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Final Fixes Reborn

Discussion in 'Rise from Erebus Modmod' started by Ronkhar, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. Ag0range

    Ag0range Chieftain

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    Hi everyone and respect to the modders of the Ashes of Erebus!

    I am looking for a FFH mod that is not dead =)

    1) Is it correct that Ashes of Erebus is the last FFH-type modmod that actually is under development at the moment?

    2) I used to play Master of Mana but it died and it seems IMHO that its modmods got stuck in the bugs... Fall Further also dropped. Is Ashes of Erebus our last hope?

    3) Are there gameplay problems with overpowered natives (all kind of omnipresent spectres and almost invincible goblins?), broken features or something else?

    I am asking all this only to know

    4) Is the Ashes of Erebus worth download? =) I would not like to download tortoisesvn, invest AGAIN days into getting in the mod to find something unplayable.

    I do not mention to discourage or offend anyone, just want to know the truth about the scale of your success here to be able to decide if it is worth "marrying" Ashes of Erebus or it is worth burying the fantasy civ completely... Thanks and hugs...
     
  2. black_imperator

    black_imperator Emperor

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    1) Tholal's and MagisterModmod are also more or less in development, but yes AoE is still in development
    2)Last hope i don't know, but we do try to kill bugs ^^
    3) there are powerful early barbarians, but the worst offenders have been or are being dealt with.
    Apart from that, there are a few unfinished features, but nothing broken ( not counting the current issue i'm working on).

    4) i'd say yes but i'm not really objective ^^. As for the debate between svn and non-svn download, the svn one is more advanced but it is occasionally instable ( which is a bit of the case at the moment )
     
  3. Ag0range

    Ag0range Chieftain

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    Black, for the reason you answered so fast, I felt the serious approach you have, and will take the tortoisesvn svn version tonight! =) Thanks so much for your answer, and you just have gained a new follower!

    Never surrender and keep the good work going, without you and your team the whole post-FFH world might be doomed =)
     
  4. Astyria89

    Astyria89 Chieftain

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    Having a bizarre recurring bug, mainly randomly the game will get to were it is loading up after I've set everything up and then simply crashes and windows tells me the game has ceased working. Doesn't seem to matter what civ I use either.

    Of note my player profile does not appear anymore when I load up any civ, which might have something to do with it.

    EDIT: After careful testing, I am at a loss, its purely random when it works or not, but it didn't start out with this problem. Mainly whenever I wish to start a new game, most of the time when I click to launch the game will simply crash to the desktop and windows will inform me the game has stopped working. I CAN load saved games and run them but starting a new game is frustratingly randomely impossible. Sometimes I can run regular Beyond the Sword and the next game of AoE works fine, but then the next time crash, OR it just crashes. Its very strange.
     
  5. black_imperator

    black_imperator Emperor

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    were you using play-now games or custom ones ? if custom, what options were you using ? (it could be somehow linked to an option). Try to enable the logs, we might be able to get something from that.
     
  6. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    Hi,

    just to tell you that after long months of not playing, and before that, long months of playing MoM, rebirth, Emm, and Magister, i'm just dl the svn... and I started a mekara game.. my first one ever.
    I was always put off by the "slavery" theme.

    but in fact it is nice ! (and the overall AoE them is good atm: enemy AI is weak on my continent (smallish one, and those are Sidar : they out-tech me (I think), but no second city, and only two severed soul -ghost?- unit (I guess) (there are 3-4 severed souls in capital, but I only ever seen one ghost): the rest are only... warriors.

    so with my 5 hunter-replacement, + only 2 battle sluga, I kind of rased their units, without losing any on my side. I'm just refraining from killing their only city as I want to get their tech, and use them as a fresh and un-ending supply of slaves. ...

    however, the AI seemed to use the ghost well : jumping past my units, killing/capturing a worker sent home, and jumping back to city.

    thanks for all
     
  7. Rodge

    Rodge Chieftain

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    Been quite a while since I played, but downloaded the latest version and tried it out again recently and really enjoying the state of the mod now! :)

    I have one little issue. When starting a game with Legion of D'Tesh - I tried opening Worldbuilder (really to check that the opponent civs haven't been hampered by an awful start, like can happen sometimes). The WorldBuilder doesn't seem to properly load up when playing as Legion. The windows don't appear properly and I can't interact with the map while Worldbuilder is open.

