Five Take On The World (Conquests, Deity)

[Greebley]

30% sounds better to me. I have tried 20% on deity and has some really difficult starts. I would prefer to have more choice for our cities.

I am pretty flexible on the barbs. If I had to choose I would say Roaming, but Sedentary or Random are fine with me as well. I like to choose random now and then so I learn how to deal with barb of unknown intensity. It does add to the challenge though.

 

[Nad]

I think we have enough agreement to start . Gozpel, you stated that you wished to start, so I'll assume you're very good at opening turns . Start the game as soon as you're ready.

Use the following parameters to roll the start:

Map size: standard
Mass: pangaea, 70% water
Conditions: random

Civ: Ottomans
Opponents: 7 random
Barbs: sedentary
Aggression: normal
Difficulty: Deity

Use default rules, but uncheck respawn and culture-linked starts.

Please use the first start you generate unless it is absolutely dreadful.

Roster:

Gozpel
Nad
Greebley
Aggie
Hotrod
Open
Open

Flexible hours to play, we'll use the 24/48 as a guideline rather than a rule.

Good luck! We're gonna need it!

 

[gozpel]

With 30% landmass we might even get a lux or two, plus we will have a better chance to grab resources as well.

People seem to like the Ottomans, they won't be too late as I said before. Their strength might be our success. Imagine a world where we have Sipahi's agaist us!

 

[Nad]

One important point I have not yet mentioned Gozpel: please use patch version 1.15! That is the patch this game will run on.

 

[gozpel]

I'm using 1.15, I won't be able to download 24 megs on this jumpy outback server in the near future

I start soon and will take the first decent map I see.
Which means: river and a couple of BG's. Without a river we're absolutely toast, we need commerce and without those BG's we can't build anything in good time.

I'll play the first 20 or 25 turns, depending on how it goes, if that's ok?

 

[Nad]

NO!

Restarting to get a nice starting position is NOT acceptable...if we don't have a river, we live with it. If we don't have the bonus grasslands we want, we live with it. Reload only if you get a mostly tundra/mountain/jungle start. Not having a river is not a justifiable reason.

EDIT: play 20-30 turns, however much you feel you need to get us rolling.

 

[gozpel]

Ok, understood!

I got it and will start right away. And with the first map I get, scouts honor.

"Not having a river is not a justifiable reason." - mutters something about empty pockets and walks away.

 

[gozpel]

Just another question before I start, is Wonder Victory default?

I always had that turned off, so do we want that or not?

 

[Nad]

No, it is not.

The easiest way is simply to click "default rules" and then uncheck "culture-linked starts" and "respawn AI civ".

 

[gozpel]

Thanks for the quick answer, I get it started now

 

[gozpel]

First the Save


I pick the chosen settings and we get this:

4000bc - Move worker on to hill NE to have a look and we find this:

Move settler to the same hill.

3950bc - Istanbul is founded, pops the GH and get a warrior named Bubba. He moves E and see a game near coast. Worker SW to BG. First build is a warrior.
Research at max on Pottery - 27 turns.

3900bc - Worker mine BG. Bubba coninues E.

3850bc - Bubba climbs a hill and finds 2 ivory!

3800bc - He goes N, finds lots of forests.

3750bc - More of the same.

3700bc - Istanbul warrior -> spearman. The new warrior Drongo goes NE, spots a GH.
Worker finish mine, road.

3650bc - Bubba finds silks NE of town. What's going on?

3600bc - Worker finish road, move to wheat. Drongo ignores the GH, this is Deity and 99.3% chance of barbs...or something close to it Bubba continues E.

3550bc - Worker start mining wheat.

3500bc - Just more scouting, Bubba sees another GH.

3450bc - Istanbuls borders expand, pop 2 and luxes 10% for a turn.

3400bc - Istanbul spearman -> settler. Drongo meets a hoplite, the Greeks have Alphabet and CB, no trade. Bubba circles around the GH, but better leave it alone, I rather have a live scout.

3350bc - Worker finish mine, road.

3300bc - Drongo sees Greece borders N.

3250bc - Worker finished improving wheat, moves to road another BG

3200bc - IT - Greeks are building Colossus.
Bubba spots an incense way east.

3150bc - Bubba say hello to an Scandinavian warrior, they know Alpabet and WC. No Trade.

