Firaxis: Patch coming next week

[ahsingjai]

You take that risk when you buy any PC game. Doesnt matter what your computer specifications are, you may have problems. Just because you may or may not have had problems in the past with any other game, does not mean you are going to be problem-free with a newer game out. Not all problems are bugs, my friend. My copy of Civ4 crashed too. Was it the game? It turned out it wasnt. I guess I am lucky in a way (and not saying that to rub it in to anyone having real, bug-caused, issues). Wait for the patch. Simple. Wait for the patch. If the patch doesnt fix your issues, email/contact Firaxis. That is all you can do besides trying to return the game to the place you bought it. Well, I guess you could try it on a friend's computer to see if it works there.



Why would someone do that? You are not forced to re-format your computer's HDD(s) to play a game or run any program for that matter (unless it was Windows - as Microsoft's tech support like to tell you). If someone makes a decision to reformat, then they cope with the "issues" that come about afterwards. Saying or implying (and not essentially having a go at you here, blue3c) that Firaxis/T2/Civ4 made them reformat their machine to get it to work is BS. I have read some threads in the past (very early November) about people that have been advised by posters on here to format their drives and start over (notice the word "about"; i.e. I haven't read it directly in a thread). Once again, that is the person in question's choice to do so or not do so.

On the flipside, there is a certain advantage to formatting your HDD(s) once in a while due to Windows' lack of care for itself. Especially if the many left-over device drivers, dlls, and codecs that can cause problems. These are not Civ- or game-related however.

That's bull. Civilization series is a well known highly popular game. Why would we be risking ourselves when it's such a popular game?

The system requirements aren't high. A lot of people have more then enough of the requirements to play the specified requirements.

 

[Sadan01]

That's bull. Civilization series is a well known highly popular game. Why would we be risking ourselves when it's such a popular game?
The system requirements aren't high. A lot of people have more then enough of the requirements to play the specified requirements.

Just because a game is well known and highly popular does not mean you are not going to have problems in some respects. Geez - Because GTA is highly known and popular means that no one is going to have a problem with the game, even though they may exceed the requirements to play it? Yeah right.
Because Half Life has such a popular name that instantly means that no one is going to have a problem with the game? I think the answer speaks for itself. HL2 caused major stability and performance issues on some PCs, including mine. Were they fixed? Yes. Were they fixed by Valve? No, not all of the issues. Some of them were actually on my system, but were able to be replicated on others' systems. Does this mean it was a bug, generic to the game? No. It was other software that caused some of these problems (in this case, out of date drivers).

Should I mention Battlefield 2?

I agree that because there are people that have systems far in excess of the recommended system requirements, the game should run perfectly. Most definitely, but this is not a given. And it is also not on some systems. However, there are others that have similar "high-performance" systems and the game runs fine. What's the deal? Wouldn't it run crap on all systems if it was a common bug? No. That's just it. It is not a completely, common, universal bug.

This is why I stated in my above post that we should just wait for the patch. Some of these issues are mentioned, albeit in a very casual, non-descriptive way. But simply saying that "oh I bought this game so it should work without a problem" is crapola. No. It doesnt mean anything. PC gaming has been like this for years - even in the DOS days, which I remember maybe too well. This is not going to change.

 

[Mazruk]

Things the patch wont fix:

1. Your dodgy memory stick
2. Your out-of-date mobo bios version
3. Your buggy graphics driver version
4. Your undercooled CPU/GPU
5. Your modem card plugged into slot 2 and conflicting with your AGP port
6. etc

The fact that these things can hide in what "appears" to be a working computer doesnt change the fact that they are the computers issues.

As I've stated elsewhere, I upgraded my computer (For Oblivion and X3) with a new graphics card and and extra stick of 512mb ram, before Civ 4 was released.

In order to test my newly configured system, I downloaded and ran Aquamark and 3dmark05 (must be the 2005 version not the older 03 version). Both needed Dx9.0c so this was downloaded and installed from Microsoft. Both of them stress Dx9.0c more than any game released to date. Neither of them would run once they switched to 3d mode - both instantly hung my PC needing a hard reboot.

I didnt blame either piece of software.

Several PSU swapouts (the 6600gt is a powerhog so I thought the PSU wasnt coping - as it happens it was OK), bios upgrades, memory config changes, and graphics driver reloads later, I got both 3dmark05 and Aquamark running perfectly.

