OH, I forgot to add: I settled up to the timber line, border cities like a DEW--they can't grow much, or fast, but they are there, and make my cultural border. The AI settles the ice and tundra. Make it all ice, and they can't grow beyond pop 1. Of course, it it territory, and that counts for score...
- Thread starter Marla_Singer
- Start date
Blakis Maximus
Chieftain
Is it possible to make tundra impossible to build a city on, like mountains? Anybody know?
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
That's an EXCELLENT question Blakis !!! you're a genius !
I don't think it's possible to make it so with the editor... but maybe I can ask to people I know if they could do that.
I totally agree with you, if it wasn't possible to build cities on tundra, it would solve MANY problems. well anyway, gonna check that, thanx again
I don't think it's possible to make it so with the editor... but maybe I can ask to people I know if they could do that.
I totally agree with you, if it wasn't possible to build cities on tundra, it would solve MANY problems. well anyway, gonna check that, thanx again
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
A possibility would be to add a new terrain, a copy of mountains, to put tundra graphics, to call it tundra, and to put tundra spec. and then, to delet the older tundra terrain... I wonder if it would be possible to make it so... tough job. 
Blakis Maximus
Chieftain
Maybe it's possible to swap the mountain image with the tundra image to make it possible to build on (what looks like) mountains but not (what looks like) tundra. This is an imperfect solution but I think I would rather have the AI building on mountains rather than tundra.
Come to think of it, this might be a worse idea than I first thought. This would probably allow catapults and such to travel on mountains now and not tundra. They probably shouldn't be able to go on either though...
Come to think of it, this might be a worse idea than I first thought. This would probably allow catapults and such to travel on mountains now and not tundra. They probably shouldn't be able to go on either though...
stonecoldt
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2001
- Messages
- 7
Hi, Marla. Great map! I played a huge game last week as the English and had a lot of fun. Yeah, the AI did settle greenland but it didn't matter, none of those cities really amounted to anything. I was able to settle Australia, and parts of S. America, and N. Africa. I recommend the English for an interesting worldwide naval game. The Chinese and Indians were my principal enemy. By the way, I think starting close to Europe is a big advantage because you can trade with all the other civs.
I started another game as the Aztecs, but I'm not sure if they're really playable. The problem is that they don't have any resources - to get iron you either have to take over washington or go all the way to the bottom of S. America. Same with horses - they're pretty much owned by the Iroquoi. So your only option to keep *those* civs from destroying you (especially the Americans) is to overwhelm them with jaguar warriors and take them out early before they can deploy spearman in numbers - which really isn't fair, because you're taking advantage of your knowledge of their starting position to kill them, and still unsatisfying as you end up with a game in which by 2000BC you have all of N & S America to yourself, giving you a huge lead.
I might try playing that again and leave the Americans off the map so that I have a chance to get iron, but i just thought i'd bring it up. Maybe the aztec's need more resources, i don't know.
I started another game as the Aztecs, but I'm not sure if they're really playable. The problem is that they don't have any resources - to get iron you either have to take over washington or go all the way to the bottom of S. America. Same with horses - they're pretty much owned by the Iroquoi. So your only option to keep *those* civs from destroying you (especially the Americans) is to overwhelm them with jaguar warriors and take them out early before they can deploy spearman in numbers - which really isn't fair, because you're taking advantage of your knowledge of their starting position to kill them, and still unsatisfying as you end up with a game in which by 2000BC you have all of N & S America to yourself, giving you a huge lead.
I might try playing that again and leave the Americans off the map so that I have a chance to get iron, but i just thought i'd bring it up. Maybe the aztec's need more resources, i don't know.
Whatever is done to the map there will always be some Civ's that are harder to play than others. In fact it would be interesting to hear from people who have played the map about who they feel are the easiest and hardest Civ's, not (I hasten to add) so that we can try to balance them (as you can never truly balance them all) but so that present this map to future players with the list of Civ's ranked in order of difficulty
what do you all think?
Since the resources and luxuries are generally placed where they really are, If you play a historical starting point, you either have to choose one you know can win, or do some fantastic trading. I am reminded of how hard it must have been for Japan to mount WWII with no iron , no coal, no oil.. I think it was only the industrial capacity of US to turn out massive numbers of ships, bombers, and tanks etc (plus perhaps a little deterent from nuclear 
) that over came thier will to conquer.
When I played my last game I actuall seeded England with a little extra luxuries, because I wanted to play england. In fact, I decided just to take the random start position, American, and live with it.
