[GS] Firaxis has improved AI AirPower.

[Aristos]

I've just watched Inca video and could only confirm AI airpower is still very much broken.
Poland (AI) fighters were deployed, but instead of attacking Hungary (human) military units they just indifferently continued drawing circles in the air near Krakow and just routinely chenged deploy location near Gdansk instead of engaging with enemy ships attacking the city.
The fact that Poland (ai) actually build fighters and deployed them is of little interest for it is exactly how computer handles airpower in base game (and RF) today with buffed airpower pseudo-yield (with AirPower AI Fix mod see my signature).
Firaxis improved nothing at the moment

Exactly. And FXS AI is a dead horse, so we will continue to beat it until something happens.

 

[ggalindo001]

I've just watched Inca video and could only confirm AI airpower is still very much broken.
Poland (AI) fighters were deployed, but instead of attacking Hungary (human) military units they just indifferently continued drawing circles in the air near Krakow and just routinely chenged deploy location near Gdansk instead of engaging with enemy ships attacking the city.
The fact that Poland (ai) actually build fighters and deployed them is of little interest for it is exactly how computer handles airpower in base game (and RF) today with buffed airpower pseudo-yield (with AirPower AI Fix mod see my signature).
Firaxis improved nothing at the moment

Agree. I guess the fighters are in defense to help to shoot at the Hungary fighters attacking -- but that is about it. Passive use.

FearSunn -- I know you said you have got fighters to play properly -- so it can be done. It is disappointing to see it not come to life in the devstream. In fact, I haven't seen anything in the devstreams that even remotely looks like the AI has been improved in any regard. My only hope is that they are still working on it and we are seeing an early product.

 

[DemonMaster]

The build that they used in the Hungarian stream was an old one. It was even an old one in the Canadian stream (they mentioned that some AI behaviour wasn't in that build. I don't we can tell that much about what the AI will and can do based on a couple of turns with a Hungary that was so extremely ahead in tech that it was ridiculous (I got a feeling that they did this just to how the robot). I was glad that Poland has built a flak unit though. I have never seen that in Civ 6. That means that they really have changed things (regarding that at least).

I think we have to wait until another stream where they either address the air issue (what they have changed) and/or dedicate the saves in the stream with an atomic or information era war between two civs that are fairly equal. So we can see what the AI do or don't do.

I do under stand that this is difficult. This needs to be done carefully or it can really hurt the AI. Some mods out there (FearSunns air mod and also the AI+ mod) can make the AI build more things, yes, but they also tend to hurt the AI in other aspects.

 

[Disgustipated]

I was glad that Poland has built a flak unit though

Is this even a unit? I thought this was a Civ5 unit? I've played this game almost 2000 hours, and I did not know this was a unit apparently. Are you sure you aren't referring to anti-air unit? Of course I've never built the anti-air unit either. Or mobile SAM.

 

[DemonMaster]

Is this even a unit? I thought this was a Civ5 unit? I've played this game almost 2000 hours, and I did not know this was a unit apparently. Are you sure you aren't referring to anti-air unit? Of course I've never built the anti-air unit either. Or mobile SAM.

Of course I meant that I call them flak because for most of my life when referring to WWII type of anti-air guns I have used that word.

That the human players never builds is not a surprise, the AI rarely build planes, so why. Hopefully it will be a change with the expansion. Well, it can really only go up from here, regarding air combat

 

[Disgustipated]

oh okay, I wasn't sure if I just didn't remember the unit. I know there are a couple units I never build, and those 2 are it.

Speaking of, I mentioned this earlier in this thread, and I believe another thread talking about air power. Rome did build a bomber in this game. Of course we never got to see if they could use it since they weren't at war with Rome.

It's at 1:03:10 if anyone is interested. Although strangely, even though it shows the jet bomber graphic, the airport capacity is still listed as 0/2. Hmmm. The jet bomber even has a promotion! That means the AI had to have used it, right? Unless he gifted the unit to the AI somehow (see the general thread about a hint about possible gifting)

 

[Cagarustus]

Exactly. And FXS AI is a dead horse, so we will continue to beat it until something happens.

Would you go so far as to boycott GS?

 

[criZp]

Can AIs build air forces before they research flight now?(Maybe allowing them to build air forces on a Renaissance tech, human players still on Flight, is a good idea?)
If not then that is still nonsense for me. I never seen an AI being able to live that long.

maybe stop destroying them if you want them to live longer.

 

[Disgustipated]

maybe stop destroying them if you want them to live longer.

Ha, reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite movies.
"You just shot an unarmed man"
"He should have armed himself if... (I'm leaving off the last part)"

Point is the AI needs to learn to defend itself. It's pathetic the AI only lives because we let it live.

 

[PhilBowles]

For those who have complained about lack of AI improvements and Firaxis’ non commitment to improving the AI, what are your thoughts on the Firaxis’ announcement in the livestream that they have buffed the AI use of AirPower?

That's not what they said. They said they improved the power of aircraft. As far as I could tell from the stream the AI's behaviour was identical - it built some planes and kept them on defence, but did not create bombers or attack.

This is however not necessarily conclusive. In Poland's position that was the best use of their aircraft if they only had fighters, and at least there was no evidence of the random bouncing planes from city to city every few turns. What's more someone noted in the livestream thread that Russia had a bomber - even being able to build that unit seems new.

