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Final Fixes Reborn

Discussion in 'Rise from Erebus Modmod' started by Ronkhar, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

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    at the moment yes, the reason for that is that there is a random game-breaking bug lurking in the current svn version and i don't want to do a proper release with this thing in it. As soon as this is fixed, i will do a release.
    In the meantime, if you want to test the latest version without bothering with svn, you can download it here : https://sourceforge.net/p/ashesoferebus/code/HEAD/tarball
     
  2. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

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    another small teaser for next version .

    In addition to the crime stuff, i've been reorganizing the lair results.
    Two objectives here :
    1) give a bit more flavor to the results, so that different lairs get different kinds of results

    2) give more balanced results ( the early lairs will only have minor results, their upgrades minor and moderate, and the final upgrade minor, moderate and major results). If you still want the most important results early on, the Explorable UF are here for that, you can only have major results, good or bad, when exploring them.

    And i'm taking suggestions for new results, i specifically require results that would be unique to certain lairs but i'll take all suggestions :

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...6LfXamjRXsfGzed9EaZP12QiY/edit#gid=1440424943
     
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  3. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    I tested the new "crime".
    It's interesting... but I didn't see it coming :)
    so suddenly I got 15 :mad: in my 11size city.
    Happily, being grigory, I had many units with free xp and I could promote a few to "Constable 1-2-3"... it helped.

    but IMO the growth rate of crime seems to be important
     
  4. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

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    it's 2 per turn per population. i've already decreased a bit from the original setup. I could make it only start at pop 3 or something
     
  5. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    well, my point is the following (I'll have to play-test to balance)
    +2/pop.
    tribunal/dungeon give -10 each but they are late. so you quickly reach huge crime issues.
    it really seems to target mainly tall empires, and not so much wide empires. (how will Kurios do ?)

    to combat the crime, you need to have a unit specialised in crime fighting... -2 / -4 / -6 :-12 with 3promotions... but it's hard to get xp when you have no combat-useful promotions.
    and using units, and spending promotions, just to combat crime seems sad..


    I randombly thought about other means to make crime fighting less of an issue :
    instead, maybe combat III IV & V could each give -2 /-3 /-4 ? (or something?) (or each combat promotion /or drill ? gives -1crime/turn
    or maybe City Defense ? or Guardsmen ?

    or maybe melee units could get a free "crew promotion" : police (-2crime-50%xp) / military (+5%attstr +1gold/turn) / normal (thus, we'll be able to have "cost effective fight against crime "

    maybe culture level could reduce the crime by x% or by -4/-5 /culture level/turn ? i don't know the balance.
     
  6. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

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    Calling Dungeon late is a bit wrong, masonry is a tier 1 tech.

    Culture level is a good idea, maybe city defense too, but then no one would take patrol. I could also put a base crime fighting value for having garrisoned units.
     
  7. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    well, not late then, maybe expensive ?
    The issue with patrol is that it occupies expensive xp of units (3 levels) that become thus weak versus their level...
    Normally we already want units in the city to Defend... so you want to give them combat or CD...

    Another way to put it : for solving a city issue, you propose us to use a Unit solution.
    This is a first.
    Normally there is only 1 civic that makes use of units to solve happy issues in city ; otherwise, units are for military, and cities manages themselves using ressource, commerce and buildings.

    I cannot currently test it's balance rightfully as I'm grigori, and with quests, I quickly get lvl 4 warriors with patrol III to garrison my cities, so it's currently easy.

    Some other 4 random ideas that might help make the "use units to fight crime" less hurtfull (for me):
    - Combat I-V & City Defense I-II and Drill I-III, Guardsman each give -1 crime fighting : thus, garrisoned units help fighting crime, in small bits (but you still need many units in city for crime fighting) .
    - Use the promotion "Patrol" you have but as a 1 time specialisation, after combat II or drill II: -8 crime. ( can combine with idea above for - 10 with C2-D2)... 1 promotion only for dedicating a unit against crime fighting. (like we have 1 promotion for guarding, 1 promotion for pillaging...Etc)

    - Keep patrol as is... but
    °°° Each Patrol promotion gives +10% against recon, higher chance of defense against recon: Police force are useful to guard and survive against assassins... (but not sniper) (but as it's 10% instead of 20% for combat, it might still not twart assassination too much)
    °°° Only 2 Patrol promotions : -4 & -6 (currently the 1st patrol only alleviates 1 pop !)
    °°° Patrol III (or II?) gives "no-cost" to the unit : it becomes free from supply cost : at least this unit you specialise doesn't cost you much.


