Firaxis: Patch coming next week

[Psyringe]

Padma, you and others have said it works for more then it doesn't. I have asked this before, but I will ask again. Where do you get such data. Did you poll a group who purchased the game. Or are you just assuming. Please if you have a poll or this data then post it. Otherwise don't assume that it works for more then it doesn't. Scrolling around this forum and others I see more people posting problems then oh its great. I will give you the whole if it works they are playing and not posting. But, without some solid data no one can say either way.

There have been polls on these forums which exactly support the statement that others (like Padma or me have made). For example, look at this one:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=141393

While I agree that 15% of people who can't or won't play a game they bought are a matter of concern and something that should be fixed, this number imho takes a lot of steam out of the arguments of people who crusade these forums and try to convince everybody that the game does not work when it actually does for the vast majority.

 

[Hyronymus]

Amen (see my other rants against the negativism on Civ4).

 

[Barred]

Elsewhere, I had set mine up as a duel boot as part of building just in case. You are right about the amount of sloppy programming these days, it seems to increase in proportion to the amount of RAM that is considered normal.

 

[King Flevance]

There have been polls on these forums which exactly support the statement that others (like Padma or me have made). For example, look at this one:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=141393

While I agree that 15% of people who can't or won't play a game they bought are a matter of concern and something that should be fixed, this number imho takes a lot of steam out of the arguments of people who crusade these forums and try to convince everybody that the game does not work when it actually does for the vast majority.

I believe this was the poll I was referring to as well in my previous post.

 

[GenericKen]

After skimming a few of these pages, it becomes clear to me that almost none of you have waited for a patch for a game in the past several years, both complainers and "it works fine for me" people. It's amazing that they announced the patch at all, but you have to appreciate the frustration of not being able to play a game out of the box, or possibly not at all (especially when people tell you to go out and blow $200 on a video card or insult you).


In all honesty, I think PC gaming is in trouble if someone doesn't step in and establish a strong inter-system standard for getting games to at least run on min-spec. DirectX has the right idea, but given how much Microsoft has invested in the XBox right now, I get the sneaking feeling that we're never going to see 10.0.

 

[Psyringe]

That's probably the reason behind it - it's neither a problem of the industry nor of its customers, but it's Microsoft actively putting bugs into DirectX in order to sabotage the PC gaming market and increase Xbox sales ...

Just kidding, btw

 

[King Flevance]

What if there was a company that had a billion different machine setups and its function was to do configuration tests on games for Software manufacturers? Not alot of thought went in to this but I am failing to see the negative here besides a lack of income, unless they charged the companies for this service. But IF they could keep costs underneath the cost of the company to do what it has been doing all this time, it could work. Just throwing out a not thought out suggestion to see the replies.

 

[blue3c]

That's probably the reason behind it - it's neither a problem of the industry nor of its customers, but it's Microsoft actively putting bugs into DirectX in order to sabotage the PC gaming market and increase Xbox sales ...

Just kidding, btw

LOL. You do know that now that post will be put all over the boards with out the just kidding part.

The PC gaming industry is indeed in trouble if this is the kind of testing and effort that will go into future releases. That is a sad fact.

 

[MarkC1]

Things the patch wont fix:

1. Your dodgy memory stick
2. Your out-of-date mobo bios version
3. Your buggy graphics driver version
4. Your undercooled CPU/GPU
5. Your modem card plugged into slot 2 and conflicting with your AGP port
6. etc

The fact that these things can hide in what "appears" to be a working computer doesnt change the fact that they are the computers issues.

As I've stated elsewhere, I upgraded my computer (For Oblivion and X3) with a new graphics card and and extra stick of 512mb ram, before Civ 4 was released.

In order to test my newly configured system, I downloaded and ran Aquamark and 3dmark05 (must be the 2005 version not the older 03 version). Both needed Dx9.0c so this was downloaded and installed from Microsoft. Both of them stress Dx9.0c more than any game released to date. Neither of them would run once they switched to 3d mode - both instantly hung my PC needing a hard reboot.

I didnt blame either piece of software.

Several PSU swapouts (the 6600gt is a powerhog so I thought the PSU wasnt coping - as it happens it was OK), bios upgrades, memory config changes, and graphics driver reloads later, I got both 3dmark05 and Aquamark running perfectly.

Surprisingly enough, when Civ4 subsequently arrived in the post, it ran perfectly out of the box.