I see two real possibilities here. One, take a historical position, know that the odds are against you, and make it happen anyway.
two take a random position, and think of the named civs not as people, but as types of civs, and play your favorite type from a random position.
) that over came thier will to conquer.When I played my last game I actuall seeded England with a little extra luxuries, because I wanted to play england. In fact, I decided just to take the random start position, American, and live with it.
I see two real possibilities here. One, take a historical position, know that the odds are against you, and make it happen anyway.
two take a random position, and think of the named civs not as people, but as types of civs, and play your favorite type from a random position.
Well I did say I'd report back on my experience of the latest version, so it seems somewhat fitting to mention it here considering I too played the English. This was actually my first game playing with the Monarcy difficulty level. (Please don't laugh!) My rivals were: France, Germany, Russia, China, India, Egypt, Persia, Iroquois, Japan, Aztecs and the Zulus.
I "fixed the starting locations" of the Civilizations, and I quickly established London, then Plymouth to the South-West and Glasgow up in Scotland. I eventually crossed over into Ireland and founded Donegal in the north (my mate's girlfriend comes from there, you see) and Kilarny to the South-West.
Moving over to continental Europe I built Brittany in Brittany, and Amsterdam in The Netherlands (darn Russians took both eventually, though my culture grabbed Brittany back - much to my delight).
I had a very slow start, and it was really hard to spread. I did colonise Iceland eventually, but was trying to focus on re-establishing my own personal homeland of New Zealand as an English colony. Perhaps starting Sydney in Australia on the way. But as fate had it I had to make a hard choice to avoid Australasia completely. It would have been quite a challenge and I felt disheartened after losing a galley in the Indian ocean.
I settled for a few colonies in North-West Africa (Casablanca, and the off-shore Port Rosary). And finally south of the Amazon in South America I founded Port Elizabeth, which I intended to be the eventual location of my Forbidden palace - so I could support a "New England" in Eastern South America.
I was rather successful in doing that too. Founding the further cities in these South American Colonies including Montrose, Beaufort, Royale, Murchison and many others. You must have noticed I like putting a bit of effort into the names of my cities!
Congratulations! Maybe I should try again. Actually, I haven't finished this game. By the 1400's, though my turns took me about 20 seconds to execute, the rival civs take at least 5 minutes, maybe even ten to do theres. And I just don't have quite enough patience to see this game mature into Modern day.
Yes the game has got to the point where I'm starting to dominate the Atlantic with Ironclads, so I can see it could get very interesting in the naval respect. I kinda agree about the "trading in Europe" point, but actually it seemed every other Civ seemed to be much more agreeable about swapping techs with each other, than they were with me. I had a rather good run of trading luck though after I established contact with the Iroquois. I sold contact with them, the Aztecs and the world maps I got from them both to my Eurasian Civ counterparts for a veritable fortune at the time - finally catching up with them all and giving me the big boost I needed for my South American expansion. I love that trading aspect - thank you Firaxis!
My main rivals were Russia, and Japan. Japan invaded Iceland, in an almost conceivable adventurous-Eskimo style (of course, I got it back!) The Russians just grumbled a lot, and swallowed my lovely Amsterdam, much to my annoyance. I wanted my civs to have "coffeehouses" (and tulips!) too!
I think (unless a Middle Earth map appears) I might try playing this map again, but with fewer rival civs. Maybe the lag won't be so bad like that. Maybe I could try random locations too. If you've got that "historically connected civs start together" option checked (or whatever it is called) then it could be quite interesting indeed. It would be like embracing a new Earth, without completely disregarding the history of our own version of Earth. I like trying to link it in more with our own histories.
Marla, I agree with the idea of limiting growth in Greenland. It just doesn't look right. Even if they do try and make it nicer looking by planting forests!
Oh and, I haven't mentioned this yet (I think?) but I really appreciate the effort you've made with New Zealand. I haven't had first hand experience of establishing any cities on it yet though, but it does look "about right" and I haven't noticed anything that makes me want to make any suggestions (yet!) But, for sure - thank you for making a good go of it.
Ash
Oh I mean Eastern, sorry. (Have now edited it too, after realising that of course.. I can indeed edit posts!) I've started to think of it just as "New England" rather than South America, so it's hard to me to readjust to the real world.
Hmm guess who's been playing too much Civ3?!
There's such a thing as too much? Sounds like heresy considering this is the "CivFanatics" site!
Ash
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
Here is the result of my latest test
Okay so here are the changes:
1. Settler requirement: 60 shields and 3 people
Instead of before: 30 shields and 2 people
I've tested with only 40 shields and 3 people, it keeps the AI to build cities really fast.
