Flynn cops a plea

Alan Dershowitz says Trump cant be impeached for obstructing justice... Was that his position on Nixon and Clinton? One was and the other resigned first. Maybe that was his position.

I still dont think this will result in anything serious, not 'collusion' anyway... It aint like Trump asked Russia to rig machines. I dont know that collusion can be defined to include a quid quo pro involving relief from sanctions for Russian help. Flynn's problem is with a Turkish bribe to get a dissident sent back to Turkey for 15 million. Thats slimy... I cant imagine he's done something worse.
 
Berzerker said:
I dont know that collusion can be defined to include a quid quo pro involving relief from sanctions for Russian help.
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Well, since it is technically illegal for a campaign or candidate to ask for or receive "Russian help" there isn't really any concern about specific definitions of the word collusion. The reason people are looking for the quid pro quo isn't "to prove collusion" as some sort of legal victory in itself. Whether you call it 'collusion' or 'quid pro quo' or 'the art of the deal' the point is that it demonstrates that they knowingly accepted "Russian help," possibly even asked for it. Even more interesting, the apparent "Russian help" that was possibly asked for and received was in the form of information that was itself obtained by the Russians illegally.
 
It was interesting when Trump asked Russia to release Hillary's emails. At the time I thought it was an 'innocent' request but subsequent events show they were a bit more involved ;)

I dont think the Dems will gain enough in the House to threaten impeachment, but thats not really relevant to whether or not Trump should be impeached.
 
Berzerker said:
It was interesting when Trump asked Russia to release Hillary's emails. At the time I thought it was an 'innocent' request but subsequent events show they were a bit more involved ;)
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Meanwhile everyone else was wondering how a presidential candidate can openly plot treason on live TV and get away with it.
 
Yeah unfortunately impeachment has no real value. He has to be impeached in the house and then convicted by the 2/3rds of the Senate. Clinton showed that an impeachment doesn't necessarily mean the end to the President's policy agenda. It doesn't help but it is not the end we really need. We need a conviction which isn't going to happen because it's virtually impossible for the Democrats to take the Senate back in 2018 no matter how bad things get for the Republicans.
 
Not if it means 3 more years of this level of corruption and incompetence. Not if it leaves unsettled the question of what crimes a President can commit and get away with. Not if it means 3 more years of international humiliation and backsliding on environmental commitments.
 
The ideal result is a Democratic party majority in both houses, so we can get some legislation done that isn't scrawled on the back of a cocktail napkin with "gotta pass something, hope this works" in the title block. Then they can use their majority to threaten Trump with signing the stuff or being impeached. By the time two years of that go by the GOP will be so horribly discredited that we won't have to deal with them for a while.
 
It would have to be a super majority to overcome an override. If that's the case they should just impeach and convict him. Then they can pass laws and override Pence's vetoes.
 
hobbsyoyo said:
It would have to be a super majority to overcome an override. If that's the case they should just impeach and convict him. Then they can pass laws and override Pence's vetoes.
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Pence is GOP as a principle, Trump is GOP as a convenience. If a Democrat controlled congress presented him legislation on the "or we could just spend our time on impeachment hearings that would tarnish you even further" then Trump would sign what Pence would not.
 
I don't think Trump would give a rat's patoot about impeachment. Impeachment without removal is nothing more than a shaming and Trump is incapable of being shamed, shameless.
 
Timsup2nothin said:
Pence is GOP as a principle, Trump is GOP as a convenience. If a Democrat controlled congress presented him legislation on the "or we could just spend our time on impeachment hearings that would tarnish you even further" then Trump would sign what Pence would not.
Click to expand...
Pence would be irrelevant. They could override his vetos more easily than they could push an impeachment through. If they can do the latter then the former isn't a problem. Certainly it wouldn't be worth it to keep Trump around instead of trying and convicting him of treason in court after impeachment.
 
The point is that they wouldn't have to override vetoes with D'ump. Play to his vanity, make him feel like big man with the pen, and all you need is simple majorities to send him legislation.
 
Berzerker said:
I may be wrong but I thought impeachment actually helped Clinton by making the GOP look petty and partisan
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It certainly helped that they were going after him for having an affair, not for treason and obstruction of justice. They had also been going after him for 6 or 7 years at that point and instigating non-stop investigations in what was a real witch hunt.
 
FRANKFURT - U.S. Special Counsel Robert Mueller has asked Deutsche Bank for data on accounts held by President Donald Trump and his family, a person close to the matter said on Tuesday.

I wonder what turns up in the Kush bag.
 
So Flynn admitted lying about meeting the Russian ambassador and KT McFarland's back in trouble for not telling about her knowledge of Flynn's meeting when Obama signed new sanctions on Russia during the transition period. Now, I dont care if the Trumpets were talking with the Russians about that, but why are they lying? The only logical conclusion I can see is they knew the Russians helped Trump, but they may not have known how. It aint the crime, its the cover up. We got a bunch of foreigners affecting our elections, I'm sure the nominees they support know they're being helped.
 
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