    Does Unyielding Order .... removes crime ?
    Does Order temple reduce crime ?
    Maybe Templar could get -2 crime ?
    Maybe CoEsus could alleviate crime issues ? (but not by removing crime, only by removing some negative aspects, or by increasing the positive aspects of crime)
     
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  8. Nor'easter

    Nor'easter Chieftain

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    I don't yet have any recommendations relating to the new crime feature, still need to play a bit more, since I'm still in my first game with the new system. I had one city get hit really badly by crime, and I didn't realize it was happening until I noticed that the city population had fallen to 1. I checked the city screen and saw a crime rate well over 1000, with several Crimes increasing unhealthiness and unhappiness. So I built every crime-reducing building I could and gradually the crime rate came down, the Crimes disappeared, and the city started functioning normally. Was a useful lesson, and in subsequent new cities I started building Dungeons, Courthouses, etc. early on.

    As I said, probably need to play more under the new system before being able to make any useful recommendations, I think.
     
  9. Edish

    Edish Chieftain

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    First of all – awesome work with the new version. You sir rock - I can tell you how much I love playing this game right now.

    Comments on 336 – Early Wraiths kill AI (and me). In the new version it seems that Wraiths spawn quite frequently very early, and kills AI. A 6(+3 death) Wraith kills everything early game. I just lost Elohim at around turn 100 to one, and my crazed Swordman which wandered into Svartalfar lands took down their capital in one battle, as a single Wraith had taken out every single warrior in good order, including burnt their city second biggest city. My Swordman was quickly massacred the next turn, and the Wraith continued his merry genocide.

    Some turns later TWO more pop down from the north and destroys my main army, and only spamming Fawns saved me. The skeleton – Spectre – Wraith evolution should maybe be toned down?

    Crime – the biggie. Impressive setup! My main concern is two fold.

    1: The early game now becomes ENTIRELY about mitigating crime. Everything from research order (need that courthouse before EVERYTHING) to build que (bee line to training yard or Archery range to get some promotions for new cities) to early expansion (no hammers to build an army for anything expect policing) to micro growth (no more pumping up cities with animals, to fast growth is a killer).

    2: It’s a little less fun I must admit. The main problem is that the crime stays when the city destroys itself. A city can end up with 1100 crime and be size one, making it almost impossible to get down due to Outbreak that gives +30 crime. Almost better to destroy the city and start from scratch…

    There needs to be some balancing.

    Proposal one: Crime should only be able go to a maximum level of pop*100. So a size 5 city can have 500 crime, and so on. This also works lore-wise – as city descend into chaos, the rioters die or flee. Thus going from size 10 to 5 automatically brings crime down to 500, but if you don’t mitigate the rise-rate, it will descend into chaos again when and the loop continues.

    Proposal two: (Needs balancing) Every promotion gives -1 crime. It makes little sense that posting an entire army in a crime-ridden cesspool of a city has no effect unless there is a special promotion. This also works lore-wise. The great hero (or large army) arrives in town, and the rascals hid in the shadows afraid to come out. This police-promoted units will stay behind when the army moves out, but they suck at general combat so you leave your cities exposed. It could be that the police-promoted units give their effect straight away, while normal promotions crime reducing effect scale up starting from 0% to 100% over 10 turns (Lore description; needs to get organized, identify criminal networks takes time etc)

    Proposal three: Going back to Alpha Centauri – you could nerve staple those pesky drones in dire situations. When everything has gone to hell, and you have 1000 crime for a starving city there should be an option to institute martial law. It could work by sending an equal amount of units to a city as there is people (so 5 units for a 5 city town). EITHER this stops new crimes being committed (thus stemming the flood of new angry citizens and gives you a chance to deal with what has already happened) OR leaving the army fortified for X (1 turn per 100?) amount of turns resets the crime timer (lore: the army spend months rooting out every single element of sedation and corruption), if the city grows during these X turn, you need to send in more troops to continue the reset timer.