3100bc - IT - Greece completes Colossus! They know IW too.
Istanbul pop 3, luxtax 10%.

3050bc - Istanbul settler -> spear. Settler towards silks.

3000bc - Turn off research, I will try to get IW...Masonry, Pottery, 2 gpt and 12g is close.

2950bc - Bubba spots purple borders.
Give Greeks Masonry, Pottery, 3 gpt and 6g for IW.
IW and Masonry to Vikings for Alphabet, WC and 20g.
WC to Alexander for CB and 16g.

Minimum research on Maths.

The only iron is near Greece borders. Think a second of grabbing it with the settler, but I decide to go for the silks. I don't want them intimidated just yet.

2900bc - I shouldn't bother thinking, greek settler moves next to the iron.
Annoy them a little by blocking their path with Drongo.

Vikings knows the Wheel.

2850bc - Edrine founded on silks -> warrior. Greek settler moves east, away from iron.

2800bc - Bubba meets the Iroquois, they have everything we have plus the Wheel and Mysticism. No trade.

2750bc - IT - Greeks are building Pyramids.

2710bc - ---

2670bc - Istanbul spearman -> settler. Move new spear to Edrine. Silks connected.

2630bc - Edrine warrior -> worker. Move new warrior named Spud to iron. He will together with Drongo try to block any settling attempts from Greece.

I buy the Wheel from Vikings for CB, 3 gpt and 57g.
We have a horse SE of Istanbul!

2590bc - ---

2550bc - Nothing.


I was greedy and played 30 turns. No, I wanted our settler to get those silks and to divert the greek settler.

Our next settler will be done in 5 turns (maybe 4 when the second BG is mined), so where to send him?
We can try the iron, but there are those jumbos to the east, we don't want them stolen from under our noses.

We are on par with the Greeks, down Mysticism on Iroqouis and Scandinavia.
We are paying Greece 3 gpt for another 11 turns and Vikings 3 gpt for 18 turns.
I thought it was important to know where the resources are, so we can grab them.

We have a kingdomly treasure of 11 gold and we make 2gpt atm.

 

[Aggie]

Ivory!!

I would settle on the coast NE of the game and then near the ivory/horses.

 

[gozpel]

Next player will have the interesting choice of where to put the next city. Iron mountain is NNE of edrine, where the warriors are.

I didn't have time to scout our SE properly, because of my spear-builds, I should've built warriors instead. Money was an issue though, before we got our second town.

One tile up from the top ivory is a good spot I think, it has game and 2 BG's and will reach the fish after expansion. But a city there would need aqueduct.

S of the horse might be another spot...I wish I had scouted that area.

Then NW of Istanbul, we have a couple of BG's.

I would like to go for the iron, but that city will be slightly cramped. W of the mountain.

Ah well, not my best set of turns, it's still what we have.

 

[gozpel]

Originally posted by Aggie
Ivory!!

My thoughts exactly

I never built that wonder...Zeus. I only finished one SG so far in C3C and a couple of my own, but I never had the pleasure to try out that wonder yet.

I wonder if the computer reimbursed us somehow with luxes, when we didn't get water at the start?

 

[Nad]

Interesting start, good trading .

Given the proximity of the Greeks I think you perhaps did the right thing in skipping the granary for Istanbul and getting straight on to settlers.

3 luxes in reach, + horses is excellent. I doubt we'll get Zeus, this is a pangaea and there are bound to be more ivory sources elsewhere which other civs will get....we might try though!

As for iron...we have to have it, but we can't afford to found a half-city to claim it . This is going to be an extremely difficult game and we have to have 5 full cities. I think the best option might be to abandon Edrine and refound ...it sounds drastic, but we only have to move it one tile north for the iron to be in our cultural control...unfortunately that would mean moving off the river...it requires a major decision...what do you think team?

I would like a city on the coast northeast of the game, but unfortunately that will conflict with a Greek city, when we really need all tiles available to us, and at deity I doubt we could win the cultural battle.

4the city will clearly be to grab ivory + horse. 5th city...no outstanding site, somewhere north of Istanbul? Or maybe an early limited war against Greece to raze and replace a city? we have much to ponder and discuss.

Got it.

 

[Aggie]

Abandonning Edrine and refounding it one tile north is an option. I agree that we need it for Knights. I also agree that a city NW probably isn't a good idea.