    This doesn't seem specific to any maptype and it all does seem to work perfectly fine when I select any other civilization.
     
  8. Parahacker

    Parahacker Chieftain

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    FYI, the 'no diplomacy text' bug was fixed when I changed my locale from Japanese to U.S..

    So it's caused by a more recent update (update 85 works, update 200 does not), and it's related to the applocale settings.

    Since I've got it working without issues, I'm not fussed about it. I can just change my locale when I want to play.
     
  9. Ag0range

    Ag0range Chieftain

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    First day I played good and enjoyed it much. The second day, having loaded, I faced the No Diplomacy text bug. Here what I did:

    Following the advice of Parahacker, I Changed locale on my Windows 10 machine from Russian to English US. Having restarted the laptop, I found out the whole Civ program got screwed: it kept informing me that The requierements were not met, blabla, and I saw that the graphical config got defaulted. I guess that happened due to the reason that my username in Windows, unfortunately, is in russian letters, so it stopped recognizing its characters due to that new locale. The BtS kept freezing when I was trying to change screen size configuration. It could not load my game either, weirdly going back to the load screen instead of actually loading. So I decided to revert the locale back. I changed it to my original Russian, restarted the machine.

    So I found out that BtS stopped complaining about improper configuration. Still, weirdly it kept freezing when I tried to choose another screen size, (might that be for the reason I created a new account name inside BtS as suggested???) So I surrendered and decided not to touch the options any more and just go play, cause it was getting late already and me there enjoying the bugs =). So I loaded another mod, ROM AND2, because I had a savegame there with diplomacy. I opened and saw the text was ok. I closed BtS and started Ashes. Loaded my game. The bug of no text was gone. All the texts in Russian (my BtS is Complete Edition in Russian) and English in my Ashes were visible everywhere.

    So WTF thought I, if I reverted completely to my original settings, why did the bug go away and why should it had happened in first place?! I am still confused and afraid that it might come back suddenly, just like that Demonic Shadow that is harrassing all my civ at the moment hahaha.
     
  10. bardliam1

    bardliam1 Chieftain

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    Will there ever be a working version? Or has this whole thing been completely abandoned? I enjoyed playing them, then they got pulled, and now I can't play them at all because either the launcher for RIFE crashes if you try to activate them (even if you Run As Admin) or there's TXT_KEY conflicts in AoE if you activate them and it's impossible to read their info half the time.
     
  11. black_imperator

    black_imperator Emperor

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    i do intend to make a working version, yes, though i do need to take a good look at them and balance them a bit. I'll try to start looking into it soon
     
  12. Vespers84604

    Vespers84604 Chieftain

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    I love the Jotnar:).
     
  13. bardliam1

    bardliam1 Chieftain

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    Yay! Hell, even just being able to activate the module without errors would be nice, but I'll wait for a revamp if necessary.
     
  14. black_imperator

    black_imperator Emperor

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    for people who regularly get the no_diplo_text bug, can you help pinpoint which revision it's coming from ? (people seem to agree that it doesn't appear in the 85 rev, but does in the most recent, but it would be nice to have a tighter range ^^). To switch to another revision, right click on the game folder and choose svn/update to and then choose the revision number.
     
  15. Ag0range

    Ag0range Chieftain

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    My no_diplo occured in rev.226 ...

    Edit: Ooops, I understood, you ask us to try different revisions to find one where it all started!... Let us see what we can get...
     
  16. black_imperator

    black_imperator Emperor

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    So i've started to read the old jotnar threads and i'll post my thoughts and ideas around here as i go through them. Started with that one if people want to check it out : http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=278848

    So base concepts of the civ:
    The key sentences here for me (in addition to Giant of course) are "small family groups", "Slow to bear offspring", "attracting some odd kin" "Traditions", "Tightly Held Together", "their pure size make them a force to be considered"

    Let's translate them into general gameplay ideas:
    "small family groups" : Small cities, either in pop or in actual control area
    "slow to bear offspring" : low pop growth, low quantity of primary units
    "attracting some odd kin" : large diversity of races, possibly a kind of random spawn akin to the Refugee mechanic
    "pure size ...force to be considered" : stronger units than normal
    "Traditions, tightly held together" : less prone to revolt, less prone to change ( increase cost to civic changes ?)

