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Final Fixes Reborn

Discussion in 'Rise from Erebus Modmod' started by Ronkhar, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. Randomness

    Randomness ...

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    To put this into prespective, I've finished a few games on a Huge(ish) map with every civ in the game with little/no problems.
     
  2. BanTingyun

    BanTingyun Chieftain

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    Cool, thanks so much for the insight!

    BTW, encountered an odd bug, probably not worth tracking down as a restart fixed it, but just in case somehow useful--first time I started the game through the launcher, it reported my computer specs were not good enough, and reset graphics to low. Very odd (computer is top of the line), so I just set the graphics back up to high, and then started a playnow on erebus world map script to clear prior mod selections. It spit me onto the map, but what was odd is that I couldn't see any menus anywhere, not for units or anything, it was just a pure view of the terrain surrounding my starting units. Pressing B caused my settler to found a city, but the program slowed during the founding and took 15 seconds to complete. I pressed escape to get the options, and most of the options menus were blank, with no options or text listed. I ctrl alt deleted out, restarted, and everything was fine and normal this time.

    Hopefully I'll have more useful bug reports in the future, I just operate under the principle of "Report everything" and leave it to others to decide if worth it.

    Thanks again for everything the Ashes team is doing, very excited to get back into playing!

    EDIT: BTW, I found this advice regarding modifying exe to allow for better memory use to reduce chance of MAFs (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=224178), is that something that could be safely done for Ashes of Erebus? Or not recommended?
     
  3. black_imperator

    black_imperator Emperor

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    That MAF thing is way too old to be of much use, BTS had mostly fixed the errors that caused the ones in Warlords and we had many improvements since the FF days ^^

    as for the other ones, i had it happen once or twice, haven't been able to track it yet.
     
  4. BanTingyun

    BanTingyun Chieftain

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    Cool, I'll relax about the MAF issue then. Haven't played ffh in so many years, I think my paranoia is just a relic from an earlier time.

    Did run across one more question. The FAQ sticked here for Rife says about maps:

    "We only recommend using Erebus Continent and World of Erebus, as they contain features designed for RifE. However, the launcher contains support for activating other maps that we include, but are deactivated by default. These maps include the standard Erebus included in FfH, and all standard BtS maps."

    Is it still the case thst only Erebuscontinent and worldoferebus are recomended map scripts? And we should avoid the mountain valley script Erebus (called Erebus_107b in this mod's files), lest we miss out on some features? I did notice selecting that or the Earth3 script in playnow did not display map options to select, just a blank screen to click through, thought custom game seemed to work fine.

    I ran Erebus_107b a few times and it seemed to do well (except one time a volcano appeared to be floating in the air above a mountain--very weird, it didn't show up in the terrain description, but there it was, a flying volcano), but I'm not sure I would ahve noticed were it missing some resources or special terrain improvements.
     
  5. black_imperator

    black_imperator Emperor

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    They are still the recommanded mapscripts (because we haven't done work on them), though if i'm really honest, i don't really know what the reason is. I'll try to look into it, but it's probably something like Haunting Lands at start for example.
     
  6. BanTingyun

    BanTingyun Chieftain

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    I'll stick to them for now then.

    And thanks for your patience in answering all my questions and general generosity in spending your time to help get me up to speed.

    And it's awesome to see all you are doing to perfect this wonderful modmod.

    Thank you so much!
     
  7. black_imperator

    black_imperator Emperor

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    You're welcome. ^^ And don't hesitate to ask if you have any more questions or suggestions.
     
  8. BanTingyun

    BanTingyun Chieftain

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    A few minor issues I've encountered:

    1) I occasionally get a "failed to compress game data" on starting a new map. I am using the FFH media pack, if that might be the origin? Not sure why longer videos would do that, but I reverted to normal SVN movies just in case.

    2) The loading notes still include one about planes: "Your fighters can intercept multiple" or some such, searching for "fighters" should find it.

