FfH2 0.30 Balance Issues

[MagisterCultuum]

I agree that ancient towers should only upgrade while in someone's cultural borders.

There should be a way to spread the Council of Esus before it becomes you state religion. Requiring the Undercouncil Membership Civic instead of CoE state religion would be nice.

(I think that having Undercouncil votes based on how many of your people worship Esus, like how the AP works in BtS, would be appropriate too. Everyone should still be equal on the Overcouncil.)

It seems a little odd to me that Vicars have Law magic just like Confessors do. The only difference between them is that Vicars have Sun instead of Spirit. I think the main sphere of the god each religion worships should be available only to that religion's priests. The Spirit sphere would fit the Empyren's priests much better than Law would.

What happens to the units in a city when it reverts back to its old owner through culture? I think my cultural influence completely destroyed the Giant Gorilla Barbarian Hero Beast (Gurid, is it?). It doesn't seem like culture should be able to recapture a city held by such a unit, and it definately shouldn't destroy world units completely.


I too find the Cult of the Dragon annoying/not fun.

I think Colony liberation should be re-written, without the arbitrary requirement that they consist of 2 or more cities on a different continent. The AI should also be taught how to liberate better. (The Khazad should liberate cities if their Vaults get too low, the Lanun should liberate most of their landlocked cities but keep the coasts, etc.) Some events that practically force the player (human or AI) to liberate cities might be good too.

 

[Blakmane]

Barbatos and Orthus are causing serious issues seemingly on even more of a widespread scale since Shadow came out.

What difficulty are you playing on? Are you playing raging barbs or just normal? How many warriors are you building in your cities in preparation of orthus?

Because i'm just about to report the opposite problem. Monarch difficulty, raging barbs, barbarian world, wildlands. Orthus rushed my civ alone and killed himself after taking down a single bait warrior. The barbs themselves are weaklings that are still sending goblins after me while I have assasins. Animals are virtually non-existant. So far i've found a single bear camp, and no other animal types or units. Playing as svartalfar, this is annoying- I empty out multiple cities using HN units, but then the barbs walk right by them to raze farms or attack my units.

*edit*

also, to the person complaining about sacrifice the weak, It's a powerful civic because you cannot acquire it without also summoning hyborem into the world, which will convert all your land into hell terrain (which is detrimental). On a religion by religion basis it's no more powerful than, say, guardian of nature or social order (which kicks arse now- no unhappiness ever ftw?)

I also don't understand these barbatos issues. If he spawns near you, just move your settler 1 turn further away? then later you get a free XP farm, and after that a free death mana/item.

 

[ZhugeTien]

Seems I'm not the only one who thinks CoD needs an overhaul. Yes, it should cause trouble for anyone not the Sheaim or Kuriotates. Heck, it should probably give them a culture bonus based on how much gold, gems, etc. to which they have access per the corporation mechanics of BtS. However, seeing it spread over otherwise impassable ocean squares is a bit disheartening, as it makes the AI constantly have revolt problems and makes human players' cities have similar issues to prevent the spread of those dang lizard-lovers. Perhaps it could be coded to spread only along trade routes? Or if that is too much trouble, then make the cult more like a vanilla corporation, with a unit required to spread it. The current mechanics are a bit much.

Speaking of Dragons: Please, please, please, please, please reinstate the mithril in Dragon's Hoard. The same argument that I've seen on various threads regarding Mines of Gal-Dur and Iron would need be implemented, of course. One should not have mithril weapons without Mithril Working, naturally. As the Doviello's mechanics have changed somewhat since the initial whining, I do not see how this could imbalance the game. Sure, you could rush Acheron early with a ton of encouraged axemen or whatever, but the mithril will do you no good until you have the appropriate technology to work it. The enchanted weapon thing just isn't nearly as flavorful.

Guilds seem to need some serious balance work. I love the ideas behind them, but having the Guild of Nine be founded by the first to reach Currency takes all the fun out of mercenaries. If you aren't the first one to reach that technology, how are you supposed to utilize mercenary units? Perhaps a simple free mercenary on researching Currency would fix this. Sure, you don't found the Guild of Nine, but gaining access to mercenaries with the proper tech would be more balanced and interesting. HN ftw.

The other guilds face similar issues. I'm not sure how the Ratcatchers are coded, but it seems to make sense that any city with a sufficiently high crime level should have access to the spread event. Yes, I am suggesting that this work across unpassable terrain. Yes, I know that I have said the Cult of Dragon should not. Yes, this does make perfect sense to me. The Ratcatcher's Guild seems to represent a Thieves' Guild type organization, which could form in any city with a sizable criminal population. The Cult of the Dragon is a very specific religious following designed to give power to two specific civs, or at least to make their enemies suffer. I feel that if one has no contact/trade with a CoD city, one should have no chance of having to tolerate their mockeries.