Surprisingly enough, when Civ4 subsequently arrived in the post, it ran perfectly out of the box.

All I'm asking is that those with problems just accept the "possibility" that it is their machine and not the software that is the problem - that way you are more likely to get the problem fixed. There are a lot of very knowledgable people available on these boards to help you fix it - if you dont jump down their throats first...

I agree the software was released early - but other than some extremely minor in-game bugs (like when clicking on the minimap or unit actions, the click sometimes gets read as if on the main map in the background) and the poorly optimised memory management (not a leak!) I haven't been anything other than impressed by Civ4's stability. I think Firaxis deserve a massive for the product they released.

Oh, and before the complainers whine that "Your just another fanboy showoff because your game works", I spent a week on these boards before I got the game trying to help people who had problems by pointing out a lot of similarities to the issues I had with 3dmark etc. Some listened, most didnt. Its not my fault that those that didnt listen werent helped.

 

[Xink]

I do agree with what you have written Maruk. I had a few issues with this game either CTD's or reboots but I will admit that since I have invested a lot of time examining my hardware and making changes I now have ZERO CTD's or reboots - the last thing that helped was the purchase of replacing my memory sticks.

Two excellent applications that can help in the diagnosis of PC problems are ...

Memtest and OCCT.

... as well the Aquamark and 3DMark 05 if you use the above you will ensure that your PC is then up to the challenge of running Civ 4.

There are aspects of gameplay that need to be fixed with a patch or two but overall I am very impressed with the stability of the game as it is.

I remember spending a lot of time helping people in the Cossacks 2 forum to try and understand that their Intel onboard graphics chip just wasn't up to the job of playing the game, not being Direct X 9 compliant. It can be difficult, at times, to encourage people to consider that their PC, which plays every other game that they have perfectly well, could be part of the problem in getting Civ 4 to run.

 

[Elsewhere]

Lots of truth in the two posts above me. But then there are some of us, the computer literate people with up-to-date hardware and drivers (I have to have them, I develop realtime graphics software on this same machine), and no matter what I do, the game will keep on crashing. I haven't had a driver-related crash in any applications, either my own or other peoples, for ages, except in Civilization IV. What gives?

It may well be that there's something in the new drivers as well that make the game crash. But I can't just roll back to older ones, because that would break some of the other things I need, like the latest OpenGL extensions. I firmly believe that if a game doesn't work with the latest everything (and a computer that's well above the recommended specifications), something is wrong with the game itself.

 

[Mazruk]

Elsewhere,

Whilst I appreciate that you need drivers that work with all your applications, I hope you will at least admit that sometimes the latest drivers are buggy? nVidia just did a driver update to fix some bugs in its previous driver. Both of which were released after Civ4 so there is no way civ could have been tested with them. I cant blame the game for that one...

Civ4 is using a lot of Dx9.0c features that most other apps arent (its why its useful to use something like 3dmark05 as a test). It isnt civs fault that some of those features highlight faults in some drivers.

 

[Barred]

Elswhere I know what it is like to have your home pc optimised for a project that happens to conflict with some games. I built at the time a top of the range system so that I could work at home.

Have you thought of duel booting your system? That was the only way I could play some games with what little time I had during crunch time.

Good luck and I hope you find away.

 

[Elsewhere]

Yes, often the latest drivers are buggy. I remember a quite recent Catalyst version that hang the machine on a simple OpenGL display list call, which is a very basic operation and really should work in all circumstances. But then again, in my experience the "funny driver behavior" and crashes are quite often due to less-than-stellar programming practices like not initializing something an operation needs, not checking for errors, or even depending on driver bugs ("it works here on my machine, let's ship it").

But, if the CTD behavior is a driver issue, why is it that a lot of people experience it, on all kinds of systems with all kinds of drivers and hardware combinations?

And, as far as dual booting goes, I'm not willing to spend the effort of setting up different operating systems and trying out combinations that might or might not fix the issue for me. I'll rather wait for better drivers, or a patch that will fix whatever it is that causes the crash. Civilization IV is the first game I've bought in years, and the other game I sometimes play (Tetris) runs quite fine with my regular setup I can wait.

