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[RD] Florida School Shooting

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Hrothbern, Feb 15, 2018.

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  1. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Cue the NRA parrot chorus for a rousing rendition of "registration is just a pathway to confiscation."
     
  2. Chose

    Chose King

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    He said we need to fix the existing issues in our processes and actually gave several specific issues that could be improved. Claiming that is the same as him saying nothing needs to be done, or hiding the fact that he deep down thinks nothing needs to be done, is simply not acknowledging what he said and assigning secret motives to him.

    I've seen more than you could possibly imagine, buddy :)
     
  3. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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  4. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Actually, it is, because really fixing the problems he identifies is not really feasible under the current framework (prohibitively expensive both in monetary terms and probably in terms of real resources e.g trained personnel as well). Identifying real problems while proposing what you know to be non-solutions is a time-honored tactic of dealers in bad faith.
     
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  5. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Plenty of people out there think more people armed = less gun violence. There are large numbers of people saying we need to arm teachers, even students, or hire veterans to guard schools, ignoring the fact that the Parkland shooting happened at a school with armed security.
     
  6. Arwon

    Arwon

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    It's funny, I've heard anecdotally that even our gangland shootings tend to have surprisingly low body counts because as well as having less powerful weapons, criminals with illegal guns aren't likely to be training at shooting clubs. So they're often inexperienced with them and lousy shots.
     
  7. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Not effective armed security. What we need is a program like the air marshals, where every classroom has a 'ringer' student armed and ready to take on any hijackers. This may be more of a challenge in elementary schools than high schools.

    Cue the NRA parrot course for a rousing rendition of "see, more guns is the answer."
     
  8. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    There was actually a really good tweet thread where someone was talking about the death of Chris Kyle as a response to the "more people armed = less gun violence" thing. Chris Kyle is the guy the film American Sniper was based on. He and friend were killed with Kyle's guns, while armed, by a guy he knew ahead of time was dangerous and might try to kill him.

    The idea of these clowns who think they're better at identifying threats and shooting them than Chris Kyle running around with guns, their heads full of "good guy with a gun" fantasies, is bone-chilling.
     
  9. Synsensa

    Synsensa - Retired Moderator

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    I've seen this argument a lot myself. Many schools have armed security and it is almost never a benefit to the children or the crime rate. Guns are a pretty clear escalation for all involved parties.
     
  10. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

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    According to a study done on assaults perpetrated in Pennsylvannia from 2003 to 2006, it's been stated that individuals in possession of a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession. Here's the full report of the study:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759797/
     
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  11. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Yes, and this kind of thing is was all the research shows. The American Academy of Pediatricians officially recommends not to have a gun in the house because it's dangerous for children. All the research demonstrates that the likelihood of being shot with your own gun (or shooting someone in your own family) is far, far greater than the likelihood you'll use it to shoot or scare off a home intruder.

    By the way @Commodore here is what a paper from the American Pediatric Association says about gun violence:
     
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  12. Synsensa

    Synsensa - Retired Moderator

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    Somewhat related to Tim's points about the NRA... Dinesh D'Souza is not a great person.

    https://twitter.com/pattymo/status/966079862183260160

    Yikes. I don't know how someone can say things like this. I don't know how people can read someone saying things like this and actually nod their head along with it.

    It's worrisome that some, many, people wear opinions like these as badges of honour.
     
  13. chijohnaok

    chijohnaok King

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    would background checks still be a requirement under your solution (as I did not see any mention of it)
     
  14. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Well, I figured most people would recognize that a properly vetted buyer wouldn't be just someone who has been taken to a veterinarian recently.
     
  15. Chose

    Chose King

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    So if someone makes proposals that you personally believe are not feasible, that somehow demonstrates that they actually secretly want to do nothing and must be arguing in bad faith. Completely reinterpreting what someone said, in light of your imagination of their motives, is perhaps the most common tactic of those arguing in bad faith.
     
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  16. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    The only one reinterpreting what was said is you. If you choose to believe it's just that I 'personally believe' these proposals are not feasible, that's your affair, but it's simply not true. I'm not arguing in bad faith, you just don't like the opinions I'm honestly stating.
     
  17. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    cops carry guns, are they more likely to be shot?
     
  18. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    More likely than what to be shot?
     
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  19. chijohnaok

    chijohnaok King

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    Just to be clear here, my comments (I have now lived in the State of Florida for 17+ years. Florida does not have a requirement to obtain a license/permit before purchasing a firearm. You still must undergo a background check. And if you wish to "conceal carry" your firearm, then you do have to apply for a permit for that (and undergo another background check, as well as go through a firearms training class).have nothing at all to do with gun sales or transfers of guns that I no longer want.

    To restate/clarify my comments:
    1) I want to purchase a firearm as a Florida resident, I first have to undergo the NICS background screening before I can purchase that firearm.
    2) I decide that I want to be able to "conceal carry" (“Concealed firearm” means any firearm, as defined in subsection (6), which is carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the firearm from the ordinary sight of another person.) that weapon, I have to apply to the State of Florida for a "concealed carry" license. I have to pass a state background check for this, complete a firearms safety course and pay an application fee. Once that license is approved then I may conceal carry that weapon when I am out (in a hidden holster, in a pocket, in a purse if you are female and/or carry one, etc).

    My post had nothing to do with guns that I own and am no longer interested in having. .
     
  20. Chose

    Chose King

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    I don't mind any of your opinions on this topic. So far I have found I mostly agree with them. What I find dishonest is how you interact with those on the other side.

    You seem to have missed the point with the "personally believe" part. For what you said to be true, that what he said is in bad faith and equivalent to saying do nothing, it isn't enough that you believe the proposals are not feasible, or even that they truly are not feasible, you would have to show chijohnoak knows and believes they are not feasible, which there is not a single shred of evidence for that whatsoever.
     
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