    3) The version of ErebusContinent included seems to have been constructed from an outdated version. 2.6 of the mapscript (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=308590) has the "great plains" option under plains chances, but it is missing from the included Rife one (which probably means it is missing other improvements in later versions?). I wonder if the included one has been tweaked in some way to make it better for Rife though so simply replacing with the updated one wouldn't be a good idea? I don't know anything about how maps work.

    4) Twice on starting a new game, I ended my first turn and it announced "_______ has won a "gone to hell" victory". Both times the game announced one of my units had become aaron's chosen. One of these times I immediately exited. The other I checked my units, and they all seemed to be able to be promoted infinite times (checked and I could buy all the unit promotions). This was around 10% of gamestarts (I was testing map changes), all on erebuscontinent.

    5) I tried the Darkforest game option, which says it does something to convert forests to other types, but it didn't seem to change anything? Or maybe I missed it?

    6) Mana guardians seemed to spawn the guardians 1 tile away from the mana? Perhaps that is normal, I was just expecting them to be on top of it.

    EDIT: Added one more
     
  9. black_imperator

    black_imperator Emperor

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    1) It's a random save issue, i haven't been able to track it yet but i'm working on it.

    2)added to buglist

    3) I need to check the updated version ( and i really need to delve deeper into mapscripts)

    4) haven't seen that happen yet, not sure what happens here

    5) it has two possible effects, one chosen at random : either it spawns Diakonos which are demonic satyrs being able to confuse units that meet them or Demonic forests that block the surrounding tiles for some time. If you haven't seen anything, it's probably the Diakonos one

    6) I think it's chosen randomly between all 9 surrounding tiles.
     
  10. BanTingyun

    BanTingyun Chieftain

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    One more small bug:

    "Familiar Faces" doesn't seem t be fully working--Ophelia made it into the game commanding the scions when I left a random civ slot (I assume she should be blocked as emergent).

    Just to confirm, this is how I should be reporting bugs, or you prefer a different method?
     
  11. black_imperator

    black_imperator Emperor

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    Yep, this thread is for bug reporting (and everything else related to the mod actually ^^) i'll take a look at the "familiar faces" thing
     
  12. Randomness

    Randomness ...

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    I've personally been running the Erebus mapscript with cold climate and medium sea level on huge(ish) size and have been very happy with the results. This mapscript does take longer than most to generate though.

    I've also had good luck with mountaincoast, just make sure the map is set to be flat otherwise the mapscript breaks.
     
  13. BanTingyun

    BanTingyun Chieftain

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    Cool, then I'll keep posting here! Ran some more tests, and a game out to turn 805 on marathon. Ran across the following potential issues (some balancing issues some bugs).

    Bugs:

    1) Event for an experienced traveler that offers to share info for a small amount of gold has many options (or perhaps all?) that don't seem to do anything. For example, paying him to tell about remnants of lost ages, even paying to find out about large cities doesn't seem to do anything. (I couldn't find this event anywhere in the text files, so I'm not sure of its designation)

    2) Discovered forgoten burial mound of warrior from previous age event gives 4 options (ANCIENT_BURIAL from more events module); the last one (robbing the tomb for its riches) doesn't give anything but is attached to a decent chance of creating a held skeleton warrior. The other choices that don't involve leaving it alone all give something in exchange for running this risk, so I think there is supposed to be a reward there that didn't get programmed in.

    The event info looks like this if helpful: <EventInfo><!--Ancient Burial events-->
    <Type>EVENT_ANCIENT_BURIAL_4</Type>
    <Description>TXT_KEY_EVENT_ANCIENT_BURIAL_4</Description>
    <bPickCity>1</bPickCity>
    <PythonCallback>doAncientBurial4</PythonCallback>
    <PythonHelp>helpAncientBurial4</PythonHelp>
    <PythonCanDo>cannotApplyGood</PythonCanDo>
    <Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Process/Blank.dds,Art/Interface/Buttons/Beyond_the_Sword_Atlas.dds,8,5</Button>
    <iAIValue>1000</iAIValue>
    </EventInfo>

    3) end of winter game option played on huge maps leaves a couple of tiles near center of map as ice by the time the warming shuts off (tested out to turn 805 on marathon). Searched and discovered this was a known issue in Rife (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=373633&page=85) from a fall further extended end of winter mechanic that would happen on large maps because the warming didn't scale, Valk said they hadn't fixed yet because they tended not to play with it, but said they would have to get around to fixing it. Apparently, they didn't.