On the other hand, thieves, mercenaries, and assassins are everywhere. The Ratcatcher's Guild, while specifically named, should be as liberal in spreading as the other guilds should be. Perhaps rework the rest of the guilds to spread as the Cult does now. It makes more sense for them to be able to do so. The Cult's spread should be based on trade routes (utilized or not) between Cult cities and potential recipients.

That's my two cents' worth. Thanks for always caring enough to listen.

 

[ZhugeTien]

While I'm ranting... I caught another couple of issues from the other posts after typing out my previous monstrosity. Alazkan's mirror should have the illusion promotion and other failsafes to prevent possible abuse. Also, ancient towers which are not within someone's cultural borders should not be upgrading.

I must confess I have not built Alazkan yet, but reading these other posts concerning his apparent brokenness, I am inclined to agree. The mirror of such a hero should be restricted insofar as which actions it could take. The potential for abuse of Declare Nationality makes this apparent. Perhaps it could be coded so that if either declares, both do? Or perhaps the mirror should operate as illusions in certain tabletop games do (i.e. physical contact disrupts and dispels them). This should make the unit retain the intended function for both the AI and human players, if coded properly, but I'm no programmer. I trust in the team's skill to find a way to make it work, though. Otherwise the Svartalfar get two heroes for the price of one. It's better than that, actually, but I think you can see our point.

As far as ancient towers go, it doesn't make any sense at all that they spontaneously upgrade themselves without some people to work them. Even barbarians are smart enough to build up fortifications, but when the things are sitting idly outside anyone's borders, it's silly to watch them grow into citadels seemingly of their own accord. I have a feeling the reason they were implemented this way is that it would be difficult to code otherwise. If that's the case, I understand, but given your past exemplary work with the nuances of this game, I can only hope that you will correct the issue in some later patch.

Again, thanks for all the hard unpaid work guys. After 100,000 downloads, you clearly have created the best Civ mod ever made. Cheers to all of you, and my unending thanks.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I agree completely. (Although I would also love it if the Doviello were given a special mechanic where their units could steal the weapons promotions from those they defeat, without needing the tech normally required.)

Oh, is there any way to know a city's crime rate? That would be very useful in deciding what buildings to build, whether you are trying to reduce the crime or get the Ratcatchers Guild's headquarters.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Might be better if the Kurios/Sheaim had an invisible, enter rival territory "executive" type unit which spread the CotD, then the owner of the city it was being spread to would get the events.

I also support any one researching currency getting a free merc, or else events added that spreads that guild, or else add back the mercenary conversion chance upon defeat.

This is an interesting idea as well:

There should be a way to spread the Council of Esus before it becomes you state religion. Requiring the Undercouncil Membership Civic instead of CoE state religion would be nice.

 

[ZhugeTien]

Absolutely! An "executive" type unit to spread CoD! Perfect! Hidden, nasty, and still irritating to non-draconic people, but in a believable and reasonable way. Dragon Disciple. Marvelous.

Yes, having the Undercouncil civic as a prereq does make more sense, and lends the Undercouncil the power it needs to oppose the other religions in the game. I recently played a hotseat game with a friend, and managed to found the Undercouncil as the Amurites. His Grigori joined me after I gave him Deception for later Iron Working, but I had to wait for the religion to spread via shrine and such to several AI players so I could give them Deception and thereby make the Undercouncil interesting. When it was founded, I was the only member and voted myself leader. That reminds me of a cosmetic issue I'll post in the appropriate thread...

Mercenary conversion chance wouldn't be bad either, but I think it needs a bit more umph than that in order to return mercenaries to their former glory. I once relied on them, which makes it curious that I can't seem to get into the Svartalfar yet, but that's another matter.

Thanks for your input, Knight. Good to know I'm not totally unreasonable with some suggestions. (Well, at least only unreasonable in similar manner... heh)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Council of Esus civs needs some way to get rid of other religions in their cities. Since they don't have any priests, they cannot get inquisitors.


Giving a free mercenary that can found the Guild of the Nice instead of just founding it would be nice, and Mercenaries should be capturable again (I would like the return of HN status too, but that might be too much).