    The initial implementation of the Jotnar then works on those basic words in the following way : (i'll get to updated implementations when i see them appear in the threads) (also i've added my thoughts on the system in italics)

    -The "small cities" effect is created with both a population hardcap and a Working area limited to the first ring around the city. This basically means that cities will grow to their max size and potential relatively quickly and that players will have to have a comparatively larger number of cities to compete with other civs.
    I don't like hardcap very much, but that's a very personal thought. Apart from that, the necessary spamming of Cities is not something the AI is able to understand well natively.


    - the "slow to bear offspring" is associated to the "diversity of races" by making your primary way to get units a slow random spawn of a generic "youngling" unit, that can then be upgraded in several kinds of giants. Interestingly, this random spawn is also tied to the AC by decreasing the chance to get units with higher AC, offering an clear objective to the civ.

    That's one of the major issues with the current system, i think. It makes sense, but the fact that all primary units come from a random source leaves way too much to fate early game. In addition, the AI is seriously disadvantaged as it doesn't understand the required things to do to improve their chance of gaining troops, and it doesn't optimize its troop use as well as an experienced player might. The AC thing is a really nice touch, encouraging conflict in mid-to-late game

    - The "large and strong" is given by the fact that all primary units are stronger than their usual counterparts, with additional strength and ability to moonlight as siege units
    This works well, especially when added to the Aging mechanic making older giants even more powerful

    -the "Tradition" and "held together"parts are mainly given through the Traditions Civic.
    I don't really have any specific thought on this, yet, i feel it would need more effects than the reduced maintenance to fit


    Ok so now that we have reviewed this, let's see what we could make differently :

    "small cities" : I actually want to pair this with the "slow to bear offspring" idea by removing the hardcap, but increasing the time they need to grow pop. ( either by increasing their food by pop value, or by increasing the quantity of food they need to store to gain 1 pop) i prefer the second possibility, because, among other reasons, we could even add a modifier to that value linked to the AC.
    The one-ring cities seem alright ( one could argue that since they're so large, they can reach larger areas, it's true but the feeling i get is that they prefer control of small defensible areas).
    I see those cities as big forts where all members of the community do what they can to improve the group as a whole.

    pushing this idea would make cities with increased building and specialist yields ( for specialist, mainly Food and Prod to differentiate from other specialist economies that are more commerce oriented), along with large defensive bonuses. I'll even go as far as giving stationned units some passive city bonuses.


    For the unit system, i propose a major change in two parts :
    -giant units are now buildable normally BUT cost population to produce ( at a 1pop=1unit rate, except for settler). Added to a slow growth, i feel that it can create the feeling that every Giant life is precious. every population you gain is a giant that either works in your cities or is sent to the battlefield. This is the main way you get your troops, and a way the AI can understand.

    -the random giant system is slowed down and gives already trained giants (Giants that spent their life solitary but finally decide to join you after hearing of your achievements). It serves only as a bonus source now. ( i'm tempted to link it to local Happiness and Culture, to push the "Tradition" and "tightly held together" angle)

    For the actual units, no specific changes yet.


    For the "tradition" angle, i'm tempted to increase civic changes cost for Jotnar ( the anarchy period, maybe something else), but otherwise seriously decrease their revolt chances and effects. (Link it to Revolutions, when it happens)


    Ok, that's just first thoughts after reading the beginning of the original thread, nothing is definitive yet.

    Please tell me what you think, especially people who already know about the jotnar.
     
  17. Ag0range

    Ag0range Chieftain

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    I like your approach, Black!

    Food related ideas: what if the Jotnar might have positive food modifier for the hills and mountains and negative food modifier in the plains and swamps (eating rocks, not effective in agriculture), positive food modifier for the horses and sheep and all the riding techs blocked (these animals are for food, not for riding), capture all kind of units via subdue animal (people, lizardmen and what not) with a butcher animal option in the cities to encourage hunting for the food for any kind of protein? =)

    Movement: might pass mountains, slowing down to 1?
     
  18. bardliam1

    bardliam1 Chieftain

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    Honestly? I think everything you just put out is pretty much brilliant. The food issue is obvious - it *should* take more food to feed Giants than the 'puny folk' of the other races. :) Also, going off of another post, giants shouldn't have cavalry, so Horses should be a food source instead of a military one. And the anarchy period should be doubled, and the 'cost' increased. They should also have a 'Feed' option for Slaves similar to the Calabim.
     