    Third comment (just flavor): It seems that lair results are less “fun” now. Not a single item but plenty of fur coats early game. Getting an early jewel (10% domination) is really fun as you can find yourself with really fun units.

    Fourth comment: I really hate the "no-one" return lair result, maybe make it so that the lair never disappear from that event, and you can send down a unit to try to rescue the first one, maybe getting another one trapped, or saving both?

    Proposal for new item: Scroll of town portal. Works as Hunter’s prize, but is a one time charge. Would be really fun to use in a pinch for a hero or to retrieve a hunter trapped between civilizations that refuse open borders – it just not fun having unit trapped for the entirety of a game when they can shuttle back animals.
     
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  10. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

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    ok, that part is actually intended. i really want to up the synergy between units and cities. Having units that sap or boost yields and commerces, and other city stats.
    On the dungeon, i could decrease its cost a bit.

    -Combat no, city defense and guardsman maybe.
    -patrol will stay as a promotion line
    - Yeah, definitely agree for a bonus against recon ( well, rogue when i actually separate the two unitlines, but in the meantime, recon is good)

    Unyielding Order decreases crime a lot, as does Order temple. Templar is a good idea, and Esus is definitely going to have some specific bonuses (basically, unique versions of crimes that will be much more positive). It just wasn't part of the first pass on the mechanic.


    i wasn't aware it was this bad. I'll definitely look into it.
    Yeah, it definitely needs balancing. Some of the crimes have a population prereq. I could probably generalize that, so that small cities get no-to-minor maluses. Could also make it so that the crime rate per pop only starts at pop 5 or so. Would delay crime as a mid-life city crisis.
    Martial law could be an option as a city action. i'll think about it
    yeah i did a rebalance or the lair results to prevent really game breaking results, and also help the ai avoid getting wiped by deadly lairs. i may have been a bit too harsh on certain positive results. i will do a second pass at it. Some lairs do lack some specific results too and could use more for flavor.

    that's a good idea and i have an existing tool that could work for that. i'll look at whether it's adapted or need tweaks.

    that could work.
     
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  11. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Personal opinion: In a perfect game the chance of an AI being wiped out early by any random event, barbarian spawn etc. aside from Orthus and the like should be 0.
     
  12. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

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    agreed, which is why i did the lair rebalance
     
  13. Edish

    Edish Chieftain

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    Hello, I have written a bunch of lore pieces to the new crime system, I aim to do one for every crime - and when that is finished (and if there is a demand) I can write for whatever else needs writing, any suggestions welcome.

    Here are the first ones - love some feedback.

    Update: Added Crime - unethical experiment

    Spoiler Crime - Outbreak :
    As one of the lizardkin in the city, life had not been easy. Sure, the Elohim were renowned for their tolerance and pity. But in all earnest, humans are smelly, discolored and damp – compared to Azzar’s kin’s smooth and shiny exterior, with scales colored to match any jewel or shiny trinket sold in the dwarven quarter. Of course, the humans, elves and other skinlings in the city over time developed a jealousy. After all, they were only mammals. Azzar had been one of the first lizardkin to join the city watch, what better place to learn how to protect oneself. In the barracks there had been less abuse and taunting then on the streets. His talent with bow and spear had helped, and the respect he built had served him well on patrols. Few now dared to throw the casual snake-joke at him. But the situation he now faced was something no training had ever prepared him for. Pressed up against the wall of the towering customs building - he was alone facing a better part of the port district’s inhabitants, mixed with the local rascals and gang members. The city had burned for days, consumed by its own anger and confusion. Two days prior the smokehouse went up in flames and hunger was added to the mix. He had known then, as had his comrades which now occupied beds in the medical post, that the city would face a total breakdown of order. Azzar's unit had been sent down to the port district to protect whatever food stocks remained. He was now the only one left. Some of his comrades in arms had just left to protect their families in the chaos. Other fell to the random stone that the shield arm was to slow to counter. Azzar was alone and the mob in front. He studied their faces. Many he knew, bakers and sailors, ladies of pleasure and men of the sword. They look frightened and crazed. He felt the adrenaline pump in his ears. His heavy breathing the only thing cleansing his body from all the excess heat created by tense muscles and a galloping heart. He decided. With one arm he removed his guard helmet, custom made by the city’s best blacksmith to fit around his elongated skull. He raised it far above his head. And screamed the loudest his lungs could muster. The crowd gasped and stepped back slightly. Azzar spun around and threw the helmet through the nearest window of the customs house, glass shattering in a cascade of shards. The mob let out an approving roar – fist raised. He was one of them now. Not lizardkin or city guard. Just a normal, frightened soul trying to survive one more night of chaos. That night the port district burned.


