Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Lore' started by Nikis-Knight, Apr 18, 2007.
Your turn, thomas.berubeg...
Even though they are assigned as default races, not all are exactly racial promotions. Some (Nomad and Winterborn) don't have <bRace>1, and so are not mutually exclusive. For example, Malakim Soldiers of Kilmorph are dwarves and nomads, and Doviello drowns are winterborn undead.
The racial promotions are:
Edit: Oh, I see xienwolf already explained this
I don't know if we were really told the time frame of when any archangels were created in relation to when others were created, except that Basium and Gyra (Arawn's twin archangels of Life and Death) are twins, and that Agares never "created" an archangel. Instead his dark vision split Cernunnos in two, and the corrupt one became Hyborem, his "archangel" (although the term might not fit exactly since Agares doesn't really have a hierachy and encourages all this angels to compete). Sucellus was the god of Nature when he made Cernunnos, although he latter became the god of Life. I do not think were ever told if Cernunnos picked/created a new archangel when he was promoted. Ceridwen was always the goddess of the Stars/dimensions and Amathoan was always god of Fertility/Creation. All the archangels were created after the one sundered the path between creation and heaven, which was after Agares open rebellion was discovered, which was after the creation of man. Thus, Nemed was not a god anymore at the time, so he never created an archangel.
Who's realm is a site of constant battle between opposing forces?
What is a conastant battle?
that would be a typo...
Camulo's is? that's not the one i was thinking... but if you say so, it's MC's turn.
MC, care to elaborate?
Thomas, are you thinking of the elves and the Svartalfar/Ljosalfar civil war?
Or Oghma's misty library battling the demons of Mammon?
I think he might have been thinking of Mammon's siege of Oghma's vault. That was actually in a D&D campaign instead of canonical FfH, and that world was Erebus. Also, I think the mist that caused all those non descended from Oghma's angels to go crazy and forget who they are meant is wasn't exactly all out war.
As appropriate for a god of Chaos/War, Camulos encourages his demons to constantly fight anyone, including each other. Thus, his hell is in an unending civil war.
Yeah, i was thinking of Oghma's vault and Mammon.
isn't that story cannon? i thought it was considered cannon, though unknown to most inhabitants of Erebus...
Cool. I missed the Notre Dame connection. I was making a reference to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
Well...sort of, but not really. Kael has confirmed that Mammon still laid siege her vault and I think she still protected her the libraries of her vault with the fog of forgetfulness. However, FfH's Erebus is not her vault, but a neutral plane composed of equal parts of every sphere, which all the gods worked together to create. Some characters, civs, locations, etc., were moved to being in this Erebus instead. Some things have been changed. For Instance, in the original version Lita the Witch was an angel of Oghma who was repeatedly raped by a demon of Mammon (Hastur himself?) to spawn demons (Mardero and his brethren) immune to the effects of the fog. In FfH, she was a mortal whose blood let her children act freely in creation without violating the terms of the Compact.
Now, see, I never understood that. How did Mardero's father collect Lita without violating the Compact? And what sort of demon would be so powerful that attacking Erebus outright would be considered a violation?
is it open floor?
I guess it's MC's turn for Camulos guess. If not, then it is Tyrs who gets to go for getting Ohgma/Mammon battle that Thomas was thinking of.
Lita's fellow mortals threw her from the Cliffs of Hastur. I believe that at the base of these cliffs there is a portal that leads to either one of the hells or (more likely) a sort of "border dimension," similar to the Shadowed Vale. (Like the shadowed vale, the barrier is made of of thick fog.) Lita fell into this area, where The Compact does not apply.
If we can judge by the place's name, the demon may have very well have been Hastur himself. Hastur is the archangel under Mammon, God of Mind and Greed, and is himself called the Lord of Nightmares. It is he who whispers in the ear of the sleeping Danalin, corrupting his dreams. It is he who is responsible for the creation of Hemeh, and of the Overlords. More mortals follow Mammon than any other god, so Hastur is quite possibly now the greatest demon not created by The One. (In the original version, he was almost certainly the commander of the siege on Erebus, to whom all other demons had to answer.)
Of course, plenty of Archangels have entered Creation anyway, and there hasn't been retaliation for this. I'm not sure, but maybe this just wasn't translated into FfH's Erebus all that well.
Or, maybe the Demon was free to enter under the compact (and Lita was till in Erebus when she was taken), but he just couldn't use his power to the extend he wanted. Still, the civilopedia does say that Mardero was "unbound by the Compact because of his human heritage but as destructive and loyal to the forces of Entropy as any demon."
Oh yeah, I'm supposed to ask a question. Hmm...lets see, what hasn't been asked yet. What I really want to ask is "Where is Nemed now?", but I should probably ask something that someone could answer by looking through everything that has been posted in the forum or appears in the game, despite (xienwolf's?) earlier suggestions that this thread should be used to force Kael to reveal new info.
Ok, What are all the spells that Grigori Medics can cast?
They can only cast cure disease and heal, or if the worldspell is available, that one.
I just checked with worldbuilder by giving all techs and giving it alot of xp. I am playing as Sheaim atm though.
I agree on using this thread to get Kael to give us more info, lol
But they can also cast all the priest spells too, if they have the religion required for them. Since these are not given by promotion, you missed them.
That's only if you cheat using WB though, and since Cassiel can't use state religion, they can't use it. I'll check in a little bit once I get AV in my game.
So for now, my guess of 3 still stands. Of course though, that depends on whether Magister meant with or without WB.
Religions of a unit do not require a state religion. If a city has a religion, there is a chance units built in it will have the religion. So the Medics could have those spells.
Wyrmhero is right that the medics can cast any priest (or even high priest) spell. The Grigori are thus capable of haveing many more and stronger divine casters than any religious civs. No one else can field an unlimited army of units with spells like Unyielding Order, Bloom, Crown of Brilliance, Tsunami, Summon Balor, Summon Treant, and summon Kraken (they are also the only civ that have unlimited Krakens), and their casters alone have all their abilities as soon as they are built (if they follow a religion). This is a problem that I've pointed out several times (and corrected in my version). Pointing this out again was the main point of the question.
Units added in world builder don't get religions. All religious spells except spread Council of Esus depend only on the unit's religion, not State Religion (not true in my version). The Agnostic Trait does slow the spread of religions in your land, but it by no means stops it. Using worldbuilder to place every religion in a city would greatly increase the chances of the Medics starting with a religion, but no more so having another player use priests to build temples of multiple religions in your cities. (This sounds like a very potent strategy in a multiplayer game, especially if Cassiel is in a permanent alliance with a spiritual trait leader.)
There are technically plenty other spells they can cast too, spells that almost any unit can cast. Should I make someone come up with an exhaustive list (including spells like Recruit Mercenary ans Sirona's Touch) or just give it to Wyrmhero?
edit: yeah, I got tired of seeing so many new user's whose posts at first glance appeared to be mine. It was just the default great prophet pic before, so it was common among new members. I considered picking a great scientist/sage instead to match my title and in game appearance, but I don't really like the modern look of the unit. Govannon qualifies as a sage, right? Unfortunately his pic was 4.3 kb and the limit is 4.0 kb, so I had to trim part of the border off to make it fit.
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