FfH2 0.31 Bug Thread

[smjjames]

edit: I may have uploaded the wrong version of the file by accident, so I'll have to recheck this.

edit: I'm going to make a new custom game for this to make absolutely sure that there is nothing in connection with the savegames, although I could check the savegame first.

edit: I seem to have averted the crash with the ragnarok thing, but I still crashed a couple turns later. I wish I had something that would tell me WHY it is CTDing.....

argh, didn't work.

in the savegame below, I found that it crashes right after Perpentach builds prophecy of ragnarok, but that is if I build a city, I tried not building a city but building it after. However even if I built it after, it still crashed a few turns later.

There seems to be maybe one common factor in all this, the hell terrain, but how the heck would the terrain cause the crash???

 

[Sto]

I'm unable to load your save :

May be can you check by order these two ones with your save ? and tell me if the crash still occur ?

edit : attachments removed

 

[smjjames]

Well the first one caused a crash a few turns after the prophecy of ragnarok thing.

I just realized something, if someone has a different file, they might not get the crash where I would be getting the crash. That would explain why someone who tried to check it didn't get the crash. I'll try the second file in a min.

I checked both and they both crashed after a great bard was born. In the PM you asked if I was doing the latest, and I think you might be right, somehow I got the 'vanilla' .31 and it didn't have the patch. How do I check for sure though? other than actually getting the patch.

edit: still crashing. I uploaded the save (I had resaved it under a diff name, but it's the same one) and I uploaded a normal game just to make sure that those game saves are still downloadable.

edit: I removed the attatchments because it appears like I may have a bad download and the saves are not working.

 

[smjjames]

sorry for the double post, but yea, just thought that it would be better to make a new one because I'm doing a fresh start.

I'll upload a savegame to check if the savegame is working right because for some reason others couldn't earlier.

edit: hmm, it looks like the crash problem was solved, I still need to know whether the savegame issue is solved now.

 

[Candidus]

Archeron's city spawn on top of the pyre of the seraphic... ruining that event. Is there a greater chance for barb cities to be built on unique features, I know someone mentioned them building on Barbatos..

 

[Vorpal+5]

Does Kael took a break (not that he is not allowed doing so!), it seems patch E is on hold?

 

[xienwolf]

Yes, Kael is out for the week As things stand it does not look like there are any (solvable) major issues, so he shall probably begin working on Ice shortly after his return.

 

[Vorpal+5]

Oh no... I started FFH in 0.23 (long time lurker), and when people asked for AI improvements, it was rejected. Now you are telling me that no work on the AI will be done before the end of the complete cycle, which can take 1+ year. This is bad news.

And an excuse. each time someone asks for improvements on AI (especially spell AI), we got this one served: 'not all features are fixed, so our work would not be stable'. But I see there is a bad case of creeping feature syndroma instead. Sure it is more fun adding events and graveyards compared to working on the AI. - that is the real reason for me. The team don't feel like working on AI because it is a chore. But it has to be done. Most people play single player, and anyway for the few who are playing MP, OOS errors are so numerous it seems that this is not viable either.

 

[swinesteigersir]

Getting a random CtD on FfH 2031d. Just load it and end the turn. I've no idea what the problem is.

The crash occurs midgame, turn 32something.

Memory maybe? It's 24 Civs on Huge, I have more than 2gb RAM utilization enabled and Run 2,5 gb.

With 18 Civs it works fine on Gigantic maps in Rise of Mankind, so I guess the bug might be something else.

 

[Jean Elcard]

Getting a random CtD on FfH 2031d. Just load it and end the turn. I've no idea what the problem is.

The crash occurs midgame, turn 32something.

Memory maybe? It's 24 Civs on Huge, I have more than 2gb RAM utilization enabled and Run 2,5 gb.

With 18 Civs it works fine on Gigantic maps in Rise of Mankind, so I guess the bug might be something else.

Tried to load your game, but there is definitely something wrong with it, because it crashes everytime I try. Are you really running FFH 0.31 with patch "d" or some other maybe modded version?

 

[swinesteigersir]

Tried to load your game, but there is definitely something wrong with it, because it crashes everytime I try. Are you really running FFH 0.31 with patch "d" or some other maybe modded version?

I also have "Fall Further" installed. CtD wise it shouldn't matter. I had CtD even before that, which is why I installed FF in the first place.

Sorry for the blunder. Well, the problem remains I guess.

 

[Jean Elcard]

I also have "Fall Further" installed. CtD wise it shouldn't matter. I had CtD even before that, which is why I installed FF in the first place.

Sorry for the blunder. Well, the problem remains I guess.

Installed Fall Further for 0.31d and tried again. No crash while loading anymore. Fine so far. Ended the turn like you said and ... no crash for me (tried three times). Maybe the crash for you is somehow connected to the undercouncil propositions popping up at this turn. I don't think RAM is the problem: 2 GB it is for me as well.