    Spoiler Crime - Corruption :
    Vijit was happy. At least she thought she was. She had a distant memory of happiness from her childhood, a night in which her family had celebrated the end of winter with the whole village. They had danced and ate the most wonderous meals. Her father had kissed dear mother and said “everything will be all right”. And it had. Until the lich corrupted the wells. It started with mere rashes or slight coughing. Relentlessly the plague jumped from house to house. At least that was what they had thought. No one suspected the prestine water. Vijit’s household was soon the only unaffected family, spared by something so benign as dwelling far from the well and a cistern of rain water. The respit was however short lived. Vijit’s mother was the first to show the signs of death. By that time almost the entire village had perished, with around half returning as undead ghouls. Vijit did not remember much from her near demise and transformation, just a long fever and unrelenting tiredness. The local governor had acted quickly when the plague started, sending messengers to plea for aid in the capital. The capital answerd, but by the time the life mages arrived, only Vijit’s family remained firmly in life. When she awoke again, her family was still intact, just broken and twisted. The body remained but her soul felt lost. Her beautiful dark hair turned gray and the eyes blackened. But over the years the family came to accept their fate. Being trapped somewhere halfway between life and the undead even came with some perks. No more winter colds or need to constantly keep the fire ablaze. The lack of emotions was however something of a downer. One of the brothers had left the village after a couple of years in search of the lich to repay by sword, but his departure had not bothered Vijit or anyone else – lack of feelings makes missing someone hard. But now Vijit thought she was happy. The small gift of coin to the gatekeepers of the eastern city palisade had had a wondrous effect on shipment times of her family’s renowned silk scarfs – straight from the spinning jennies of the Malakim. To this day her father and mother praised the wisdom of the Malakim tribes of the northern desert. Most traders and merchants had severed connections with the sole surviving family after the blight, but the Malakim traders had seen coin for coin; undead, demonic or alive - what difference does that make in the pursuit of profit? So, the family’s proud silk trading business could continue to flourish, as it had for decades. And with the palisade gatekeepers at the eastern entrance guaranteeing that all cloth shipments not belonging to her would be inspected most thoroughly and at great cost – while her own would just flow through straight onto the shelves, or continue on towards Bannor and Ljusalfar lands to be sold in sparkling merchant houses and worn with pride at carnivals and celebrations. Now it was on to the western gate, coins rattling in her purse. She smiled at the anguish the disruption would cause the other trading families. Or at least she thought she smiled. It’s so hard to know.


    Spoiler Crime - Arson :

    “Snap, cricle and puff – that’s the sound of the things we do, the beautiful things that we make go.
    Snap, cricle and puff – listen child can you hear, the moving parts of machines so dear”