All I'm asking is that those with problems just accept the "possibility" that it is their machine and not the software that is the problem - that way you are more likely to get the problem fixed. There are a lot of very knowledgable people available on these boards to help you fix it - if you dont jump down their throats first...

I agree the software was released early - but other than some extremely minor in-game bugs (like when clicking on the minimap or unit actions, the click sometimes gets read as if on the main map in the background) and the poorly optimised memory management (not a leak!) I haven't been anything other than impressed by Civ4's stability. I think Firaxis deserve a massive for the product they released.

Oh, and before the complainers whine that "Your just another fanboy showoff because your game works", I spent a week on these boards before I got the game trying to help people who had problems by pointing out a lot of similarities to the issues I had with 3dmark etc. Some listened, most didnt. Its not my fault that those that didnt listen werent helped.

Since when do you have to update the BIOS (a process that can render your computer unusable if done incorrectly, thanks for advocating this) to play a freaking game??

I cant believe youre actually advocating buying new hardware to run this when it is so obviously rooted in buggy software

Since youre defending the software so much, perhaps you and Firaxis should get to work on a list of hardware setups it works on. Wouldn't you agree that that would be a better course of action than putting out some min. hardware recommendation and then saying "Oh well you just dont have the RIGHT parts!" when someone still cant play the game after exceeding those requirements

and no its not that hard to figure out what video cards this will work on. hell theres only two major video card companies out there and they both have hardware specs listed on their websites. and theres very few chipset manufacturers out and again only two cpu manufacturers

 

[blue3c]

I have to agree bios updates can be a little dangerous for the every day user. Whats next, can we send them into the registry. Please just del anything you want.
Reminds me of my friends dad. Back in the win95a days he installed a game on oct 10th. He wanted to uninstall it so he del every file that was modified on oct 10th. DOH! Yes I got the fun job of fixing this mess.

Some of the fixes you guys mention are not for the every day joe blow user. If you have never done a bios update. Please don't. Stay out of the registry unless you know what you are doing. And please please, if you have never cracked a case, don't start now. Especialy setting it on the nice carpet un plugged. after taking the new vid card out of the static bag, please walk around the house in your socks on the carpet.
Seriously, don't do this.
I guess what I am trying to say is this. Not every gamer knows what they are doing with a computer. Not every gamer can crack a case or edit the reg. Jeez not alot of gamers know task manager. These people should not be attempting to work on a computer because some joker in the forum suggested he add more mem or change out his vid card. Cause hell its easy. I will bet any amount of money those with that great advice are not willing to pay for that vid card that the poor user just fried. because he took two steps from the table to the machine in his stocking feet. Had the computer unplugged (not grounded), reached in and fried his mobo as well. Yah thought so. Static electricity what a *****.
Or the poor user that just fried out his bios because you said to update the bios, only he dl ed the wrong one and now his bios is toasty. He can't even get a post.
Be careful of the advice you put in here.

 

[Venger]

You know some of us don't have any affordable choice other than dialup, and unless you are playing multi-player your internet connection should be irrelevant.

Hey brother, I am right there with you - mine was simply a "return in kind" message. I've felt the sting of sub-56k dialup, last when I moved into my new house a few years back... nothing else available. Got ISDN for a few months before the sweet merciful hand of the Lord reached down and gave forth the bountiful plenty of DSL...

Venger

 

[Venger]

There have been polls on these forums which exactly support the statement that others (like Padma or me have made). For example, look at this one:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=141393

While I agree that 15% of people who can't or won't play a game they bought are a matter of concern and something that should be fixed, this number imho takes a lot of steam out of the arguments of people who crusade these forums and try to convince everybody that the game does not work when it actually does for the vast majority.

Seems to me that LESS THAN HALF are having a bug-free go of it, unless my math skills suddenly deteriorated...

Playing with alot of bugs is something I am having to do, and have been for a while willing to do, but shouldn't have been something I've HAD to do.

Venger

 

[Dida]

Seems to me that LESS THAN HALF are having a bug-free go of it, unless my math skills suddenly deteriorated...

Playing with alot of bugs is something I am having to do, and have been for a while willing to do, but shouldn't have been something I've HAD to do.

Venger

I was waiting eagerly for the patch to be released. Not now though, I have stopped playing.

 

[Venger]

I anxiously await the patch. I hope it improves gameplay and runs notably smoother...