I think this shows that Firaxis has been listening and is taking into consideration the views of the community. Sure, it was late and it could’ve been done earlier but it does show an attitude of improvement by Firaxis.

The AI doesn't use air units at all right now, even when it builds them. It shouldn't take community complaints to recognise that this is an issue. The AI is presumably intended to be able to use everything in the game, and is presently unable to. The inability to use bombers also indirectly results in the AI being unable to use nuclear weapons, which is a popular feature and means the Gandhi gag doesn't work in Civ VI. All these are reasons to address it - that it's waited until what is likely the last major content addition for Civ VI suggests to me that it just wasn't a priority to fix before, whatever the community thinks about it.

I'm wondering whether your many mods may have something to do with this.

I don't use mods and the AI builds and intercepts with fighters and has been able to since either Rise & Fall or the subsequent patch. That doesn't really count as the AI using an airforce, as it's just the fighter equivalent of sentry.

 

[AriochIV]

maybe stop destroying them if you want them to live longer.

Is this meant to be a joke? Because it's quite funny.

 

[Disgustipated]

What's more someone noted in the livestream thread that Russia had a bomber - even being able to build that unit seems new.

Yeah I noted that. Although in my current game I'm playing now the AI Greece built a bomber. So it's not like the AI isn't building bombers, they just aren't using them. As you mentioned, this is a problem. The AI should be able to use the game mechanics, and currently it can't. Greece never used this bomber against me. And for the record, this is an unmodded game.

 

[Aristos]

Would you go so far as to boycott GS?

I am there already. I will only buy it if I see real improvements and a fully capable AI that at the minimum can use all systems of the game. I am not even saying "use all systems efficiently", I am willing to settle for "use". And to the apologists, NO, the AI is not using all systems as of today.

Moderator Action: Please do not label other members that disagree with you with negative terms, such as "apologists". It is trolling. Please present your argument without the name calling. leif

 

[L4Psha]

You all just too good at this game that's all. I couldn't get past emperor, but i saw AI using fighters, jet fighters, bombers and hence nukes. If they just buff the strength of fighters that'll be fine for me.

 

[PhilBowles]

You all just too good at this game that's all. I couldn't get past emperor, but i saw AI using fighters, jet fighters, bombers and hence nukes. If they just buff the strength of fighters that'll be fine for me.

I've never yet seen AI nukes, and I don't see any reason why the AI would be less likely to use these on higher difficulties where it has the tech to do so. I just finished my latest Deity game - which naturally went to 1900, and I played a further 50-odd turns to get the Eyjafjallajökull achievement. Rather to my surprise I did see a notification that Persia had pillaged a district with a jet bomber (I saw two Persian bombers, but one moved to Babylon the turn before I captured it and the war ended before I saw it use the other. My past experience is that the AI just leaves aircraft sitting on standby).

 

[L4Psha]

Believe it or not but once i get my capital nuked by gilgamesh twice almost in a row. And i definetly sure that AI uses nukes from subs to. Once i saw spain nuked by indonesia, i was curious so i load previous autosave and find a nuclear submarine, then shortly after declaration of war it launched a nuke.

 

[DemonMaster]

I have seen deployed biplanes being damaged (I have no idea what damaged it), I have seen both bombers and fighters attacking land units, I have seen nukes go off and I have seen jet fighters and bombers attack. But it is very rare and since the AI don't build them until very late, the game is usually over by then. If we take the fighters, I must say that when it comes to fighters and attacking, the most common (well, less rare) of the fighters to attack is jet-fighters. So hopefully the devs can tune the right way. I hope that they read this and show a stream with some atomic era warfare (with civs that are equal in tech).

 

[PhilBowles]

Believe it or not but once i get my capital nuked by gilgamesh twice almost in a row. And i definetly sure that AI uses nukes from subs to. Once i saw spain nuked by indonesia, i was curious so i load previous autosave and find a nuclear submarine, then shortly after declaration of war it launched a nuke.

Interesting - that's encouraging, but should be much less rare. In my last game I was using nukes, and in doing so ended up at war with Macedon (they had nuclear subs caught in the blast). Macedon was spamming nuclear subs, and kept attacking my cities with them - but no nukes.

Then again, I don't know whether Macedon had nuclear weapon techs at that point, since these aren't prerequisites for nuclear subs.

 

[Disgustipated]

I'm actually trying to get myself nuked in the game with the screenshot above. So far no dice. That's why there's a nuclear emergency, I was hoping if I was willing to use nukes, I would be nuked in return. Only small players on the scene left now though. Greece probably would have been the best shot as they were on top of the AI pack until I beat them down. Poland was fairly strong, but almost out. Gilgamesh only has 4 cities (actually maybe it's 5 from the picture)

 

[redfox85]

I kinda worry about planes getting increased strength. I currently use the AI Air power fix mod, and in my current Immortal minus the starting units for the AI game I've encountered no less then 20 japanese fighters. After turn 1 of the war - taking two cities one with 6 battle ship armada's, they took out 3 of those with 6 fighters. If there increasing plane strength - they better give anti-air units the ability to launch multiple defense attacks instead of the current one.