    Walvos sang quietly by himself the same old rhyme his guild master had mumbled every single day during the apprenticeship years in the mechanical shop, all these many decades ago. The tune was forever etched in his mind, intertwined with happy memories of curiosity and the marvel of mechanical exploration. Walvos was old now, and the master long gone, and he had a multitude of apprentices of his own. For almost a decade he had himself been the master of the Mechanics guild in the Mechanos capital. But the prestige of the position meant little to him, especially now as the lust for social interaction had long subsided. But the receptions and parties that was expected of the position was a small price to pay for full autonomy in discovery and creation. His mind was still sharp and the love of the machines larger than ever. Before him lay the metal exoskeleton of something he proudly would describe as a mechanical swallow, perfectly adapted for glide flight but strong enough to catch an upwind and stay airborne for hours. It was beautiful. He had worked on the design for years, a deadly bird of prey capable of dropping small vials of wildfire or poison. Maybe not strategically important in most situations, but surprise attacks from above could demoralize or confuse any enemy. If just the damn ratchet outside the guild house could subside so he could continue to work in peace. Suddenly the door sprang open and two apprentices lunged into the chamber. “Master, the mob! They are throwing torches through our windows, we must go”. In terror, Walvos hunkered down over the swallow, and refused to let it go as he was dragged from the room by the students. The hall was already on fire. He saw books and blueprints set alight. Tears started to stream down his face as the portrait of the old masters lining the walls crumbled in the heat. As Walvos was removed out the back door, the smoke made it impossible to keep his old watery eyes open. Blinded, the only thing he could hear over the screams of the mob was the roaring fire, with sounds so familiar – snap, cricle and puff.


    Spoiler Crime - False accusation :
    It was not the first time, nor would it be the last, that Rardos found himself in a courtroom. This one was quite unrepresentative and showed little indication of being a hall of law. Probably just some kind of communal meeting room for various purposes – and tonight it was the seat of a judicial hearing. Or a farce, if you were to ask Rardos. It had been so predictable, and he was actually quite ashamed that he had not seen in coming straight away when he rode into the ocean side hamlet. Rardos travelling carnival troupe had not even set up their tents before a group of ruffians approached him. “You are this groups leader I presume?”, they asked and Rardos had nodded, while his merry band slowly stopped tent razing and grabbed assorted equipment usable in a fight. The surprisingly articulate gang leader, with arms adorned by a large kraken and other major crustaceans, informed him that this was a dangerous town and he offered “some protections for the entire group and lot, you know thieves and drowns plague the nights here”. All it would cost was coin, and actually profoundly more than the usual fee. The audacity, just ignoring the going rate! He had tried to haggle some, arguing for the usual rate along these shores, but the leader had been unimpressed and when the group became aggressive Rardos had just turned around and walked into his tent. The last shout had been ominous – “I would not leave this lot you’all, the city is not safe for your kind”. Of course, no one had been allowed to leave and the guard shifts had been doubled. The next day, a local official showed up. There had been a robbery in town, and the assailant had worn a red tunica with golden embroidery and spoken with a foreign accent. Rardos tried to argue that it would be absurd for one of his performers to rob someone clothed in his performance attire, but to no avail. He was ordered to show up the next day at the courthouse – or the issue could be settled straight away by coin. The price had now risen 50% since the day before. Rardos again refused and the official turned around fuming. Rardos immediately ordered the company to prepare a hasty departure in the night. As the tents began to come down in the dusk light, Rardos was informed that campfires was alit just outside their compound with gang members merrily singing tunes praising the Octopus Overlords while sharing kegs of rum. There were to be no easy departure, they could fight their way out but at what cost? Better to stand down and hope for some reprieve in court. A sudden slam from a heavy door indicated that the presiding lawman had arrived and Rardos arose. Turned out that this was not the Lanun way, as everyone else remained seated. He sat down again and looked up. The man holding the gavel opposite him was the very same official he had meet the day before. Rardos mood sank. There would be no justice here.