Venger

 

[Psyringe]

Seems to me that LESS THAN HALF are having a bug-free go of it, unless my math skills suddenly deteriorated...

Playing with alot of bugs is something I am having to do, and have been for a while willing to do, but shouldn't have been something I've HAD to do. [\QUOTE]

Regarding the numbers: After my mentioning the poll here, it seems to have gathered some selective attention, which has changed the numbers by about 5% now.

Regardless of that - based on the current poll standings you can say that about 50% of people are playing bug-free and about 30% of people play with minor bugs. (Let's not debate over "more than half" or "LESS THAN HALF" when the difference is a fraction of a percent, okay?) These numbers soundly rebutt claims that the game "doesn't work" for the majority of people, which have been voiced here. This was my point.

Of course, 15-20% of voters saying that they can't or won't play the game due to bugs is not a number to be proud of. This could have been a lot better. But it's simply not enough to warrant claims that the game doesn't work for most people.

And as much a I feel for people who can't play the game yet, I don't see much reason to scream blue murder. Yes, the release did not run smoothly. Too many people had technical issues. But knowing Firaxis (and I know their record from the beginnings), I know that these will be fixed. That's why I bought the game at release date - even expecting that it might not work yet, but aware that I will play it for years and can live with a delay of some weeks if it doesn't.

 

[karadoc]

Seems to me that LESS THAN HALF are having a bug-free go of it, unless my math skills suddenly deteriorated...

I think that maybe your maths skills have suddenly deteriorated. The truth is that you have no idea how many people play bug-free. The people on these forums are not a representative sample. People are much more likely to post here if they are having trouble than if they aren't. The people who can't play go around posting in every problem thread saying "I can't play either, Firaxis sucks!", while the people who can play say nothing and just play. I very much doubt that less than half can't play without experiencing the serious bugs.

 

[Ragnoff]

I have to agree bios updates can be a little dangerous for the every day user. Whats next, can we send them into the registry. Please just del anything you want.
Reminds me of my friends dad. Back in the win95a days he installed a game on oct 10th. He wanted to uninstall it so he del every file that was modified on oct 10th. DOH! Yes I got the fun job of fixing this mess.

Some of the fixes you guys mention are not for the every day joe blow user. If you have never done a bios update. Please don't. Stay out of the registry unless you know what you are doing. And please please, if you have never cracked a case, don't start now. Especialy setting it on the nice carpet un plugged. after taking the new vid card out of the static bag, please walk around the house in your socks on the carpet.
Seriously, don't do this.
I guess what I am trying to say is this. Not every gamer knows what they are doing with a computer. Not every gamer can crack a case or edit the reg. Jeez not alot of gamers know task manager. These people should not be attempting to work on a computer because some joker in the forum suggested he add more mem or change out his vid card. Cause hell its easy. I will bet any amount of money those with that great advice are not willing to pay for that vid card that the poor user just fried. because he took two steps from the table to the machine in his stocking feet. Had the computer unplugged (not grounded), reached in and fried his mobo as well. Yah thought so. Static electricity what a *****.
Or the poor user that just fried out his bios because you said to update the bios, only he dl ed the wrong one and now his bios is toasty. He can't even get a post.
Be careful of the advice you put in here.

\
\
The advice posted here directing even the casual user to learn and perform basic system maintainence, how to change out relatively simple parts such as video cards, and even checking to see if there is a BIOS update is sound and well founded. Anyone with a junior high education can follow the AMPLE directions about how to do this that are easy to find. VIdeo cards even contain step by step instructions and warnings (such are your carpet example). Most BIOS updates from major computer suppliers or manufactures now come with programs that do most of the work, and updating a BIOS so configured is no harder and in some cases easier than updating a video driver.

While we all know people who should not handle such things themselves, often they are the exception that proves the rule (My mom is one such, and she would NEVER act on this advice because she is uncomfotable doing anything with the computer). Most of us making these suggestions are crediting folks with the basic ability to read and the interest to learn Perhaps you are the one insulting them, as you presume these WILL UNDOUBTABLY end in disaster based on the users incompitence.

You keep making a big deal out of the fact they should not need to do this to play a game, yet games stress many systems and components in ways surfing the internet, using basic office/word processing applications, and reading email/discussion boards NEVER do. IF you joe user does not wish to ever learn anything about system maintainence, then they sould go buy an X-Box for gaming and jsut use their PC for mundane tasks.