  19. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    I feel that its nice.

    However I have a few issues:

    civ, and especially FFH needs H:hammers: and S:science:... which needs population.

    so if, by design, you impose to them small cities, with small radius, (so with rarely more than 2 ressources), I'm pretty sure you'll need to give them compensations in other places, and not only in unit str.

    the three ways of playing Jotnar that I played were always with small cities but either:
    - small radius: quickly reach size 9-12, but cannot really grow above),
    - or extra large radius, with 3:food: per pop : IMO that was the most interesting of the two : Jotnar would have sparse cities, (3rings) and could mostly have as much pop as they had ressources +1 or 2: the city size was limited that way (and I liked it better), or
    - or last; you needed to build cottages (or staeding) to get the right to increase city size... which inherently limits the city size, as you'll need almost half the space as cottage/staeding... with low food input, especially if staeding are 0/0/0 tiles).
    those staedings would show "small families" spread around a center "city".

    but IMO your proposition of cumulating a "harder to get food" with a smaller city area.. is doubling the difficulty.

    Further if you have stronger units but they are more expensive, less replacable, and you take much more time to build them.... (as you'll have much smaller cities) you get an under-interesting unit.

    I like that units cost you pop.
    I like that you could get new units "by chance" ; maybe those "new units" could come with a "mutated" promotion, with a more positive than negative effect

    - I disliked the use of Thralls ... no need for that IMO.
    - I think the proposal of have +F:food: for cattle, even elephants, would be nice.
    - I think the corrolary of Jotnar, if they need more food, they produce more H:hammers: per citizen (stronger workforce) :for example, every specialist get +1H, every terrain get +1H (or maybe: citizen and GS, and artisan and priest get +1H, and every tile with 2H get a 3rd H) (or every specialist get +1 (H or culture or gold or science), and every tile with 3H get a 4th, with 3c get a fourth.
    - I like that units in city could give increase production: maybe stationned worker gives +1commerce , while stationned units give +1H:hammers:(with 0 maintenance?), or the reverse.
    - I really liked the Trolls mechanics.. however they were too powerful with comparison with their Giant counterpart, even with taking into account the risk to become barb: buildable, no :gold: cost, 2mvt, regenerate...etc. (IMO that was because the Giants counterpart were not powerful enough)

    - Maybe Giant Units could all get mobility II, with maybe "half terrain cost in hills". so melee units get 2 move ; can be 3 with mobility 1 ; trolls get 2 move, "half terrain cost in jungle-forest" + can get mobility I and II to 4moves.


    - For the growth mecanics, it might be interesting to have the food needed to get a bigger city be increased not only by pop, but by turn number.(dunno if modable)
    that way, getting your city from size 9 to size 10, early game (at turn 100) costs you 130% the cost of other civs : +30%.
    However, if you do the same thing at turn 400, you'll need 160% : so building a unit, which removes you 1 pop, is more costly in term of food for the late game than early game.
    maybe something like "jotnar get a base +20% food growth" + 0.1% per turn (if 400 turns game) so at 100 turns, you get +10% food needed to grow, and at turn 400, your new city would need +40% (total +60%) food than a normal civ in order to grow.

    However, I'd like to repeat that if you use limited ciy radius... do not push too much difficulty on growing : maybe the +30% food needed is enough (slowing the pop growth).
    however, in that case I'd expect that Jotnar will REX, which is un-loreish.
    and imposing a +3tile distance would not be nice as that would force them to miss on ressources yields.

    anyway, good luck and thanks for tackling this question
     
  20. Ag0range

    Ag0range Chieftain

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    Reporting here: today I have experienced the No Dipl Text bug again. This time I worked it around this way: options-turn off fullscreen-restart-turn on fullscreen-restart. The bug was gone. I am not sure if it really helped (config management) or it was just luck.

    The Rock Raven unit is able to attack and recon the same turn. If you recon, you cannot attack though. Might be a bug?

    The Traveller Telling Story event might be bugged - I have had it twice, paid 14 and no story =)

    Obsidian has an Oil icon...

    Edit: Are there plans to include the overall Civ Modding advances to Ashes? Graphic paging, Surround and Destroy, Realistic Culture Spread, Revolutions, more Civics, no resources visible until proper tech (no wheat without farming, no horses without husbandy, no stone without stone building... nothing), full scale hunting with bringing and butchering units, minor civs?
     

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