    Spoiler Crime - Illegal immigration :
    An aching neck was not something that Dinarte appreciated, nor any ache anywhere as a matter of fact. But pain was more or less the norm these days. Who to blame but himself, he thought – unconsciously rubbing his protruding belly. It’s been years, even decades, since he last ventured into the border plains. He had been a marvel of physique then, chiseled, strong and with unending breath. Now, old age, lazy living and a unquenching lust for sauces had left him… well… fat. Ha!, he giggled at the thought but quickly found composure. This was a moment of celebration, of him, and the cities entire elite was before him – silently contemplating the boring speech the ecclesiastic on the podium next to Dianarte had now held for 10 minutes. The source of the neck ache was hanging in a silver chain around his neck. Another golden idol of the Empyrean– celebrating Dinarte’s latest donation to the church. Philanthropy was an easier living than migration facilitator of the steppes, that much he could acknowledge. Now he had a band of men and women facilitating the actual immigration, while he and his lieutenants planned in crimson halls. The migration part of Dinarte’s merchant empire was today just one of many enterprises. He owned maybe a third of the taverns and inns in the city, and the most beautiful gambling house of the entire south shore was his. But, the migration had started it all. While he hated the Shaim, he had much to thank their crazed ideology for. First it was the dwarven refugees from the scorched mine lands, followed by formerly enslaved servants of the host, when that particular warmaster finally was defeated. But more Shaim armies continued to stream out from their cursed lands, striking without plan in every direction. Every new conflict brought fresh waves of panicked families to the steppes – to either die by cold, hunger or barbarian – or find salvation by coin guaranteeing safe passage. How many untold lives Dinarte had saved during the years only the Gods knew. He had not only provided the shore cities with workforce to settle the riverbanks, but also dwarfs for the forges, elves for academies and libraries and the followers of Order to the militias. When he was young there had been a single temple dedicated to one set of Gods, now there were a multitude – every dawn bringing a holy day for someone. The ecclesiastic finally finished, and the crowd applauded dutifully. It was his turn to enter the podium and give thanks. His neck ached, could someone tell the finesmith that there are lighter materials than gold – shiny things of excessive weight he had plenty. Before him stood people of every color and creed, and he felt good. Soon another war would start and more would be added to the mix. There would not be an end to profit anytime soon.


    Spoiler Crime - Unethical experiments :
    It did not need to be like this! There is no pleasure in pain. Any happiness in cruelty. Any honor in her deeds. They could structure these trials in other ways. A humane effort of inquiry, allowed to take time. But no. The only respite she could offer her victims was pain relief by poppy and simple chants of sleep – or in the cases when that wasn’t enough, a death without fear or strife. She took some mental refuge in that most of her subjects were either convicted criminals or captured enemies. But they still had families and feelings. She had raised concerns, but the orders had been crystal clear; there is to be no delay. The armies of the frozen draws nearer, and the unnatural chill that every northern wind brought was a reminder of the snow drawing ever closer. Again. The Amurite’s proud armies rained fire and doom over the approaching horde. Hundreds frozen souls fell every day, but a thousand more streamed out from hidden burrows. New weapons were needed. The entire guild had been sent out to tap into new nodes – the places where mystical magical energies pulsated which such intensity that the simplest farmboy could feel it. Only she and her team stayed behind, trying to bend her dedication of the Sun into this weapon. She had taught the lesser adepts to melt the encroaching snow and offset the effects of blizzards. Her colleagues dedicated to Air tried to offset the chilling winds with southern warmth, to some but limited effect. Every day grew colder. She needed the Sun to come to their aid, fireballs could never stop a tide of ice. But her trials needed to happen in the shadows, the God King and his court would never condone such cruelty, even towards the most hated enemies. The guild masters had long decided that the struggle was to important to let matters of conscious be a hindrance.

    Another subject was strapped up before her, obviously one of the Illians, the pale skin and blue eyes a dead giveaway. She started to mumble chants, feeling the magical energies expose themselves. She tried to focus them in new ways, bending them to her ways and wishes. The Illian squirmed, intense heat radiating from the frail body. Suddenly she felt something new, an arcane pathway she had not previously encountered. She pressed on relentlessly. The screams of the test subject caching flame were a mere distant echo, her concerns for its well-being forgotten. She had found something.

    An alien thought appeared – “I am called”.
    “What are you?”, she answered.

    “Yours to command”, the thought answered.

    “Show yourself”.

    The room radiated with heat and assorted scribbles and notes flew around glowing like ember. The Illian now a mere burnt corpse, as inconsequential in death as in life.