Finally, the hyperbole you engage in in the post above is one of the best poor argumentation examples I have come across in a long time. It commits a good number of falicies of argument in a very short amount of time. With your permission, I would like to strip it of identifying marks and use it in the public speaking and priciples of argumentation classes when discussing claims, support and fallicies. Actual examples are always more useful than contrived examples.

 

[King Flevance]

You keep making a big deal out of the fact they should not need to do this to play a game, yet games stress many systems and components in ways surfing the internet, using basic office/word processing applications, and reading email/discussion boards NEVER do. IF you joe user does not wish to ever learn anything about system maintainence, then they sould go buy an X-Box for gaming and just use their PC for mundane tasks.

In a perfect world..
I am not concerned with the rest of the post, just this part as its the only part I am tired of seeing. Your post of it was in a more constructive manner but it was still essentially the same.
I have a few friends that I am their 'PC guy', 2 of which don't even know how to install RAM as their tower scares the hell out of them due to derogatory statements made by whoever in their lives concerning them. I dont know why honestly but they act like its a $2000 vase that will disentegrate upon touching anything but the power button. They will not learn, I have tried. Telling them to buy X-box is not the answer either. CIV 4 may not even hit X-box. So if they enjoy Civ they HAVE to use PC.
There are many games like this. Also, Civ 4 goes beyond 'normal issues' the average person can come up with. I know alot of programmers hang out on these boards and that is great. But as far as I am concerned I am the average joe. I know maintenance and maybe a few tricks but the UNPAK thing is beyond the average joe level. Updating drivers seems to rarely be the case. MOST people experiencing problems know little about XML and Python to even touch the mod files to disable FOW.
I have usually been able to do minor adjustments to get a game running out of the box. Bugs are different but I can get games to go off basic drivers or whatever. However, saying people need to buy an X-box if they dont like having issues like Civ 4 is ludicrous. I still stand firm in this game has exceeded the 'normal issues' of PC games. If you think different, I am glad I dont follow you choices in games to buy on release.

The problem lies in this game in particular. Can I bring up the CDs again? SOOO much proof this game was forced out the door prematurely. SO much. Sorry.

My main point is please stop using the X-box statement. Its as invalid as the car analogy.

 

[ahsingjai]

Just because a game is well known and highly popular does not mean you are not going to have problems in some respects. Geez - Because GTA is highly known and popular means that no one is going to have a problem with the game, even though they may exceed the requirements to play it? Yeah right.
Because Half Life has such a popular name that instantly means that no one is going to have a problem with the game? I think the answer speaks for itself. HL2 caused major stability and performance issues on some PCs, including mine. Were they fixed? Yes. Were they fixed by Valve? No, not all of the issues. Some of them were actually on my system, but were able to be replicated on others' systems. Does this mean it was a bug, generic to the game? No. It was other software that caused some of these problems (in this case, out of date drivers).

Should I mention Battlefield 2?

I agree that because there are people that have systems far in excess of the recommended system requirements, the game should run perfectly. Most definitely, but this is not a given. And it is also not on some systems. However, there are others that have similar "high-performance" systems and the game runs fine. What's the deal? Wouldn't it run crap on all systems if it was a common bug? No. That's just it. It is not a completely, common, universal bug.

This is why I stated in my above post that we should just wait for the patch. Some of these issues are mentioned, albeit in a very casual, non-descriptive way. But simply saying that "oh I bought this game so it should work without a problem" is crapola. No. It doesnt mean anything. PC gaming has been like this for years - even in the DOS days, which I remember maybe too well. This is not going to change.

DO you believe the intial release of the game was any where near the problems Half life 2 had? Besides, Valve constantly release patches 10 times faster then Firaxis.

If the game was final, it should have miminal problems. And besides, Civilization IV wasn't even an high end system hog, it should work 95% of all customers' systems. I mean I would understand why it wouldn't work for Civ2 or Civ3 PC users because those didn't require much, but a lot of people have fairly new computers and still claim the game doesn't work or it's too buggy.

You can't compare today's gaming industry to yesterday's. The competitiveness and the the acknowledgement of gamers today, the gaming industry know gamers would not accept this kind of quality in today's games.

 

[Clown2TheLeft]

Wait a minute...

For the self-righteous who dislike hearing negativity toward the Spiral Minaret that is Civ IV, let me ask you: If I pre-ordered this game, and it did not work as advertised, what SHOULD I do, if not say something regarding my negative experience with the product?

Later!

--The Clown to the Left