Firaxis Livestream tomorrow, Wednesday Sept 7th at 4pm ET: Let's Play Religion

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

So your argument is that Spain and England, with continental-based UA's, must be able to use such abilities since the start of the game, rather than work hard to obtain them through colonization of new lands?

Then I would say Brazil should have to work hard to get any rainforest

 

[fmm]

So your argument is that Spain and England, with continental-based UA's, must be able to use such abilities since the start of the game, rather than work hard to obtain them through colonization of new lands?

I guess that is a valid point. Seems like a wierd design choice and certainly a missed oportunity, but I guess that could be the case.

Plenty of game mechanics are based around specific hexes, which are supposed to be somewhat "evenly" distributed but are certainly random. "Continent" is just another, somewhat random attribute of hexes. Sometimes you'll get lucky as Spain or England. But also, you might get unlucky as America if e.g. your capital straddles two continents. Not a big gameplay deal.

And all of this is most relevant to Pangea. In maps with more water, there will be more "legitimate" continents.

 

[m15a]

It sounds like people want a few different things from continents - more balanced, more random, more realistic, etc. So, I think the best thing to hope for is that continent generation is accessible as part of the map script. So, hopefully, there will be "balanced continents" maps and "realistic continents" maps, or even maps that have a check box for "balanced continents" the way that some Civ V maps have a check box for "balanced resources". Civ V ended up with a lot of officially released maps over all the DLC, so hopefully we'll see a lot of interpretation of continents officially released without the need for a patch to the concept of continents.

 

[Acken]

The real issue is how easy is this to fix. If it is unreasonably difficult to fix this, then I can concede and accept this gamey mechanic. I'm just wondering if it's not an easy fix.

I have a feeling civ6 will use a similar mapgenerator to civ5. If thats the case we will be able to dorectly dive in the lua.

My current wild guess is that continents are a post map generation attribute. Meaning the map is generated first and then the continent layer is made.

It should be possible in that case to tweak the algorithm to be based on civ starting positions if necessary.

But its probably not as easy as changing a few xml numbers. Also it must be noted that modifying the map generator in civ5 modified it for all maps. Using an option though is possible in that case.

 

[Olleus]

Is there a summary of what we learnt in this video out yet?

 

[DemonMaster]

When it comes to continents and starting locations, everyone can't start in the middle of a continent.

For the boundaries of continents, irl the exact borders have been changed through history. Sure it would be nicer if the borders at least for most parts goes along rives/mountains/lakes.

 

[Alsark]

The leader screens keep disappointing me. When they declare war on Japan, Tokimune draws his sword to show he means business, and then... The screen fades to black and he simply stands there same as before, sword sheathed and all. That's incredibly dumb. I like the animations but the leader screens just don't look polished.

Yeah, I agree. I was thinking in early videos that the fade to black was a placeholder, but at this point in development, it'd appear not. It's odd that they'd create completely separate animations instead of just a seemless animation using the model. Granted, I have no idea how animation works, but I wouldn't think it'd be that big of a deal to have a sort of transitional animation instead of a fade to black.

 

[moysturfurmer]

Is there a summary of what we learnt in this video out yet?

5 confirmed Cassus Belli
Apostles are spawned with a choice between two random, powerful promotions.
Successful religious combat lowers the heathen pressure of nearby cities & can outright convert them.
Few more city states's Suzerain bonuses detailed.
Inquisitors can only be spawned if an Apostle launched an inquisition.

Edit: more here
https://m.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/51p3q1/civilization_vi_devs_show_off_religion/

 

[Cyon]

also religious combat can be initiated by apostel and inqvisitor, missonaries can only defend. You can kill enemy religios units with religios combat, even if not at war. religios units can only heal damage on holy sites. Inqvisitators can only be purchades after you have burned (!) one of your apostels at the stake to start a inqvisitation.

also trading posts, the thing you get automaticly if you trade with a city will give you bonus gold if you pass through it on another trade route, kind of a cool mini game to max that.

(A)=(1)=(2)=(3)
------II---II
-----(B)--(C)

imagine that you first have a trade route between B and 1, and also between C and 2, that would give a trade route between A and 3, 2 gold extra at first, and after that trade route is complete it would give 3 gold because there is a trading post in 1, 2 and 3.

 

[Olleus]

So how does religious combat work exactly?

Missionaries and inquisitors or apostles fight, and then what?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

So how does religious combat work exactly?

Missionaries and inquisitors or apostles fight, and then what?

When Ed's Apostle smited and killed (lol) the missionary, it created a sort of burst of religious pressure from that spot. It instantly converted the city next to it and gained followers in other nearby cities.

 

[Scaramanga]

So your argument is that Spain and England, with continental-based UA's, must be able to use such abilities since the start of the game, rather than work hard to obtain them through colonization of new lands?

I guess that is a valid point. Seems like a wierd design choice and certainly a missed oportunity, but I guess that could be the case.




