Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by talonschild, Jul 29, 2012.
Even, MZ told me they offered him NAP to t260, where they offered us to t240
For now, I managed to make MZ not answer them for 1-2 days. Lets hope this is enough for answer from them.
Damn, we should had been way quicker
With MZ, we should share our plans. If it had been CP, I'd think twice.
Sharing plans will mean sharing gains.
Yeah, I understand that. I think cooperating with Poly for us to share the spoils will get us a better result than trying to keep them in the dark to try to get all the spoils for ourselves. As we move into the leader position, we need to make sure we're keeping MZ close with us to minimize the risk of a dog pile and to keep them in our camp in case other teams (CP and CivFr) do decide to dogpile us.
So, I have no problem letting them know that we are negotiating with UCiv, and offering to split the benefits. Maybe we can get the Great Spy and they can get some gold.
Uciv's and WPC's cases now seem light and not big of a deal in the light of the new offer MZ made us. He basically offered us to kill off jointly and part CivFR starting t210. He is afraid CivFR are CP's sidekick and we might have real problems if we let them play their games. Not that we did not suspect this for a very long time. For example MZ believes that CivFR teched Liberalism, only so ot4e can steal it cheap from them. If French does not switch to Free Speech any soon, but ot4e gets Liberalism miraculous, then this will be confirmed. With such a games, we will be always handicapped as we dont have such "trading" partner. Plus, CivFR's lands are great. Mmm, yummy matured towns on lush green land!!!
Yes! Let's do this. We'll have to secure the NAP with UCiv and figure out how to throw CP off our tracks. We could tell them we're gearing up to hit WPC next.
Yossa makes a good point about us needing to cozy up to Poly.
As for CP being BFFs with CivFr... no surprises there. We have always known/suspected that a CivFr alliance was CPs exit strategy for the alliance with us. I think we should make eliminating CivFr with Poly and splitting the lands our next priority. Let's strike while MZ is in a fighting spirit, because you know how quickly he turns cold when it comes to fighting.
Forget about WPC for now, they are no threat to anyone, and anyway, we can't take their lands now that we are score leader, it would make us the next RB for sure. Attacking CivFr with Poly is the opportunity we have been waiting for.
I guess WPC will need to wait then... any way we can keep someone else from gobbling them up?
Yeah, when all is said and done, CP will be blocked off from WPC by us and Poly.
On the other side WPC has a long border with UCiv, but we're trying to make them promise not to attack WPC as one of the conditions for the NAP with us.
Hmmmm... with UCiv refusing to keep their hands off WPC I'm beginning to wonder if this quick pivot towards CivFr isn't a brilliant move by MZ- Civfanatics gets diverted from getting any WPC lands while taking down the frenchies and leaving CP without their secret ally. UCiv gets WPC lands and then prepares to take us on. Once CivFr has been dismantled Civfanatic is now the score leader and great menace to be dogpiled.
And what we said to each-other with MZ:
Wow MZ wants that GSpy really really really badly doesn't he?
For the record I am against selling the GSpy generally, because the Spybomb is such an effective offensive weapon and deterent for many reasons, not least of all peoples irrational fear of espy.
We should keep the GSpy for now and see how desperate MZ is to get it, he may start making ridiculous offers as his desperation to get it grows. Just keep it for now and don't commit to giving to MZ or using it for anything.
EDIT: NVM, now I see that it is us who will end up getting the GSpy not Poly. I misread the chat, probably was too tired when I read it. (2metra quoted me anyway so my analysis/comments are preserved for general espy info )
I think there is some misunderstanding, Sommers. It is us who want to buy MZ's still unborn GSpy, which he will get as free GP from teching to Communism first. We dont really stand a chance to get to Communism first in competition with MZ and Ot4e. MZ would have never give us his future GSpy, if there was not the little detail, that if we dont sponsor him, he will most probably lose it to Ot4e. So his choice at the moment is either he gets loan from us in exchange of his promise to sell the future Communism GSpy to us at good price and get some 2500 - 3000 gold from it, or dont get money from us and simply lose the race to Communism with Ot4e, getting nothing out of it and letting his biggest competitor in the tech sphere win free GSpy with which he can steal super cheap from his buddies CivFR.
For us, acquiring this GSpy will be great in many ways. It will put us on the espionage business scene with flying start. MZ correctly calculates that a GSpy can give us about 7500 beakers worth so selling his GSpy to us for 4000 is already good deal for us (barring the fact that MZ will get so much money to use in his superscience setup and run even more ahead with the techs, while if he keeps the GSpy, he almost have no what to steal from anyone). And 3000 or 2500 gold price to get the GSpy is even better value for us, as we will get almost double the amount of beakers we will be able to output using this sum of gold. BUT!!! If we get the Uciv GSpy too, and bomb with him too, then we will get about 30% more discount on espionage missions, which will make our stealing cheap, cheap, cheap. Of course, we must not tell MZ about our possible second GSpy and hope he dont get that info from Uciv.
Otherwise, all you say is correct. A GSpy will be very very useful to us. Two GSpies will be just great
Here is how the negotiations are going:
I think those prices are quite good. Yes, MZ will gain much too, but in FFAs most of the time you have to make deals which benefit 2 or 3 parties and this is still good for you personally, because the others are staying behind, while you move forward.
So, team, we have a situation to solve.
We were planning to happily attack CivFR at t210 when our NAP with them ends, but for this to happen, we must have NAPs with both Poly and CP. I think the sequence must be NAP with Poly -> NAP with CP, where once we get NAP with Poly to t250 (I asked MZ as preliminary talks about it), then we can be at least secure from 3vs1 scenario and we can use Ot4e's fear of MZ's powerful tech abilities by asking him to give us NAP because it will be stupid we to kill each-others while MZ tech ahead.
So, I think NAP to t250 with Poly is good thing to have. Does it seems so for you too guys?
That sounds reasonable.
Only if t250 is enough to destroy CivFr. We dont want a scenario that t250 we are in the middle of War.
What if CP wont agree to the NAP? Surely at this point, they will see the writing on the wall and insist that we all give CivFr a NAP too?
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