FfH2 0.30 Balance Issues

[westamastaflash]

Oh, is there any way to know a city's crime rate? That would be very useful in deciding what buildings to build, whether you are trying to reduce the crime or get the Ratcatchers Guild's headquarters.

If you mouseover the city bar on the world map it appears in the little box on the left.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

ok. Thanks.

 

[Sureshot]

Currently whoever founds Empyrean typically founds Esus right after (or the other way around), which is a huge pain since theres no way to get the religion unless it spreads to you.
The AI who founds them both usually sticks with their old religion too so I rarely see either of the new religions in my games unless I rush them.

So two huge issues that are just making both religions pointless and nonexistent:
1. a single AI founding both Empyrean and Esus and adopting neither
2. no reasonable way to get the religion yourself after its been founded

1 happens because of Neutral AIs, like Khazad (and even Grigori can found them) in my games, founding both Empyrean and Esus, and adopting neither. This makes both religions unattainable except through waiting for a random spread. For Neutral AIs, there should be a tendency toward one or the other, but not both, or better yet, make it so you can't research either tech if you already have a state religion, or if thats too restrictive, then if you already have a state religion and its holy city.

2 happens because no disciple is given out on gaining the Honor tech (which is like the way all religions used to be, which was horrible), and because Esus' unit puts you in the situation where you can only spread it if you already have it as a state religion, so you're back to hoping it spreads to you. So these techs need to give units that can viably spread the religion to yourself.

 

[Tobbe_1]

Some thoughts:

I think the technology "engineering" combines too many positve effects:

especially granting a free engineer with the quite powerful wonder "guild of Hammers", which founds the guild...so with a single tech you get better specialists, a free forge in every city and a city where your upgrades are cheaper... simply TOO much.

Though it fits the flavour to put all these things into the tech engineering, i would recommend to move either the wonder or the free engineer to a diffrent tech.

Right now I often beeline for engineering, stop researching, upgrade my axeman to champions and beat down the AI... (on monarch)

After having played a few games (standard speed, more 300 rounds each), I still wait for ANY event concerning the guild of nine, the ratcatchers guild or the guild of hammers...i would like to see a little more action with the guilds...doesnt has to be of great impact, just for flavour...

 

[Breunor]

What difficulty are you playing on? Are you playing raging barbs or just normal? How many warriors are you building in your cities in preparation of orthus?

Because i'm just about to report the opposite problem. Monarch difficulty, raging barbs, barbarian world, wildlands. Orthus rushed my civ alone and killed himself after taking down a single bait warrior. The barbs themselves are weaklings that are still sending goblins after me while I have assasins. Animals are virtually non-existant. So far i've found a single bear camp, and no other animal types or units. Playing as svartalfar, this is annoying- I empty out multiple cities using HN units, but then the barbs walk right by them to raze farms or attack my units.

*edit*

also, to the person complaining about sacrifice the weak, It's a powerful civic because you cannot acquire it without also summoning hyborem into the world, which will convert all your land into hell terrain (which is detrimental). On a religion by religion basis it's no more powerful than, say, guardian of nature or social order (which kicks arse now- no unhappiness ever ftw?)

I also don't understand these barbatos issues. If he spawns near you, just move your settler 1 turn further away? then later you get a free XP farm, and after that a free death mana/item.

I lost to Orthus on my second game. He attacked with three other units, and had lots of upgrades. I played on Monarch, normal speed, Lakes, standard map size.

I'm not complaining, I do view that FFH has more randomness than normal BtS, so I recognize I'm going to lsoe some to bad draws and maybe win others.

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[Nikis-Knight]

2 happens because no disciple is given out on gaining the Honor tech

bug.

Currently whoever founds Empyrean typically founds Esus right after

Hrm, that's probably because they trade for way of wise/way of wicked after researching trade, meaning the second prereqs are unimportant here. I wonder if there is a way to mark some techs untradeable, and if that would be desireable on Way of ... techs.