    4) Stepped on "mirror of heaven", but didn't get any additional scouting radius from it. I thought it functioned to allow you to see nearby at great distances? Or am I remembering incorrectly...

    Balance issues:

    1) child born to bring peace to the world event (Holy_Child in the main events file) has way too harsh a penalty for choosing to "kill all newborns", -2 to pop in a city. The thing is, the "good" option is basically the same benefits to the civ, it just has a minus to armagedon counter instead of a plus. Outside of the sheaim, I can't imagine ANY civ valuing that relative + to the armagedon counter enough to eat that loss of pop, so I'd suggest the option be changed to "search for the child and kill it" (rather than kill all babies), and no pop loss. Also, killing all babies comes with a happiness increase, which makes no sense even for an evil population.

    Also, in Eventinfos the AI weights for this event seem set badly. It is <iAIValue>1000</iAIValue> for all 4 choices, even though the 3rd choice (and its loss of population) should probably be set to much, much lower, maybe 0 since there is no check for whether they are evil or not (and even then -2 pop can be a terrible blow early), and the 4th choice for octopus overlords religion should probably have an overwhelming AI weight (I mean, if I understand correctly the AI currently has equal chance of reducing pop by 2 as it does picking a free great prophet...which is nuts even for octopus overlords). If I'm undestanding correctly and AIvalue is the chance of it being picked? So maybe set the octopus overlord aivalue to 100000 to make it overwhelmingly likely?

    2) The "you see a procession of angels" event (ANGELIC_PROCESSION in the main events file) that gives a -2 to the armagedon counter, if you are playing with a high number of civs (20 or so), then all of them rolling for the event adds up to a significant pressure keeping the armagedon counter down in the game. Same thing with the "child born to bring peace" event discussed above, presuming most civs choose to let the child live because they don't want the pop loss, except there the -10 to armagedon counter is more dramatic. Suggest reducing the event weight for both.

    3) The constallations events seem unbalanced. Even leaving aside the random influxes of tech and money out of thin air, the random handing out of golden ages to select civs can seriously mess with game balance. I rolled up 2 golden ages as the illians in an 805 turn game, and many of my neighbors were coming in and out of golden ages at odd times (I assume many from this event).

    A golden age is at least the value of a great person by mid-game, and these constallation events are much more common than the very uncommon events that gives great persons. I think it is simply too powerful a random result to be so liberally distributed.

    Also, I worry--do all the civs have constallation events associated with them for a golden age? If one was left out accidentally, that is a huge detriment to the civ, because it amounts to a repeated loss over the course of the game.


    Weird or annoying things:

    1) scions can break off from an existing civ and come into a game that way. Seems odd, given their lore. I'd suggest removing most of the 'unique' civs from the list of potential breakaways, if possible.

    2) With an AI controlled Scions, you get spammed with "alcinius was created messages" as he dies and gets reborn. It gets rather annoying. I would suggest disabling the creation message for him.

    3) Relatedly, if playing the scions these alcinius was created by messages clue you in to which civ he went traitor for when he gets reborn into another civ, taking out the mystery and the cool mechanic where you would have to use the emperor's daggers to cast the locating spell in order to send your killers to regain him. So another reason to remove the message.

    4) The event that gives you a choice to build a library or a mages guild for money (Something like, our facilities for research are insufficient), can fire before knowledge of the ether is researched, making the complaints of mages and the option to build them a guild very odd.

    5) At some point I was spammed by "the savage ogre warchief has been born again!" messages turn after turn, for about 10 turns. That may be intended, I don't know what was going on.