With all due respect Scaramanga, I have no idea what you are talking about.




I guess that's also the point funkeymonkeyman was trying to make. Brazil will have a Rainforest bias, so Spain could have a "between continents" bias too, that would prove your point I guess.

I still think this is a poorly designed mechanic, and prefer to believe it will get improved before release, but I guess you guys could be right too.

Likewise, and the differing timezones between our computers probably doesn't help.

Without studying the livestream too carefully I would still say that it was lucky that Spain could harnass their benefit so easily but it is going to have an opportunity cost of not settling their home continent and then concentrating on setting up trade routes instead of military, which can be pillaged; and then later on missions, which can also be pillaged.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

also religious combat can be initiated by apostel and inqvisitor, missonaries can only defend. You can kill enemy religios units with religios combat, even if not at war. religios units can only heal damage on holy sites. Inqvisitators can only be purchades after you have burned (!) one of your apostels at the stake to start a inqvisitation.

also trading posts, the thing you get automaticly if you trade with a city will give you bonus gold if you pass through it on another trade route, kind of a cool mini game to max that.

(A)=(1)=(2)=(3)
------II---II
-----(B)--(C)

imagine that you first have a trade route between B and 1, and also between C and 2, that would give a trade route between A and 3, 2 gold extra at first, and after that trade route is complete it would give 3 gold because there is a trading post in 1, 2 and 3.

Are you sure it would give 3 extra gold?... I don't think it was indicated that a Trade post at the End of the route helps, only ones Along the route.

So how does religious combat work exactly?

Missionaries and inquisitors or apostles fight, and then what?

They lose hit points...
If they die, then their religion experiences a loss of pressure in all cities 10 tiles from the combat

If they don't die, they can only heal the hit points in a Holy Site (of their own religion)

I'm not sure if being low on hit points reduces their "spread religion strength" I would hope it does.

 

[Louis XXIV]

the apostle was blocked by mountains - the only way would have been the tile blocked by the builder and afterwards passing through the city center tile of the CS...

Right, which is three moves if all on flatland (while the Apostle has four moves). My question is did the Builder block the Apostle even if he had enough moves or if there was terrain cost involved as well.

 

[elitetroops]

Right, which is three moves if all on flatland (while the Apostle has four moves). My question is did the Builder block the Apostle even if he had enough moves or if there was terrain cost involved as well.

It's on a road and has 4 moves. Terrain costs shouldn't apply to roads.

Spoiler :

If it's supposed to be able to move through those tiles, then maybe the fact that the possible target tiles aren't revealed could have something to do with it?

On a side note, here are the diplo modifiers from Catherine and Roosevelt after declaring war on Qin (Roosevelt is also at war with Qin, has been for a while):

Spoiler :

Seems pretty harsh and quite impossible to make up for. Especially if you keep getting more penalties from taking cities later, which was implied in some other thread. Will this game leave you 2 options, either stay peaceful or fight the entire world?

 

[Lucius_]

Right, which is three moves if all on flatland (while the Apostle has four moves). My question is did the Builder block the Apostle even if he had enough moves or if there was terrain cost involved as well.

It's not possible to know if the builder was the issue or the city. He does not have open borders with the City state, so the Apostle most likely would not be able to pass through the city. He still wouldn't have been able to go east, without the builder there. The builder on that tile though was blocking him from being able to spread to the city state.

 

[Decius]

Great stream. I learned a lot and overall I become more encouraged about Civ 6 with each passing week. Religion looks like a robust system that can hold my interest.

Otherwise, +1 for allowing civilian unit stacking from the start rather than waiting for a mod (which I will use). I also was glad to see the river exception for ZoC. My greatest lingering concern for Civ6 is that overcrowded maps and movement rules will be a pointless irritant more often than elements that promote tactics and interesting decisions.

As for continents, I'm fine with the current setup, but I understand why some people dislike it.
Would it help if (while keeping the continental overlay view) Firaxis added a toggle for "show/don't show continental boundaries" on the graphics options menu?

 

[BrokenBokken]

I also thought it was said somewhere you need your full turn to cross a river? Am I imagining that? It looks like there is a river between the worker and the city center.

 

[Nick31]

One thing to remember, particularly in regards to this much debated Stave Church: Faith is a commodity just like gold, in that there are a lot more things to buy with faith in Civ VI.

Particularly on this LiveStream, there were some very tasty Great People available for just 540 Faith. Newton gave you an insta-build Library and University in one campus, and the GE was 144 hammers to a wonder.

So, as an example, if you can get 2 Stave Churches and get a serious faith output, even if you completely neglect religion you can do some tasty buying on the Great Person market, in addition, of course, to doing what we did in BNW and save faith for buying nice buildings allowed by your neighbor's religion once it spreads.

 

[Penry]

I mentioned this in the blocking thread too, but isn't the fact that the Apostle was blocked was because Hattusa had closed borders with Philip and not that the builder was blocking it?