Actually it makes the game a lot more interesting since cities are a lot more valuable (harder to build) and then, the interest of devellopment is more about improving cities than expanding.
2. Tundra doesn't produce food anymore, I haven't the time to test that since I've ended the game at 0 A.D (it was just to test changes, it took me already a lot of time !)
3. A new unit has been added: Pirogue (since we find a better name)
It's a unit available only for England, Japan and Rome.
Characteristics:
- Movement: 2
- Can carry 1 land unit
- Cost: 20 shields
- Tech required: Pottery
- Upgrade to: Galley (Mapmaking)
- Art Graphic: Galley (well I'm not a Photoshop buff)
That's great, I've tested it with Japan, and I settled in Korea befor China. Japan can finally become a strong power on the Pacific West (yes it's the west side of the pacific!).
If I not only give it to Japan and England but also to Rome, it's because it gives the opportunity to Rome to settle in Maghreeb (Carthage). Thus, it allows a devellopment of Rome around the Med sea and Egypt has a competitor on the run to West Africa ressources.
When everything will be ready, I'll put on this thread a beta version to be tested by volunteers... (I hope some of you will help me).
NB: the new unit requests few changes on .txt files, I will certainly add a saved copy of the original file to the map self extractor.
Okay so here are the changes:
1. Settler requirement: 60 shields and 3 people
Instead of before: 30 shields and 2 people
I've tested with only 40 shields and 3 people, it keeps the AI to build cities really fast.
Actually it makes the game a lot more interesting since cities are a lot more valuable (harder to build) and then, the interest of devellopment is more about improving cities than expanding.
2. Tundra doesn't produce food anymore, I haven't the time to test that since I've ended the game at 0 A.D (it was just to test changes, it took me already a lot of time !)
3. A new unit has been added: Pirogue (since we find a better name)
It's a unit available only for England, Japan and Rome.
Characteristics:
- Movement: 2
- Can carry 1 land unit
- Cost: 20 shields
- Tech required: Pottery
- Upgrade to: Galley (Mapmaking)
- Art Graphic: Galley (well I'm not a Photoshop buff)
That's great, I've tested it with Japan, and I settled in Korea befor China. Japan can finally become a strong power on the Pacific West (yes it's the west side of the pacific!).
If I not only give it to Japan and England but also to Rome, it's because it gives the opportunity to Rome to settle in Maghreeb (Carthage). Thus, it allows a devellopment of Rome around the Med sea and Egypt has a competitor on the run to West Africa ressources.
When everything will be ready, I'll put on this thread a beta version to be tested by volunteers... (I hope some of you will help me).
NB: the new unit requests few changes on .txt files, I will certainly add a saved copy of the original file to the map self extractor.
Kal-el
Deity
I have spent the past week editing Marla's Map. I have focused on the asthetics of a few of the regions. I have also added a few resources to some areas to help out some of the civs (mainly the Iriquois - horses in North America - I realize this is not historically accurate but for game play I think it is important that they are able to build their UU).
My main areas of concentration have been the Great Lakes Region, Greenland, Iceland, the British Isles, the Iberian Peninsula, the Italian Peninsula, Northern Africa, and the Japanese Islands. I have also added alot more forest to the map and thrown in a few more barbarians to add some spice to the mix.
I have posted some pictures of these locations in Paul saunder's thread "Realistic Starting Nations Scenario"
I will post a couple of pictures before and after so people can decide whether they want to download this file or not.
Here is the map. If you have already downloaded the latest version of Marla's Map with Vonotar's civ placement utility this map will work with it.
After doing some editing I have moved this map to its own thread.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12771
My main areas of concentration have been the Great Lakes Region, Greenland, Iceland, the British Isles, the Iberian Peninsula, the Italian Peninsula, Northern Africa, and the Japanese Islands. I have also added alot more forest to the map and thrown in a few more barbarians to add some spice to the mix.
I have posted some pictures of these locations in Paul saunder's thread "Realistic Starting Nations Scenario"
I will post a couple of pictures before and after so people can decide whether they want to download this file or not.
Here is the map. If you have already downloaded the latest version of Marla's Map with Vonotar's civ placement utility this map will work with it.
After doing some editing I have moved this map to its own thread.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12771
Kal-el
Deity
Kal-el
Deity
Here is the Great Lakes Region on my edited version of Marla's Map.
Kal-el
Deity
Kal-el
Deity
Kal-el
Deity
Kal-el
Deity
Marla,
What do you think? Hope you like the changes.