Where is that third city you want to found, if you scratch the game site?

 

[gozpel]

You're right Nad, I was thinking granary and did the normal Pottery research. The silks and green borders too close made me think hard and the choice could only be settler as fast as possible.

This dotmap is just a transfer of my thoughts from the game and how I would try to play it:

Northern dot is way too close to Greece, the other 2 dots will need aqueducts. Not very good spots, but at least they are cities and we can start focus on infrastructure and military.

If we "move" Edrine it will be out of whack and lose good river tiles. It's not like we are rolling around in a goldpile
I even placed Edrine ON the silks for that extra commerce.

There is a sneaky way to get that iron tho, build a couple of more units and fortify them around the iron-mountain and send a worker to build a colony. I don't know how this is regarded towards the rules though?

 

[Nad]

Five Take On The World

btw, please name save files as "5vsworld[year]"

Inherited turn, 2550BC

Top priority is to find out more about our terrain so we can get 5 cities down as quickly as possible. Already this is looking very cramped.

Wake Istanbul's spear to scout the south coast.

I'm not going to build any infrastructure in Edrine until we've decided whether or not to keep it...my current inclination is to refound one tile further north after founding the other cities. IMHO it is worth moving off the river to secure the iron.

IT: grey warrior moves into view, see a Greek settler pair.

Turn 1, 2510BC: Indians have 5 cities already and are up mysticism.

move the spear out of Edrine to help run blockades of Greek settlers if necessary...I do not want the Greeks to secure the iron by founding another city with the iron in its first ring.

Iroquois have learned horseback riding.

Turn 2, 2470BC: lux to 10%, still exploring. The Vikings have also picked up hbr, despite the 2fer being available we are in no position to broker.

IT: Edrine worker ----------> warrior

Turn 3, 2430BC: new worker mines bg

IT: blue warrior moves into view.

Istanbul settler ----------> granary

Indians building Oracle

Turn 4, 2390BC: America is up mysticism and hbr. Lux to 0%.

Turn 5, 2350BC: 2fer still available but we don't have the cash to broker.

Turn 6, 2310BC: Iroquois already have ivory hooked so we can forget about Zeus.

Greece has a monopoly on maths...there goes that gambit

Turn 7, 2270BC: it's already clear we will be up against it...land is being filled very quickly.

IT: Edrine warrior ----------> warrior

Turn 8, 2230BC: America has writing at monopoly. The tech pace is furious, already we're struggling to stay in the brokering loop.

Turn 9, 2190BC: Found Bursa near the game forest, start temple in the hope we can gain cultural dominance over the overlap tiles.

IT: here comes a Greece settler headed for the iron

Turn 10, 2150BC: 4th city position is going to be tricky, it will overlap with either Istanbul or Bursa or both. 30% land isn't supposed to be this packed, is it?

Iroquois also have writing.

Turn 11, 2110BC: Greece per-turn deal ends, but we still don't have enough to broker.

IT: Vikings building Oracle, Greek settler still coming our way despite my best attempts to block the tiles I think they are headed for.

Turn 12, 2070BC: more unit shuffles.

IT: Edrine warrior ----------> settler

Greeks building Oracle.

Turn 13, 2030BC: We can now buy into hbr but it would leave us broke, and I doubt the Greeks would accept it for mysticism. Besides, I do not want to tie our cash up in this minor broker for not particularly useful techs. I will hold, writing is the tech we desperately wish to buy into.

IT: forest chop helps Bursa temple.

Greece settler pair outmanouvering the couple of units I have there.

Turn 14, 1990BC: block as best I can, at least prevent the Greeks from settling with iron in first ring.

IT: Greek settler heads past iron

Turn 15, 1950BC: Blocks seem to have worked, I think Greece will instead go for the area north of Istanbul though.

Turn 16, 1910BC: Greece and Iroquois have traded, maths is spread, the Greeks are up with the tech leaders. Still we can't broker, but deal Gozpel made with Vikes shortly to end.

IT: Greek settler changes course, heads south Please not for the ivory...

Turn 17, 1870BC: block settler again

IT: phew, moves northwest again...

Turn 18, 1830BC: finally we can broker!

22g + 15gpt to Greece for maths.

Maths + 31g to India for hbr + mysticism

Maths + 38g to America for writing.