 

[Phyr_Negator]

Patch! It's coming! It's Coming! Push!Push!!PUSH! FIRAXIS! Oh...miscarriage...well, all we have to do is to wait only 9 months.

 

[TSteamer]

All I'm asking is that those with problems just accept the "possibility" that it is their machine and not the software that is the problem.

This isnt a really vocal minority with old frankensteined together systems here. This is a wide spread, systematic failure on a whole market swath of video card users. Many of the most vocal folks here have absolutely mindblowing rigs--and the bloody game wont work. Thats why they are so vocal!

Oh, and before the complainers whine that "Your just another fanboy showoff because your game works", I spent a week on these boards before I got the game trying to help people who had problems by pointing out a lot of similarities to the issues I had with 3dmark etc. Some listened, most didnt. Its not my fault that those that didnt listen werent helped.

I applaud you for your proactivity helping those folks who had old-drivers/only 512MB of RAM, etc, but at this point, you cant help most of us unless you are a Firaxis programmer or a Take Two QA tester.

Things the patch wont fix:
1. Your dodgy memory stick
2. Your out-of-date mobo bios version
3. Your buggy graphics driver version
4. Your undercooled CPU/GPU
5. Your modem card plugged into slot 2 and conflicting with your AGP port
6. etc

Things the patch will fix:
1. The rabid posting here. The volume of posts be reduced to the folks you are talking about. I.e., "My P-IV 833Mhz w/ 256MB of RAM and a 64MB video card wont run CIV IV..."
2. The game should run as expected on P-IV 2.66G w/ 768 MB of Ram and a 256 MB Video Card--not making it seize like a crack addict"
3. The Civfanatic community's relations with the Civ Franchise

 

[blue3c]

"Oh please. It’s not illegal to release unfinished software even if they DID know it was unfinished (asmuing in fact it IS unfinished), if it was Microsoft would have been stormed by the military long ago."

Actually it is in both the UK and USA. If you knowingly sell a product that advertises one thing but is not that. Then yes you open yourself up for class action lawsuits. I believe its callled consumer fraud. Not sure. SOmething around those lines.
Second the military can not operate on US grounds. DOH. Kinda blows that point.

Sadan01-
I have several computers here. Ranging from an old P3 1.0 to a p4 3.4. I have tried several different setups on all these and I get the same thing. CTD after large amounts of lag. I even tried saving when it starts to lag a little. Get the same thing when I restart. One two turns lag and bam.
Why would someone reformat. Easy. Hard crashes which cause you to have to power down your computer can hose the os files. Once the os is hosed you have two options. reformat and start from scratch. Or do a windows repari installation. It is always best to just reformat. Hopefully in this case you have a restore disk or have done back ups. either way, its alot of work and it is headaches and heartaches. Powering down like that can also have long term effects on your HDD. You can actually do damage to sectors on your hdd by power down like that.
Sorry I guess I didn't point out that in an earlier post someone had to reinstall after a hard crash. That is what I was talking about. There is no way to prove that his drive was not just ready to go. There is no way to prover civ caused it. I was just givign a little advice for next time. Cause it does suck when that happens to anyone.

 

[jestingwolf]

I'm not really blaming the game (in fact, until I came here it never even crossed my mind that it could be a software problem). What I am not overly happy with is the fact that my system is above minimum requirements and on par with recommended requirements (except the processor clock speed which stands at 1.7ghz for me) and it is taking an outrageously long time for me to load a saved game (7 minutes on average).

Granted, I had only tried a huge map and will see if the performance gets better with other sizes of maps.

My system is a P4, 1.7GHz with GeForce FX5600 128, 512mb RAM. I find I seem to be running out of virtual memory quite quickly and was wondering if I should increase the size of the page file (or whatever it is called) - it currently stands at 366mb (as I stated in another post). Or maybe I should just upgrade it?

So no, I do not complain about the software side of things, but seeing as I am a computer illiterate when it comes to those things, I do need help to figure out how to tweak my system for optimum performance.

 

[Dida]

"Oh please. It’s not illegal to release unfinished software even if they DID know it was unfinished (asmuing in fact it IS unfinished), if it was Microsoft would have been stormed by the military long ago."

YOu cannot seriously compare Civ4 to Windows. MS Windows was released in much better shape than Civ4.