    Side comments:

    1) Tested erebus_107b again (my wife was adamant she wanted to play her game on it, unsupported or not), volcanos created on mountains that float in air most noticeable problem. More interesting, seems to create some cool map markers I haven't seen in other map scripts though (a bog that consists of 4 lake squares surrounded by swamp, a moor, some fairy land of a single green square surrounded by less nice terrain in the middle of an island, all with names), I wonder if those are map specific, or why I don't get them for the supported maps? If they are indeed missing, perhaps they can be added to the supported maps when you get around to messing with the scipts, these sort of unique map features can add a great deal of flavor.

    Suggestions:

    1) Some of the organization improvements that master of mana did to the civilipedia (separating heroes from normal units, wonders of various types from buildings), would be a welcome change.

    (questions deleted and revised at end)

    EDIT: Randomness, thanks for your comment and advice regarding the erebus mapscript.

    EDIT2: Revised my questions:

    Questions to aid in my own personal modification and play (only if you have time to answer of course):

    1) I would like to force all random events to be in the event pool every game, while removing all constallation events, for a personal modification. Can you let me know if the below plan is correct?

    I went to Civ4eventtriggerinfos.xml. Changed all <ipercentgamesactive> for all events to 100, but for all the events marked "EVENTTRIGGER_SIGN_(name)" to 0. (I noticed that the sign of NANTOSUELTA has its event commented out while doing this, not sure if intended, but it is the only event like that so thought I'd report it)

    Are there any other xml file containing events or quests to edit? The only other one I could find was the more events module, but they are all set to 100 anyway. The fact that I couldn't find the traveler offers to sell info event makes me think I missed some additional events file, but I looked everywhere...

    Also, I assume removing the constallations won't break anything else in the game, like the appearance of any unique heros or something? I couldn't find one that did anything special, just making sure.

    2) Do you recommend playing with the "no inflation" option with this mod? What about the "dark forest" one you told me the mechanics of earlier, do you think the AI can handle it? Just curious, since I haven't played enough to have any idea what makes sense. :)

    3) followup to earlier response: So installing the FFH media pack shouldn't create any crashes or problems from the longer movies?

    4) Is there an easy way to edit starting alignment for leaders, or to change alignment in-game with the worldbuilder (using broader alignment)?

    EDIT3: supplemented above events with their names in the code, and revised several reports.

    Also, it occurs to me that the holy_child octopus overlords aivalue problem might be more general--I would guess there should be a general look through the events cauusing the AI to value the choices that grant them benefits higher than the others, and especially if said choice requires a special religion or other requirement (when it could usually be presumed to then be more valuable), as it seems most events have equal values assigned for most choices despite clear advantages of some of them.
     
  14. black_imperator

    black_imperator Emperor

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    Ok that was a large one, let's take it one by one

    this one should be in the More Events module, i remember writing it years ago. As for its effects, most of the time the biggest city doesn't do much as you already have it. Same for the other things, if you already have all the UF effected by the option visible, it won't do a thing.

    it gives 90 Gold if the skeleton doesn't spawn. The help text is missing that.


    and i didn't either, i'll get to it at some point
    It should give you +6 line of sight, yes.
    i'd prefer to keep the pop loss but increase the benefits. (but really, it is an AV-oriented choice ^^)

    The AIValue is just a base value, it then gets modified in code by the AI that looks at the results of the events before picking one. It's more present to give a weigh to the results the AI cannot understand ( the python code). It generally needs a rework anyway, i agree.

    There are a few events that tend to produce AC as a counterpoint, though reducing the weight may not be an issue
    The constellation events are planned to get axed and be replaced by a better astrology system :
    -constellations will randomly come into prominence giving a small random passive bonus to all civ while they're up ( so turn x, Oghma's constellation appears, all civs get +5% Science till another one appears at turn y)
    -Civs get access to a new set of rituals allowing them to call upon a specific constellation ( to give it a higher chance to appear next time, or to increase its stay if it's already here) and others to get better effects for themselves. I could also see some specific units getting bonuses and maluses based on the constellation.
    It's still in early design, but i'll implement it as soon as the design is finalized

    To be honest, i wasn't even aware we had a breaking off from existing civ mechanic currently working in game ^^.