After having played a few games (standard speed, more 300 rounds each), I still wait for ANY event concerning the guild of nine, the ratcatchers guild or the guild of hammers...i would like to see a little more action with the guilds...doesnt has to be of great impact, just for flavour...

Yes, more events are needed (and coming)

 

[Lance Dearnis]

Noble. In this case, it's also a slight matter of WHEN exactly Orthus comes.The worst time, really, is 27 turns after he shows up, right after he's picked up Combat V. I had six-eight warriors in the city, all fortified, a few with various promotions but none better then Combat II/Shock, and they got pounded into the dirt by Combat V/Shock Orthus. If Orthus actually rushes you early with only Combat I/II, then he's strength 8.4 or 9.8 abouts - not too much for a stack of warriors. If he shows at strength 15+, then you get into the case where you're going to get pounded. I did start spamming warriors when he showed up, for efficieincy's sake (The garrison bonus and lower production time, basically.)

And Barbatos' wraiths MOVE. You're still going to take it up the ass. See the whole contest about 'dueling with Barbatos right next to your cities' and see how hard it was for them when that's all they did. Orthus can be argued for to some degree, but Barbatos really is a problem that needs to be fixed as much as Acheron running around was, IMO.


Lastly, a note on Raging Barbs - judging from bug posts/other reports I've heard, while I haven't fooled around with it myself (And my box with Civ 4 on it isn't here, so I won't for about a month anyhow), it looks like that Raging Barbs is outright busted. I've never heard a report of it working right, although this might just be report bias. (You don't report things that aren't a problem.)

 

[Rutee]

Is there a reason why Altars of the Luonnatar don't show up in the Victory screen? I mean, it shows the final form, but that's a bit unhelpful. Shouldn't it show the highest stage and who's at it instead? I mean, you show individual Towers, so I dun think you're doing it for hidden-ness reasons..

 

[mindlar]

Some thoughts:
After having played a few games (standard speed, more 300 rounds each), I still wait for ANY event concerning the guild of nine, the ratcatchers guild or the guild of hammers...i would like to see a little more action with the guilds...doesnt has to be of great impact, just for flavour...

I have seen two events for the guild of the nine. The first gave me the option for a champion (which I couldn't get because I was Sheim) or an assassin (which I couldn't afford). The second gave either 2 archers with city guard or a water 1 adept (which didn't get the water 1 promotion).

Have occasionally seen an event for someone else saying "The guild of hammers may spread to a city of the ...", but never anything after that.

Still waiting to see the circle of gaelen get founded and see anything from the ratcatcher's guild.

 

[Senethro]

Hrm, that's probably because they trade for way of wise/way of wicked after researching trade, meaning the second prereqs are unimportant here. I wonder if there is a way to mark some techs untradeable, and if that would be desireable on Way of ... techs.

For a single previous version, wasn't it the case that you could only research one of Way of the Wicked/Way of the Wise?

 

[Breunor]

I posted this also on the bug forum, not sure if its a bug or a design intent, but the Larun spell Raging seas is too powerful. In my last game, it hit units on land also, and just devastated my empire, and I suspect it basically won the whole game. It may be 'only' be hitting units on the coast, but it is too much; I lost 2 of my 3 heroes.

Best wishes,

Breunor

PS I just reloaded -- it is hitting units not only on the coast but every unit.

 

[westamastaflash]

I posted this also on the bug forum, not sure if its a bug or a design intent, but the Larun spell Raging seas is too powerful. In my last game, it hit units on land also, and just devastated my empire, and I suspect it basically won the whole game. It may be 'only' be hitting units on the coast, but it is too much; I lost 2 of my 3 heroes.

Best wishes,

Breunor

PS I just reloaded -- it is hitting units not only on the coast but every unit.

Anything that is next to a coast gets hit. One of the perils of fighting Falamar or Hannah. Just be prepared for it.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Oy, here's a lesson not to learn the hard way--don't leave an un-upgraded adventurer by the coast with the Lanun in the game...