 

[blue3c]

Dida, please read further up in the posts. I was quoting someone else.

jesting,
Your swap file should be 1.5 x your total ram. min. or if you do not know how to change it or if you have the free space and so on. I would let windows manage it. Again that is only if you do not know what to do. Next if you are running xp it is a good rule to have at least 1gb of mem. 512 will get you by. I suggest purchasing more mem.

 

[Ludo62]

Has everyone running windows XP and 2000 thought of downloading the .net frame work update (can be found at windows update) which is needed for the mid to upper range video cards and their respectable drivers. I downloaded the .net update and haven't had a problem since.

Ludo

 

[Padma]

Padma, you and others have said it works for more then it doesn't. I have asked this before, but I will ask again. Where do you get such data. Did you poll a group who purchased the game. Or are you just assuming. Please if you have a poll or this data then post it. Otherwise don't assume that it works for more then it doesn't. Scrolling around this forum and others I see more people posting problems then oh its great. I will give you the whole if it works they are playing and not posting. But, without some solid data no one can say either way.

It is admittedly a SWAG - a "Scientific Wild-A$$ed Guess". Based on the fact that this site (or *any* site) sees only a small fraction of the people who buy/play the game, and that only a small minority (a very vocal minority, but a minority, none-the-less) here are experiencing game-stopping problems.

Dida: I would argue that Microsoft has never released a product as good and stable as Civ4, but that's a topic for another thread (and forum).

 

[Venger]

Things the patch wont fix:

1. Your dodgy memory stick
2. Your out-of-date mobo bios version
3. Your buggy graphics driver version
4. Your undercooled CPU/GPU
5. Your modem card plugged into slot 2 and conflicting with your AGP port
6. etc

The fact that these things can hide in what "appears" to be a working computer doesnt change the fact that they are the computers issues.

As I've stated elsewhere, I upgraded my computer (For Oblivion and X3) with a new graphics card and and extra stick of 512mb ram, before Civ 4 was released.

In order to test my newly configured system, I downloaded and ran Aquamark and 3dmark05 (must be the 2005 version not the older 03 version). Both needed Dx9.0c so this was downloaded and installed from Microsoft. Both of them stress Dx9.0c more than any game released to date. Neither of them would run once they switched to 3d mode - both instantly hung my PC needing a hard reboot.

I didnt blame either piece of software.

Enough, another dimestore computer repairman letting the world know how people with problems running Civ4 need to roll up their sleeves and fix their rickety setup...

Perhaps if you didn't

1) Buy off-brand garage sale RAM
2) Get a Bucky's NoNami motherboard
3) Install beta driver releases
4) Skimp on your CPU cooler
5) Still run on bloody dialup
6) etc

You wouldn't have had to overhaul your machine. Seeing as a great many people have NONE of those issues, and yet, still have a problem with Civ4, indicates just how wrongheaded each and every knucklehead who presumes to diagnose by fiat truly is.

I've said this ONE HUNDRED TIMES - when the system runs without a flaw every other program it's given, meets or exceeds the recommended system requirements, but doesn't run with ONE game - guess what? It's LIKELY THAT ONE GAME.

The fact that there is a patch coming out that ACKNOWLEDGES these issues puts the lie to your ill-considered position.

Now that Thanksgiving break is here, there'll be more high school wannabe Geek Squad types letting the world know how l33t their kIlla PC skILLz are shock the world with their insight into just why Civ4 won't run... at least, once you unpack the graphics files for ATI cards and what not, obviously a "dodgy stick of RAM" or "outdated BIOS" problem there...

Venger

 

[blue3c]

After reading the post on the civ iv offical website again. I am guessing we are looking at maybe two more weeks or more till the patch. Ok Ok I know I prob just started a hail storm here. But hear me out. The game is full of bugs whether one wants to admit it or not. Some of these bugs will crash some systems and some will make the game, well a little easy for some folks. The list of bugs they are addressing, yes it is vague, but it seems to be covering the whole game. It almost sounds like a rewrite to me. So my guess is this will be one huge patch. If I am right, this means, at least I hope it means they will test it extensivly. Which in itself should take a week or so. Then back to the coders for some fun in the sun tweaks and back to testing. So I will guess the patch is at least two weeks away. Go ahead bash away.

 

[Sunwolf]

Perhaps if you didn't

5) Still run on bloody dialup

Venger

You know some of us don't have any affordable choice other than dialup, and unless you are playing multi-player your internet connection should be irrelevant.