Writing to India for 32g.

We're broke, but equal in tech. We're up maths on the Vikes, India is up polytheism on everyone.

Start min science on literature, unfortunately this puts us at -2gpt with just 40 in the kitty...the next 20 turns will be a real struggle to make ends meet (let's face it, this whole game is going to be a real struggle!).

IT: Istanbul granary ----------> settler

Indians building Artemis.

Turn 19, 1790BC:

IT: another forest chop helps Bursa temple.

Greeks finally found Argos, claiming the northern gap that could have been our 5th city...

Iroquois start Zeus

Turn 20, 1750BC: temple in Bursa whipped, Delphi has not yet expanded borders, so we may just claim cultural superiority...

Iroquois and India now both have polytheism and map making

just a few thoughts...

blue dots...either one of those for city #4...on the ivory means one less overlap, but makes the city more of a fishing village...I would prefer the full blue dot, but either is fine.

Where do we found our 5th city? I have no idea, but the pink circle is just one possibility...steal a far away iron? But that city would be very difficult to defend and would be a big flip-risk.

Red dot...should we refound Edrine here? It would secure the iron (yellow circle) but moves off the river and has one tile overlap with Sparta (green circle). Or should we keep it as it is, hope the Greeks don't settle near it, and run a colony instead, as gozpel suggests? Again, i'm really not sure, I'm inclined towards refounding but could easily be swayed by a good argument...

Watch the cash situation too...we can save 2gpt by killing research, but a 50-turn run on lit may just pay off...It's gonna be tough.



Do keep searching for the missing 2 civs. Good luck juggling the cash...





THE SAVE

15 turns each for the rest of the 1st round, please, then 10 turns each 2nd round onwards.

Gozpel
Nad...just played
Greebley...UP NOW
Aggie...ON DECK
Hotrod...gonna play on Friday, I think

BTW, I'm off in the morning and will be away until next Tuesday...please skip me until then.

Good luck and plenty of discussion is required!

 

[Greebley]

Ok, I got it. I am going to wait until tomorrow to play for discussion purposes.

My current plan is to move Edrine North 1 and to settle the solid light blue dot on Nads Map.

For the fifth town, maybe we could consider a conquered town in the future? For now we build a worker factory or such. I am not sure when war will occur.

I am glad we didn't choose 20% land.

Another thought: Steal persia's cow? the city would be massively squeezed, but is not within the "immediate war with an AI" zone (Civ distance 2). It would be a good city if we took out the persian cities at a future date. It would also be on the Northern coast. I am considering E or SE of the cow for this.

We could combine these ideas; the cow town builds workers until we capture something better

 

[gozpel]

I was thinking of moving the settler one or more turns, but then the Greek settler showed up with 3 escorts.

So I made the best choice at the time, by building a city with great potential at the right distance from the capital, on the best spot at the time to gain an extra commerce after my wild trades.

I'm not totally against the Edrine move, not now, but I still think my northern dot (though crowded) will fit the purpose of what we're are about to do now.

It won't be a "half-city", it will have 5 grass-tiles after a rushed temple and the iron. I build these kind of cities quite often and they work great as long as they are not too far away from the capital. Which this spot is not.

We can still settle on that spot (northern dot) and if we fill in with a few workers, we can whip a temple fairly quick.

I usually plop down cities where they seem to fit and where they can do their best for the game in the long run. Therefore the dotmap.

Well, that was my defense, mates.

But this is a team effort of great proportions and if the team wants Edrine to be moved, then we move it. I'm not fussed by being over-ruled, I have been proven wrong before at least once.

I say stack up a few units there and build a colony!

Otherwise, I like the tech-trading, sometimes it costs a bit to get on par and sometimes we have to live with that fact. This is Deity.

Pink dot is totally out of whack, better to try the cow as Greebley thought was Persias. I like to read turnlogs and hope fellow partners think the same.

The granary? I didn't count food, but hopefully it will let us get 5 spots, I would've gone for settlers up to 5 cities, then the granary. Prime land is not for sale anymore and Greeks snuck in a town to the NW, which one of our settlers easily could have taken.

Hey that made me think (Ouch that hurt) what are we to do with eventual flips? Can we take the cities and abandon them, or just give it back. We could even if first was a choice, give the city to another Civ?