Actually, I would much prefer it if mercenary was a promotion rather than a unit. The Hire Mercenary spell should trigger an deal-type event (basically the types of events that the guild makes available randomly should be triggered by the spell instead) allowing you to hire units with the Mercenary promotion (which would allow spreading the guild, and make the units fairly likely to switch sides if defeated) instead of paying a fixed coat for a fixed unit. These could be pretty much any unit available to any civ at its current tech level, meaning you could sometimes hire dwarven siege units or elven archers as mercenaries. Actually, I think it might be better still if the units you could hire were those available to be built in other Guild of the Nine cities. Sometimes they might come with xp or promotions, but at higher cost. This would give you a god reason to spread it to rival civs, despite giving them an advantage too.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Giving a free mercenary that can found the Guild of the Nice instead of just founding it would be nice,

Well, that was originally the case, but the ai was running around with their free merc, never founding the guild. It was changed to auto-found to ensure it would be founded, however I think that this is one that wouldn't bother to be exclusive, but want to spread.

 

[Sarisin]

Playing my first game of Shadow (before technical problems noted in the FAQ thread), I am seeing the same problem with AI reacting to raging barbs.

I am playing Elohim, huge Fantasy (land) map, Monarch, 9 AI civs (default), Epic, raging barbs/aggAI, Wildlands, and Barb Cities.

I was just approaching turn 300 and five AI civs have been eliminated by the raging barbs leaving only Sidar, Calabim, Sheaim, Amurites and myself.

It did seem like the raging barb onslaught was definitely delayed coming only around turn 200. But, when it came, it featured barb Lizardmen in addition to the expected goblins and warriors.

The AI had expanded like crazy having 5-6 or more cities. Most had one or two warriors as defenders. When the barbs came, down they went.

So, again, if I ever get up and running, it looks like yet another Conquest Victory is in the works compliments of poor AI vs. raging barbs.

I have to say the game was challenging for me protecting my two cities and improvements as the barbs sent many units, including stacks of up to 10 units my way.

Oh yeah, in another unfortunate repeat of .25, there is a huge Bear population explosion in open territories and zero other animals, except for a few Elephants.

 

[ShadowDrgn]

Other Compassion civics are honestly not that interesting, which makes Sacrifice of the Weak a no brainer for any AV player.

That's the bigger problem in my opinion. Sacrifice the weak was nerfed to 4 unhealthiness and no longer gives you the slavery option for free, which were great changes, but protect the meek and public healers still both suck. This also makes the expansive trait not as useful.

 

[Teg_Navanis]

There should be some kind of warning before a civ finishes the altar of the Luonnotar (and wins the game). I think something along the lines of "most advanced altar of the Luonnotar" in the victory screen would be nice.

It is an important aspect of the game that the victory screen tells you (well in advance) who is about to win, so that you can react to the 'threat'. It's like in racing - it's much more fun/exciting if you can actually see your competitors and try to overtake them instead of running on your own, hoping that you're faster than them.

I'm calling this a balancing issue since a 'weak' civ won my last game. Had the other teams known that it was about to finish the altar, they could have crushed it in no time (this might also be an AI issue. The AI should behave the same way as if the civ was about to achieve a cultural victory. I don't consider this to be a priority though).

 

[Demus]

like how everyone declared war the moment someone is building the tower of mastery? yeah, should happen. still, imho it should only show once someone starts building the final altar, not before that point (not sure if this already occurs or not)

 

[Teg_Navanis]

Actually, this might already be implemented, since three out of five AI teams did declare war on him (I just didn't know why at that point). But he used this world spell to survive for a while:

Elohim- Sanctuary: Kicks all non-team units out of their borders and makes all non-team unable to enter the players lands for 30 turns

In hindsight, quite clever

 

[Seventh Star]

Has anyone been able to get the Circle of Gaelen to be founded? I played 300ish turns from the first event (willful apprentice) and the others never happened. Also, are we going to see more events involving the guilds other than CotD?

 

[sidamos]

Hm, im wondering, how many flurries are the elves allowed to build????

http://hades.at/flurry.jpg

this is no fun...

 

[Seventh Star]

Got gibbon the first time. I can safely say impersonate leader is the worst feature in shadow. Vs AI, you get screwed by it handling your civ. Haven't used it multiplayer, but jacking an ai civ seems suicidal and taking over another players civ is just wrong. Seriously getting to take over a human players civ? WTH?

 

[Seventh Star]

Sorry about that post. Having the computer kill off my civ kinda ticked me off.

 

[Broken Hawk]

Doesn't sound like fun.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Has anyone been able to get the Circle of Gaelen to be founded? I played 300ish turns from the first event (willful apprentice) and the others never happened. Also, are we going to see more events involving the guilds other than CotD?

I have not, I suspect a bug...
But yes, there will be more events!