Co regardless of whether they could or not. Designing a game so that it is built for modding is a way to get a value-added resource from a fan-base. It has been shown to increase the sales and longevity of a game. That increases the returns on the bottom line for all that development work. No developer would want to shoot themselves in the foot by tearing up their fanbase like that. That fanbase keeps their electricity on and second and third-stage sales of the game depend on the fanbase and, sometimes, on mods. Ask Valve and id...
However, that being said, there isn't anything keeping them from continuing Age of Ice unless there was something in a prior agreement between Kael&Co and Firaxis. (Not trying to get into their business. The legalese is between the concerned parties.)
I think Civ5 should be marketed as 'Fall from Heaven' and Civ5 should be some sorta mod you download seperatly
Maybe they have made FFH3 to Civ V.
With the consent of Kael.
And an agreement which forbids him to discuss it.
I'd much prefer to find CIV V comes with "FfH: Age of Magic," a prequel to the Age of Ice scenario that came with BtS, outlining the Rise and Fall of Patria. it would be much more advanced that AoI, but less then the FfH3 mod that he would have to work on here on this forum until Civ VI comes out. (I would of course accept a hiatus in order to make an Age of Dragons mod for some Civ V expansion.)
I agree, that would be an excellent idea for a mod published with Civilization V. I would still want FFH3 if at all posible, especially if made by Kael and the Fall from Heaven mod group.
With the preliminary info coming out on Civ 5 it doesn't look like a FFH port would be the same game.
No leader traits
It seems in order to streamline the game they may be restricting the mod community from adding complex game mechanics. I hope they just aren't holding these back to sell add-ons e.g. Civ 5 - The religions (see borderlands).
The best part of FFH is that civs are heterogeneous. I hope Civ 5 hasn't hurt the mod community by making the game 'accessible'.
At any rate, it is good to see the mod community will go on undaunted with, or in spite of, the next games direction.
Well, Civ 5 has been described as MORE moddable than Civ 4, and the C++ is confirmed as a return (All the tools have been taken to a whole new level, so the more you know about XML and programmable DLL, the more you'll be able to achieve with the game.), so honestly, Religions can be readded.
Correction: WILL be readded. It's inevitable; They may want to avoid it for the base game for the sake of being PC, but any conversion mod would likely want to use it. Hell, a mod like Rise of Mankind would want to use it, it's a major part of our history.
But that doesn't mean it has to have the same in-game properties as in Civ4 - I'm sure there are more interesting and useful ideas as to what gameplay properties it can have! =) I for one, especially in any future FFH mod/sequel, would like to see religion modded into Civ5 to have more variety in properties and functions than the standard way religion is treated in Civ4.
i personally would like to see where a FfH3 story would go, from what i have seen of the story so far it would seem the the Death sphere is infighting (Laroth's revolt), Fire (Briget? would have been released), Life (Balsum? could have finally snapped), Water (If that water god wakes up then the OO would fight to keep the Water sphere) so four spheres would be infighting.
and several civ have been destroyed as well, Ice(Illians), Chaos(Doviello), (Nature/Shadow) either the Ljosalfar or Svaetalfar, and maybe several others too.
I would want to join the Kael team to work on FF3 but if not i think i may take some of these ideas and use them in a Norse based mod for Civ5.
[i kind of can't help thinking of little tweeks to make to FfH, improvements to existing civs, and new ideas to replace those civs i think died, ect]
It's unfortunate but a compliment to the game Kael and co have made, that after playing this game I have no interest in playing vanilla civ any longer. I've tried a couple of times but usually end up leaving the game and never coming back within 100 turns. Heck, even other mods are nowhere near as good as this one is. That said, I'll probably pick up Civ 5 and play it a few times to check it out at least and so that I can keep this series afloat. Civ is a series of game that I've bought multiple times just so I can levy the opposite of a boycott, or as Penny Arcade dubbed it "purchasing".
Hello! Score, post number 3 ...
So, I have been playing FfH for a fairly long time now, and would really like to get involved if the world/setting should be transferred to Civ V. I've never modded before, but I've decided Civ V is the time to start ...
Also: with regards to the magic/tech mod idea discussed earlier, I wonder if you guys/gals have read the Lirael, Sabriel, Abhorsen trilogy by Garth Nix? It would make a brilliant basis for a mod/the ideas of magic vs tech are done quite well in it. Also: if you'd like to let another person help with any ideas/modding/whatnot, then you could count me in. You know, if you wanted to. Please.
Also also: I am a fan of the idea two worlds of magic and technology somewhat colliding, so certain things only work in certain areas. Could be tricky to balance, alternatively, could be AWESOME.
Also also also: if I can't get involved with something else, then darnit I'll make the BEST MOD EVER ALL BY MYSELF, and then you'll be sorry. Yeah. It's not like I have a degree to finish *sighs*.
The layer made mods in CIV 4 are better than the original game. FFH2 is the most outstanding example, but even in the non fantasy area, Total realism is better than vanilla, so is RoM and QC, so the mods make the game. I *never* play vanilla civ 4 now.
Will I buy 5? Yeah I will, just to support it. But beyond giving it a try im unlikely to play it unless they have made it as detailed as Total realism or come close to it. Unlikely to say the least. It is also unlikely to have a fantasy version close to as good (if at all) as FFH2. So probably i will go back to playing civ 4 till 5 has mods for it. I just hope they make it easy to convert.
I guess other games have better mods than their original game too but not that many. The total war series is one of them.
You have 4 reasons why a FFH3 would be difficult.
No leader traits is incorrect. Leaders WILL have traits. This quote is from IGN. It sounds like they are moving somewhat to FFH idea of making civs uniqe. Obviously, civs will be much more similar in Civ V then in FFH, but still.
As far as no espionage goes, this is not a problem. FFH does not have espionage.
No stacks changes things, but that does not make FFH3 an impossibility. It no more makes FFH3 an impossibility then it makes Civ V an impossibility.
No religion is your only point which has merit. I am not a modder by any means, however, Valkrionn says religion should be able to be re-added. RifE is the only version of Civ IV I play anymore, in the words of Captain James Tiberius Kirk, "his best guess is worth more then other people's facts." Or something like that.
Civ5 leaders won't have traits like FFH and civ4 - they'll have unique powers, like in RFC.
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