 

[King Flevance]

Oy. I finally got back in town, checked for patch, slept, woke up, checked for patch, and find myself again watching the 'Backyardigans' (I love their little song skits for some reasons. Those lil animals are groovy.) and reading my favorite thread.

I vote not to close this thread down, and when the patch is released and we finally get this game working we mail it to Take 2.

YOu cannot seriously compare Civ4 to Windows. MS Windows was released in much better shape than Civ4.

Just posting it cause I love that quote. It needs double posting.

Mazruk & Elsewhere, you both brought up some good points, and mostly stated our current situation in a more detailed fashion. I am the hated ATI user.
My drivers were available before CIV 4's release and are the 'newest' available still. I have reconfigured also, but havent found a setup that has changed anything... as far as Civ is concerned. Hehe.. I have been out of the tech circle for quite a few years myself. Almost disabled all my video by not paying attention.
However, I am ready to announce my machine is the problem. At this point I don't care what the problem is. I just want it fixed. My main complaint is that Firaxis/Take 2 (mostly) isn't here supporting their game that was released. The point is Take 2 don't give a about us.
Even if the patch won't help we few unluckies, how about posting some 'suggestions' for us to try? Or an FAQ 'auto-remail' system troubleshooter for all who send in problems? This Thursday will be a month from the games release and all we have gotten was a letter saying 'We have a patch.'
This is not OK people!

Put down the banners and acknowledge the company the people with problems. You jumping in and backing them for doing so doesn't make that arguement right. It makes it the majority.
Just because only a few are going through problems and being crapped on by the company doesn't mean the company is in the right for doing so. They are not expending their resources so much they cant offer help. The real deal is, 'tech-support' costs money, more so the more effort they put in it. So whats the best way to do this cost efficiently? Make an email address where MILLIONS of people send in emails and have a group of maybe 20ish people there just to answer that enormous account. (1% of all buyers = alot of people probably in the 10k's in worldwide releases easy)
This makes for insufficient tech support people. I mean just go to http://www.civiv.com and look at the POS support page. Even the 3 links they posted for possible solutions arent enough to cover a decent amount of people having issues. The fact here is they wanted full price for the game to us unluckies yet only offer a dime in support.

As a side note a poll was done on how many people ran this game flawlessly out-of-the-box and those who had to reconfigure-couldn't play
It was 52-48 I believe. So half of the buyers had NO problems. And half had to with their systems. These numbers are only based off those on this board who took the poll but still it holds some insight. Where some people it worked flawlessly on and never come here to post there ARE people the game wouldn't work for and they probably went to CivIV.com for help and never came here to post.

I am well aware this patch very easily will not fix my game. What do I do then? I can't turn to the makers they are beginning to obviously point out. Yes, the game is great and fun to play even through all kinds of weird things. But when you know the people that took 60 bucks from you (58.84 to be exact after taxes) for this game wont offer you so much as a peek at where to look to be on the right track, its a lil frustrating and you are going to get a distaste for them.
This is not aimed at everyone that is Die Hard for this game. Just the ones who brow beat those of us with problems. They know who they are. Basically, if you look down on people that don't have a working game and post about it, this is you. Please don't quote that line and bring up that some people post and don't try to fix it first.
I have friends that dont know how to install RAM ok? And its simply because they don't want to know how. Yes, its their fault they have so many issues but if you know about computers you know these people will try to learn about computer as less as possible because they have you around or someone like you that always seems to get crap working. They OWN game consoles because of this but guess what? Civ 4 isnt on X-box or anything so you can't tell them to use consoles either as your so-called 'whitty comeback'.
As for those of us that can't seem to figure anything out as I said, we have no resources to draw off of. Other than the righteous 'Dennis Shirk' update that didn't update rather than state the obvious. I aint mad at Dennis, he did what Take 2 big whigs told him to do. But that post is equivelant to cow dung to me. This information was 'leaked' the week of release. My arguement still is based on no 'real' help for anyone with issues is available. We are just a bunch of blind people running around in the dark to figure out their game we paid the same amount for as the people that have light and the game works fine for.
I could go further but this post has already went on long enough.

I appreciate any help from anyone willing to help. I have tried many people's suggestions and found no solution. However, I was allowed hope for another few hours.
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