FfH2 0.30 Balance Issues

[onedreamer]

The funny thing about Fend for Themselves, is that it's so much better than Basic Care that ALL the AIs switch to it, yet the good guys criticize you if you adopt it, while they are running it !

 

[Shakiko]

Well, these were my observations I made during those 20 games. So of course those are quite subjectively and may vary with your experience.


@Maelstrom: I agree; Maelstrom is quite powerful but it still pales compared to Meteors.
Melstrom's limited to a certain % of damage (max. Meteordmg is higher) and especially Maelstrom's range is alot lower. When standing 2 tiles away you are in range of hostile Assassins/Marksmenm, thus a natural counter exists within the game.
Meteor works up to 5 tiles away.
On top of that it's you targeting the vivtims of the meteors, not the computer.


@Moneychanger/Library:
Sure, its the same bonus, but Library gives access to a World wonder while the Bazaar is "just" a national wonder - and the bazaar won't give you any great merchants for free.
On top of that +25% is alot better as I (and I guess the majority of civ players) try to stick the science slider as high as possible.
25% more coins, when it's just 10-20% of my commerce isn't that much, but 25% more science, when it's 80-90% of the commerce, is.



@Forge:
It's the same value as in vanilla Civ, but FFH's credo is: "Choose your buildings to build carefully; you have to specialize your cities" - In Vanilla civ you can just build everything in every city (well, thats abit exaggerated, but I hope you get the point )
On top of that in vanilla there are more buildings like the Forge, improving your hammers - unless you play dwarves you won't get any +xx% in FFH, thus the value of the Forge drastically improves, making it a no-brainer-building to build. (at least for me)

 

[3141592]

Slaves seem to powerfull. They convert money into hammers at a 1.5 to one ration. That doesn't seem like much, but it means the alter of Lunicitor and Tower of Magic can both be built for under 3000 gold. I would recommend making it .75 to one or .5 to one. Then slaves would still be a better deal than gold rushing, but not that much better.

 

[Quetz]

has anyone ever noticed anything actually losing health from Razorweed/Gulagarn? I seem to remember seeing that something was added in a relatively recent Fire patch that made it so healing couldnt be negative, and I can't say I've ever seen anything lose even .1 str from being in my lands, even though I had 8 razors and 4 guls the one game.

Speaking of which I can't say I've ever noticed Wither having an effect, either...

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Kael indeed did forbid negative healing. That means that they don't lose any strength no matter how much Razorweed/Gulagarm/Entropy Mana you have or how many/strong the negative healing promotions you give enemy units are. They just lower the rate at which the unit heals if it would be healing otherwise. I believe that having beyond 6 Entropy Mana is therefore completely useless.


I'm still hoping that someone can convince Kael to allow true negative healing, but not to lower than, say, 20% strength. (Kael's concern wasn't so much that it would kill units though, but that the AI would be too dumb to understand whats going on and would fortify their units where they are until they heal, which would never happen. He feared that a little Entropy Mana would make your cities invulnerable to AI enemies' armies in single player games, since presumably all their units would stop moving if they become slightly injured. )


I was just thinking that (if the morale mechanic gets implemented) causing enemies to lose morale would be a better passive effect of Entropy Mana. (It has been stated that, although Agares is called the Angel of the Night or the Angel of Entropy, calling the former Angel of Hope the Angel of Despair is more appropriate. Entropy = Despair => Morale Penalties just makes more sense than healing penalties.) Of course, depending on how morale would work (was it Kael who proposed a Fear-like mechanic where low morale troops refuse to fight, or was that me?), enough might still be able to make you invulnerable. But I assume that it would work with probabilities, so the exact amount needed wouldn't be set, and there would probably be spells (courage, valor), maybe other passive mana effects (spirit), that could be used to counter act this.

 

[Mu-Dog]

Not sure if this is a balance issue or more of a bug but if you get The Council of Essus as the Amurites you can use Govannon to teach shadows raise skeleton. Then you can put the shadows on some cities (assuming there isn't anyone who can see them there). Then if you declare war you can cast raise skeleton and you will automatically take the city. Since you're council of essus the shadows stay where they are and the summon spell pushes all the enemy units off the space.

Though the idea of taking over a city because a bunch of skeletons rose up from the ground inside the city is kinda cool

 

[Cuteunit]

I really think that the Ljosalfar world spell ( march of the trees) needs a technology requirement... being able to create a tremendous number of 11 str units at turn 1 on smaller maps is a game winner..


I also really think that the Amurite spell ( arcane lacuna) shouldnt de-build mana nodes in your own civ... maybe in civs which are at war with you at the time sure, but not your own! I dont think anybody else's world spell has such a downside as this does...

I also think mana nodes could stand to be a lot more common in the world...

 

[seZereth]

I really think that the Ljosalfar world spell ( march of the trees) needs a technology requirement... being able to create a tremendous number of 11 str units at turn 1 on smaller maps is a game winner..


I also really think that the Amurite spell ( arcane lacuna) shouldnt de-build mana nodes in your own civ... maybe in civs which are at war with you at the time sure, but not your own! I dont think anybody else's world spell has such a downside as this does...