I understand that I have used plains in areas that maybe should be grassland but I was going more for asthetics.
I also got rid of a lot of the sea and coast tiles to make it more difficult to cross the oceans.
kal-el
What do you think? Hope you like the changes.
I understand that I have used plains in areas that maybe should be grassland but I was going more for asthetics.
I also got rid of a lot of the sea and coast tiles to make it more difficult to cross the oceans.
kal-el
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
Here is the result of my latest test
Okay so here are the changes:
1. Settler requirement: 60 shields and 3 people
Instead of before: 30 shields and 2 people
I've tested with only 40 shields and 3 people, it keeps the AI to build cities really fast.
Actually it makes the game a lot more interesting since cities are a lot more valuable (harder to build) and then, the interest of devellopment is more about improving cities than expanding.
2. Tundra doesn't produce food anymore, I haven't the time to test that since I've ended the game at 0 A.D (it was just to test changes, it took me already a lot of time !)
3. A new unit has been added: Pirogue (since we find a better name)
It's a unit available only for England, Japan and Rome.
Characteristics:
- Movement: 2
- Can carry 1 land unit
- Cost: 20 shields
- Tech required: Pottery
- Upgrade to: Galley (Mapmaking)
- Art Graphic: Galley (well I'm not a Photoshop buff)
That's great, I've tested it with Japan, and I settled in Korea befor China. Japan can finally become a strong power on the Pacific West (yes it's the west side of the pacific!).
If I not only give it to Japan and England but also to Rome, it's because it gives the opportunity to Rome to settle in Maghreeb (Carthage). Thus, it allows a devellopment of Rome around the Med sea and Egypt has a competitor on the run to West Africa ressources.
NB: the new unit requests few changes on .txt files, I have added a copy of original files in the zipfile.
Thanx to download this beta version, I've tested it 'till 0 AD so it should not have bugs (I've built both pirogues and settlers, nothing happened)
Your comments on changes are very important to me. thanx again for everything.
It's important to read the readme file
Okay so here are the changes:
1. Settler requirement: 60 shields and 3 people
Instead of before: 30 shields and 2 people
I've tested with only 40 shields and 3 people, it keeps the AI to build cities really fast.
Actually it makes the game a lot more interesting since cities are a lot more valuable (harder to build) and then, the interest of devellopment is more about improving cities than expanding.
2. Tundra doesn't produce food anymore, I haven't the time to test that since I've ended the game at 0 A.D (it was just to test changes, it took me already a lot of time !)
3. A new unit has been added: Pirogue (since we find a better name)
It's a unit available only for England, Japan and Rome.
Characteristics:
- Movement: 2
- Can carry 1 land unit
- Cost: 20 shields
- Tech required: Pottery
- Upgrade to: Galley (Mapmaking)
- Art Graphic: Galley (well I'm not a Photoshop buff)
That's great, I've tested it with Japan, and I settled in Korea befor China. Japan can finally become a strong power on the Pacific West (yes it's the west side of the pacific!).
If I not only give it to Japan and England but also to Rome, it's because it gives the opportunity to Rome to settle in Maghreeb (Carthage). Thus, it allows a devellopment of Rome around the Med sea and Egypt has a competitor on the run to West Africa ressources.
NB: the new unit requests few changes on .txt files, I have added a copy of original files in the zipfile.
Thanx to download this beta version, I've tested it 'till 0 AD so it should not have bugs (I've built both pirogues and settlers, nothing happened)
Your comments on changes are very important to me. thanx again for everything.
It's important to read the readme file
Hey Marla,
I've been playing a game with your last non-beta version, but with a few tweaks. The most notable is that I turned most of Greenland, Northern North America, and those Northern Russian islands into snow-capped mountains to prevent AI Civ settlements. So far, so good and I think it's a lot better.
I allowed for a settlement on the very southern tip of Greenland, which my Celtic British peoples settled. But otherwise, everything else is snow-capped mountains and no rival civ has made any awkward cities on it. Much better
Thought you'd like to know my results.
Ash
I've been playing a game with your last non-beta version, but with a few tweaks. The most notable is that I turned most of Greenland, Northern North America, and those Northern Russian islands into snow-capped mountains to prevent AI Civ settlements. So far, so good and I think it's a lot better.
I allowed for a settlement on the very southern tip of Greenland, which my Celtic British peoples settled. But otherwise, everything else is snow-capped mountains and no rival civ has made any awkward cities on it. Much better
Thought you'd like to know my results.
Ash
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