Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by talonschild, Jul 29, 2012.
Right. This is what we said to each-other just this morning:
We need to send the NAP proposal to Poly quick.
Guidelines which MZ said they will accept are t250 NAP, OB and no help to enemies.
That is fine. Let's do it.
(Also, 2metra if we are playing the other game we must do it now as I will be gone all day today.)
Here is a draft of the treaty we need to send to Apolyton:
It reflects MZ's expressed desire for no espionage clause and for narrowing the meaning of what help to enemies could consist of.
Looks fine. I don't like anti-espionage clauses anyway
Sending it right away.
I just now see something. In reply to the previous NAP offer we have sent to Poly, here is what we got as considerations:
Should we modify the clauses for help to enemies to fit with this expressed their desire? Or we send it as we intended and wait for their input?
I dont get the "of course this includes upgrades" ... So they are saying that it is OK for us to give their enemy gold to upgrade his own units, but not to upgrade them for him? Or that we can do the upgrade, but we have to wait until there is peace to actually give the upgraded units back.
In any case I dont think this clause is a big deal worth holding up the treaty over. Obviously they want to remain free to give gold to our enemies if they want to. we remain free to do the same.
I believe so. Ruling out "although you can't build mech inf yourself, if you transfer some infantry to us, we'll upgrade them to mech infs and transfer them back"
Well its best that we get clarification because you know what they say about assumptions... (oh and he was being purposefully vague btw).
MZ is referring to the the possibility someone to upgrade units for someone else if the latter is not in possibility to do this upgrade himself, because he have no that technology. Just as whb said, infantries to mech infantries is not only a matter of money, but also possession of the technology required. Like Ot4e upgraded the french knights to cuirs and gave them back. I will ask for clarification or outright write the clause with my words and then discuss it.
Which case reminds me that we have a reason to consider our NAP with Ot4e void. He gave military units to third party without consulting with us as he was obliged because of our treaty.
Lets leave this freedom to MZ if he wants to not feel bind with money deals and information sharing. As Sommers said, we keep the same option to ourselves. If we use it is another thing.
This chat we had with MZ from Apolyton tonight. Things dont look bright.
After short break MZ said this:
And then went offline.
So, MZ came online again and this is what e spoke after:
To me it seems that MZ is starting to see us as the main threat, but he knows he is locked into a war with us as allies and he needs us for now. He suspects we are courting UCiv to be our new BFF when Mayans (and CP) are defeated. None of this comes as a suprise though does it?
If we have the espy power to keep tech pace with Poly and we still outproduce them then we are in good shape. The one who focus on always loses to the leader.
That MZ sees us as main threat is true to some degree. But also he is able to take on French alone already - he saw they are not fighting as fierce as they could. SO now he was trying to maybe re-negotiate the land split. I think I managed to get that back to the equal split.
What is worrying me he tells in straight he wont attack CP at t240 unless something really urgent comes (like CP building SS parts like crazy). SO he basically rejected alliance against them. Are we then free and even obliged to ask CP to ally us to get MZ down? If we come to space ship race I think they both - CP and Poly will have the upper hand with their super beaker output.
The deciding factor in Space race is the to sabotage your rivals parts at the last moment. Or to switch his Civics while he tries to build the SS parts to slow his production down, or to throw his cities into and to rob him of production. Most important is the to know where he builds the parts.
And at about the same time we spoke with Ot4e, I started speaking with MZ:
Any comments on that guys?
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