    A single flame appeared mid-air, expanding until a chasm of plasma floated in her chamber, charring the walls. But she felt no heat nor discomfort. This entity was hers. She could feel its energy, at her disposal. She had found her weapon, and it was beautiful.

    “Aurealis shall be thy name, child of Sun”.

    “Command me”, the thought answered.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
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  14. Go2got

    Go2got Chieftain

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    Would you be willing to add in a game modifier to turn crime on/off like there is for inflation or the frozen civ?
     
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  15. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

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    i'm on the fence about it. On the one hand, it's easy to do , on the other, i fear it may lock crime into broader alignment territory, where any mechanic that would depend on it, must also be designed alternatively for people who play without it. That is very costly in terms of design and development time (and is basically the reason nothing much happened using broader alignment since the mechanic was first introduced in FF/Rife).

    for the current iteration of the system, it wouldn't be an issue, nothing much depends on crime. But i had plans to deepen the relationship between it, Esus and Rogue units.

    (As a sidenote, you can already deactivate it through one line of xml if you really want to : in the GlobalDefinesAlt.xml file, search CRIME_RATE_PER_POP and replace the value with 0. It'll stop any crime increase from population, making it irrelevant)
     
  16. Go2got

    Go2got Chieftain

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    7
    The only problem I've had with it is how debilitating crime is for a civ as a whole. I feel like rushing education and using the apprentice civic is now mandatory since crime builds fast, slowly goes down and makes itself worse. Dungeons provide some relief, but warrior spamming for patrol and limiting city growth are necessary. (Not counting the earlier problem stated that your defenders are now weaker against attackers, or you make your heroes much weaker by not picking combat promotions)

    I tried to avoid all of this completely by playing as scions, but then I still felt like all i was doing was concentrating 100% on avoiding crime growth and keeping all cities at low population.

    At any rate I totally rage quit when I noticed my capital (size 6) having a +5 crime after a building popping up that was something like "unhealthy discontent +5 crime." The city was unhealthy but they are fallow so I wasn't expecting anything like that to pop up.
     
  17. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,560
    i do agree that in the current form, it needs balancing. It was a first pass to see what worked and what didn't (i cannot play as many games as i'd like, so i need that feedback). I'm tweaking stuff about it right now. Happiness excess will decrease crime rate, and most crimes will have a minimum population before they pop up. I also will tweak the values with game speed, which i have forgotten to do.


    (The Scions do have unhealth despite their fallowness, at least until you get the Necropolis building)
     
  18. Go2got

    Go2got Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2019
    Messages:
    7
    Cool beans. I've played casually a little bit yesterday and really got tired of concentrating on nothing but crime for all of my cities (it was only like 4 cities lol, also why I asked how to disable it). It's a pretty cool idea though so I really wanted to try it. I could see crime being a really unique way of screwing with other civs (referencing the rogues you mentioned).
     
  19. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,560
    should upload the tweaks by the week-end, hopefully, it'll be more playable without spending all time focusing on crime^^
     
  20. Edish

    Edish Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    44
    I have now played a little more with crime, and I have come to really like it. I would strongly advice against having a turn off option, as it becomes two different games when such a core mechanic is optional.

    Firstly, it forces you to actually care about defenses of non-border cities and workers. This is in my opinion great and equalizes the human vs AI, as Ai are much less prone to be as detailed on this issue, building defenses everywhere. A spawned assassin killing of four upgraded workers is... annoying, but great in forcing you to rethink your planning.

    Second, it creates some conflict outside war, also needed especially mid game when barbs are less of a threat.

    Balancing:
    I reiterate my view that there should be a mechanic to turn of “further crimes” such as instituting martial law (which could remove all science and gold generation as a consequence) or having one military unit for every citizen. This enables you to deal with what you have and avoid the impossibly hard spiral out of control from outbreak.

    Second, every unit should have some crime fighting potential (one for every promotion maybe) while the police-upgrade could double, triple and quadrople it.

    Third, more buildings should give crime fighting, but maybe small. Minus 2 for every temple, minus 1 for growth buildings (Lore; easy to guards centralized production and storage)
     

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