I also think mana nodes could stand to be a lot more common in the world...

treants last only for 3 turns and you need a lot of wood in your city radius in turn one. so, it can be game breaking, but its not neccessary.

the amurite world spell... its not a downside to be able to choose new mana types in the middle of a game, if you want to change tactic and need new spells, you can cast the spell and create different sorts of mana, which provides you with access to spellspheres you could not get otherwise.

 

[bc1]

IMHO the 2 features which are really unbalanced are slaves & Gibbons.
Slaves overpower has already been beaten to death in this thread.
Gibbon's impersonate leader spell is outright broken. Yes it has been reduced in patch b, but it still allows a human player get rid of a civ completely - this can even be triggered in a single turn: declare war with everyone else, and move all units outside all cities - and that's only a small example of the harm that can be done. Might as well have a spell "pick the civ you want killed" - less micromanagement. Not fun, especially if you're on the receiving end (never happened to me yet I only play SP).

 

[Cuteunit]

treants last only for 3 turns and you need a lot of wood in your city radius in turn one. so, it can be game breaking, but its not neccessary.

the amurite world spell... its not a downside to be able to choose new mana types in the middle of a game, if you want to change tactic and need new spells, you can cast the spell and create different sorts of mana, which provides you with access to spellspheres you could not get otherwise.

This reads as inanity.

Why not build a new node over an old, or self pillage if you want to change mana types for some bizarre reason? Besides, if in Bizarro World debuilding all your mana nodes is a good thing; then considing that it does the same to other players arent you giving them a "not a downside" too?

Lanun worldspell doesnt mess up Lanun owned tiles.. amurite spell shouldnt mess up amurite tiles. Particularly not for the pittance of EXP it ever nets you.

Honestly, considering how Amurites function, the Amurite world spell should be a sort of self-only Ritual of Ogham.

Elves seem to always start in a tile with abundant woodland. This has not been an issue in the last six games I've played in 0.3. What is an issue is summoning xyzillions of 11 str units any time you please, even if you only get to do it once. Nothing can survive it. it needs a tech requirement like other world spells have.

 

[OzzyKP]

How often do you have enemy cities within 3 tiles of your borders that early in the game?

 

[Cuteunit]

Frequently. Some people actually play on Terra maptype and the like.

Think about it, how long does it take for everyone else to get units that won't die to an 11 str tree much less twenty of them? Any invasion can be defeated all the way up to late game.

Too powerful.

 

[Grey Fox]

This reads as inanity.

Why not build a new node over an old, or self pillage if you want to change mana types for some bizarre reason?

You can't. It's not mana anymore, it's whatever you've turned it into. So if you pillage a Chaos Mana, it's still a Chaos Mana.´The only way to turn it into regular mana is by making that tile fall into neutral hands or by the Amurite spell.

Besides, if in Bizarro World debuilding all your mana nodes is a good thing; then considing that it does the same to other players arent you giving them a "not a downside" too?

The others can't plan for it. You as the Amurites can build 20 wizards, and place 4 on each of your 5 Mana nodes, and rebuild them instantly after the spell is cast, gaining X amount of XP on each Wizard where X is amount of total Mana nodes in the world. You now have 20 wizards that can take Y new level promotions.

Lanun worldspell doesnt mess up Lanun owned tiles.. amurite spell shouldnt mess up amurite tiles. Particularly not for the pittance of EXP it ever nets you.

Lanun spell is an aggressive spell. Amurite is a functional one.

Honestly, considering how Amurites function, the Amurite world spell should be a sort of self-only Ritual of Ogham.

That both be too good and at the same time not as good as the current spell.

Elves seem to always start in a tile with abundant woodland. This has not been an issue in the last six games I've played in 0.3. What is an issue is summoning xyzillions of 11 str units any time you please, even if you only get to do it once. Nothing can survive it. it needs a tech requirement like other world spells have.

What do you do? Play with 16 civs on a tiny map? Or do you move your settler and settle right next to your enemies?

 

[Cuteunit]

What do you do? Play with 16 civs on a tiny map? Or do you move your settler and settle right next to your enemies?

That actually happened in a 1v1 versus on Small, once

My point is that unless you're playing Team Continents or something, you *will* at some point have your borders getting really cozy with somebody else's, and no production or tech tree required 11 str is 11 str. You don't even get something that big until Arquebuses. Is it really OK that once per game Ljos can repel any invasion with a near guarantee and in some cases even use it as ovewhelming offense?

 

[OzzyKP]

Is it really OK that once per game Ljos can repel any invasion with a near guarantee and in some cases even use it as ovewhelming offense?

Yup




................

 

[Cuteunit]

No it isnt

 

[kumquatelvis]

Good civ's probably shouldn't be able to build the pillar of chains.

 

[Sureshot]

and Pillar of Chains should stack with Calabims Governors Manor, it wasn't when last i checked.

 

[Broken Hawk]

Good civ's probably shouldn't be able to build the pillar of chains.

You could say the same thing about about the Prophecy of Ragnarok. I've built it as a good civ just to keep the AC down, building no units in whatever city chosen to hold it.

 

[Quetz]

"Marihuana leads to pacifism and communist brainwashing" - are you saying it doesnt? hahah

Anyways, I have to agree the Amurite spell is not only weak, but.. well.. unoriginal. They already get xp from nodes, another chance to is pretty redundant. I'd definately rather see somethign else for this one along with Basium.

More nodes would definately be nice, also