    Agreed, though more for the second reason than the first.


    agreed
    Ogre Warchiefs are Immortal i think, so there may be something with that ^^
    i'll take a look
    we have a filter system in the upperleft of the pedia interfact that does that.

    Yep that would work. (and the traveller is in the More event module^^). And no removing the constellations won't break anything else.


    i think the ai has a bit trouble with the demonic forest part of "Dark Forest" early game, but it is a nice way of limiting growth
    not to my knowledge.
    with worldbuilder, no, but you can edit the leader xml files to change their starting alignment if you with.
    yeah ai value need a rework.
     
  15. BanTingyun

    BanTingyun Chieftain

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    I could have been mistaken about the scions appearing then, perhaps I had gotten confused and they had always been there. One followup: in doing the edits I noticed that the random weight for many events, some mundane or some amazing and miraculous, is set to 400. So if you do end up looking at aivalues, maybe also makes sense to look at the weights and change them to more differentiated based on frequency they should occur.

    Thanks so much for all the info black_imperator! I learned a great deal from your responses, particularly about how the events work. And the new constellation system replacing the golden ages with small thematic benefits does sound both more fun and balanced, especially with the ritual mechanic you describe.
     
  16. Nor'easter

    Nor'easter Emperor

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    He might by referring to when you grant independence to overseas cities. I know there's no Revolution mechanism in Ashes of Erebus, and the only other thing is the Minister Koun event, but that's just the same civ. And same with the Kahd event.
     
  17. black_imperator

    black_imperator Emperor

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    wait, we still have that overseas thing ? Anyway i'd really like to merge Revolution at some point, it would work great with the Whole Emergent Leader mechanic (and the fact that some civs are break-offs from others lorewise),

    but i feel like we need to take in consideration the fact that we have some wholly different cultures and societies, and that the basic mechanic of stability may not help to show that diversity ingame.

    What i've envisioned is to take the basic system but expand it with a system of societal tags for civilizations ( and/or leaders) that would block or reverse some of the causes of stability. For example, the tag "WarLike" would mean that the leaders wouldn't take a stability hit with high war weariness, but with prolonged period of peace.
    After that, the leader or civ who would pop up after revolution would be one that takes the opposite views of the main cause of unstability.

    for example, if Bannor (with "Fanatic" and "Warlike" tags, get into revolution mainly due to a long period of peace, Angaad would pop, while if they get into revolution because they're too nice with other religions, Gaius would come and say hi

    Again, this is some early design thoughts, i haven't really worked on it, just a long-term objective
     
  18. Randomness

    Randomness ...

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    Those features are unique to the erebus_107b mapscript and were created by the mapscript writer. It may be possible to isolate that part of the mapscript and add it to others, but I think that would be rather difficult. If it could be done, though, I'd love to see it happen.

    Sometimes I play with "no inflation" sometimes I don't. If I do shut it off, I tend to have a ton of gold late game, but FfH's late game is supposed to be kind of ridiculous anyway so it doesn't feel off.

    "Dark Forest" I just find annoying. The diakonos(sp?) give some effect (I can't remeber what it's called) which makes your units wander off in random directions for a few turns, but they can get into a near unbreakable loop where the effect is reapplied right after it wears off.
     
  19. BanTingyun

    BanTingyun Chieftain

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    Black_Imperator: the way of implementing revolutions you describe sounds wonderful.

    Randomness (or any knowledgable person): do you know how the mechanics work for inflation in this mod? Does it cap out at some point, or could it potentialy grind an economy to a halt if the game lasts long enough? I sometimes play endless games where I turn off victory conditions and roleplay for awhile. Not sure if this mod follows standard BtS inflation mechanics (which if this description is still accurate http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=232926 grow at an increasing rate to armagedon style inflation as you get much past the official end of the game)
     
  20. Randomness

    Randomness ...

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    AFAIK, this mod hasn't touched inflation, so if you're playing long past the normal ending date it's probably best to play without inflation.
     

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