 

[Tobbe_1]

And some other thoghts:

-Great Library seems too strong. Two free specialist, which last for the whole game is quite good. But now it also offers another bonus...making this wonder almost a must have...furthermore it gives writing an enormous impact. Free sage , librararies and a must have wonder....right now i almost all the time beeline for writing...

My ideas:
- remove the boni from the GL and add another perhaps minor wonder that gives this bonus to specialists

- something has happened to the AI. I all of my games (monarch to emperor) the AI was WAY behind. I suspect the keyproblem is that they almost NEVER research Bronzeworking. In all of my games (ok, only 4) no civ had bronze working on turn 200! (normal speed)

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I would rather remove one of the free sages, personally.

 

[Breunor]

Anything that is next to a coast gets hit. One of the perils of fighting Falamar or Hannah. Just be prepared for it.

I guess the reason it was so tough in my game is that I was on an islands' map; the Larun was already in first place, but I was ready to win. There are very few units that aren't adjacent to the coast in the 'normal' course of business on this map; on an islands' map, there just aren't that many squares that aren't next to the coast in the first place.

When I thought about it, I realized that this Lanun spell's power is VERY dependent on the map type; on a Pangaea game, it probably isn't very strong.

So, I have a suggestion. The Lanun are already very, very powerful on Islands or archipelago maps and are weaker on a Pangaea map. Maybe their 'world' spell should have a balancing impact, instead of reinforcement impact. That is, for game reasons (although I recognize this may not be as good from a flavor standpoint) their world spell should kick ass on Pangaea and be weak on Archipelago. Giving them even MORE power on archipelago means we are practically playing at a higher difficulty level on this map.

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[onedreamer]

The Clan is too much penalized in research. -35% becomes really heavy after a while and the barbarian trait doesn't help as much. I would suggest giving the Clan a number of free military units support.

 

[Breunor]

Oy, here's a lesson not to learn the hard way--don't leave an un-upgraded adventurer by the coast with the Lanun in the game...

Does it matter if the units are upgraded? It didn't seem to, although I admit my strongest hero survived; I may have just gotten unlucky. If damage is based on 'raw' non-upgraded strength, the heroes are vulnerable. Note that both heroes were uninjured and one was fairly highly upgraded.

Unfortunately, not having the heroes on or adjacent to the coast meant they are pretty useless on this map script.

The REAL killer is if they are on transports. To be honest, I now know how to 'fool' the computer. I go out with a few good units on transports, make the Lanun AI use its spell, and get the heroes later. I didn't check, but I think the units on ships die at sea if their ship dies, even if there is extra capacity on other ships. So (I think) bringing extra ships doesn't help either. However, I think the destruction of ships at sea is closer to how I viewed the the design of the spell (which may be flawed).

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[Sarisin]

The Clan is too much penalized in research. -35% becomes really heavy after a while and the barbarian trait doesn't help as much. I would suggest giving the Clan a number of free military units support.

I agree. Add to this the fact that the AI Clan always seems to declare war on the barbs for some reason early in the game. This negates the positive part of the Barbarian trait while retaining the negative part. Just a wasted trait IMO.

 

[Sarisin]

I mentioned this before as a bug, but it never received a comment or change. Maybe it is just a balance issue.

When you summon Basium via the Mercurian Gate, you usually take over that city he appeared in.

My question is why, after taking over the city, are so many buildings eliminated and require building again. Some stick around, but some like an Elder Council, Oblisk, Market, Pagan Temple, etc are gone. Others like Temple of Kilmorph, Granary, Smokehouse, Siege Factory, are still there.

What determines what goes and requires re-building and what stays?

It seems to me in a peaceful takeover from an ally like this EVERY building should stay. If you conquer a city, OK, I can see starting over again from scratch...I think.

The other thing is why does Hyborem enter the world with 400 or more pts. (in my Epic games anyway), while Basium starts at 0? The Infernal often have more pts. than many of the AI civs that have been around since the start of the game. I know pts. don't mean much, but you would think both should start at 0.