 

[rusty217]

Oh no... I started FFH in 0.23 (long time lurker), and when people asked for AI improvements, it was rejected. Now you are telling me that no work on the AI will be done before the end of the complete cycle, which can take 1+ year. This is bad news.

And an excuse. each time someone asks for improvements on AI (especially spell AI), we got this one served: 'not all features are fixed, so our work would not be stable'. But I see there is a bad case of creeping feature syndroma instead. Sure it is more fun adding events and graveyards compared to working on the AI. - that is the real reason for me. The team don't feel like working on AI because it is a chore. But it has to be done. Most people play single player, and anyway for the few who are playing MP, OOS errors are so numerous it seems that this is not viable either.

That excuse is true though.... Ice is yet to be done, try checking out the Illians and seeing their complete lack of features....

No point improving AI if features are not complete or may be changed (such as summoning and sorcery merge).

 

[smjjames]

could someone please check if the save can be loaded since Sto was having that problem and I went and did a reinstall of FfH and the patch. It seems like the crash issue is fixed, but I'm doing a full game as the shealm (I know someone said that they are a challenge, but I want to try them out) rather than a custom game and then get the infernals later on to see if it still works. However, if the save game still can't be loaded or something, then something is wrong, but if it's fine, then most likely the strange CTD is fixed.

 

[Goodgimp]

Oh no... I started FFH in 0.23 (long time lurker), and when people asked for AI improvements, it was rejected. Now you are telling me that no work on the AI will be done before the end of the complete cycle, which can take 1+ year. This is bad news.

And an excuse. each time someone asks for improvements on AI (especially spell AI), we got this one served: 'not all features are fixed, so our work would not be stable'. But I see there is a bad case of creeping feature syndroma instead. Sure it is more fun adding events and graveyards compared to working on the AI. - that is the real reason for me. The team don't feel like working on AI because it is a chore. But it has to be done. Most people play single player, and anyway for the few who are playing MP, OOS errors are so numerous it seems that this is not viable either.

You can call it an excuse, but it's one that's very valid. What if they had spent months teaching the AI to use the 0.30 magic system, only to have it completely torn out and redone in 0.31? That's a whole lot of wasted time and limited development resources.

AI should _always_ be left for last. More developers need to learn that.

 

[·Imhotep·]

And now I'm getting a CTD. Save game is attached, just hit enter.

Imhotep

Any chance anyone could confirm or even solve my CTD problem from page 16, post 320 ?

 

[Yaotzin]

Crashes for me too, no solution though

 

[Vorpal+5]

You can call it an excuse, but it's one that's very valid. What if they had spent months teaching the AI to use the 0.30 magic system, only to have it completely torn out and redone in 0.31? That's a whole lot of wasted time and limited development resources.

AI should _always_ be left for last. More developers need to learn that.

Thanks for enlightening me

I beg to differ though, many things can be done which are permanent once coded, but are still not (coded). Like the base algorithms telling the AI how to seek desert for the Spring spell, ruins for the life spell, forest for bloom. Or that mages with damages dealing spells should be concentrated in the biggest stacks and should never travel alone. Or that heroes should never travel alone, with a minimum stack strength based on the enemy around (have you heard of the notion of threat map? It is an AI concept).

I could develop, but won't. I'm sure you don't want to see my point.

 

[Vorpal+5]

On a major general trend: This is a mod. By essence there is no urgent deadline, contrary to a commercial product. It is always felt as cool to add features. It is always easy to find things to add (and pile on), tweak, modify.

The things of least interest are pushed last also.

Conclusion, the Spell AI is never worked upon. You can say it is necessary to wait for the finalization of this mod (out since some months I think - so we wait what? one year, two years, three years, while 90% of the players are only playing against the AI which make no usage of the most powerful component of this mod, magic? striking paradox...). I say it is not worked upon because it is felt as a chore to do even the most basic algorithms, even the ones which don't become obsolete.

It is the right of the team, they are volunteers. But I feel some honesty is needed. That they don't tell us that they are not working on the AI only because it can't be done. But also because it is not that exciting for them compared to adding (choose one) graveyards, new creatures, forts & citadels, guilds) etc.

It reminds me of Illwinter and the Dominions serie. An awesome heroic fantasy game (poor graphics though) where you can PBEM with up to 15 players, with hundred of spells and more than one thousand creatures. The dev seldom work on the AI (well a bit, this is a commercial product so they feel a bit more pressure). But they keep adding what please them: races, units, spells.

 

[JJR]

could someone please check if the save can be loaded since Sto was having that problem and I went and did a reinstall of FfH and the patch. It seems like the crash issue is fixed, but I'm doing a full game as the shealm (I know someone said that they are a challenge, but I want to try them out) rather than a custom game and then get the infernals later on to see if it still works. However, if the save game still can't be loaded or something, then something is wrong, but if it's fine, then most likely the strange CTD is fixed.

Ok, I tried your new save game and no crashes..even after switching to the infernals...although the last CTD you reported a few pages ago didn't crash for me either.... I still think its either something has been modified in your game (from some other mod) or its your system/OS causing the problems (maybe an application conflict??).