Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by talonschild, Jul 29, 2012.
True and good that he clarified it.
I think there is difference in thinking of our 2 "maybe allies".
Apolyton still thinks that they can win on their own and will try to manipulate higher standing civs to duke it out, while staying out of the fight as much as possible
CP probably realized that they can't win themself the game and it will suffice for them to stand in the right alliance at the end of the game.
That's the difference I feel is there and why I think we really should treat both "maybe allies" different way.
I don't think that Poly would willingly broke any contract we make, but I think they will try to do their best to avoid making any strong contracts on the way.
We can treat CP as a true ally. Poly is a team that we can use to our benefit, but we have to understand that they will always be looking for a way to come out on top over us.
Some more chat with MZ from yesterday:
So now MZ wants to dump the "Border garrison" plan and go with Full scale dogpile with banners flying and everything?
I think he sees RB's huge powergraph and is afraid that they will attack Poly next since Poly has the weakest military... So he is worried that all his wishy washy talk until now will leave him with two allies saying "Well if I am attacked I can raise a quick defense, but other than that I can't make promises"
I think he is talking tough now so that he does not get left in the cold if/when RB attacks Poly.
2metra, I suggest that you get him to make as many concrete promises and commitments now while he is feeling scared
That is very interesting development ... Mzprox indeed sounds scared. 2metra mentioned something about seeing RB's army only recently - but we have always knew they were #1 in power, right? So did RB's power spiked dramatically recently?
Sounds also like Mzprox thinks he will be RB's preferred target for some reason(?).
The strangest part for me was that Mzprox said that since we are too weak to defend we should attack - does it make sense in terms of military strategy? True, attacker has an initiative and chooses timing and RB has probably mostly offensive army, but defender seems to have huge advantages in civ? My impression was that Mzprox got suddenly convinced that RB would attack Poly and that was the reason he was so keen on a "preventive strike" (?).
I am very curious what our generals think.
@2metra, congratulations on getting Mzprox to promise not to extend NAP with CivFr if they would not offer NAP to us, too.
If MZ is scared as it sounds, and he will truly be the first to Rifles, then maybe now is the time to pressure him to agree to spearhead a joint 3 way invasion. Yes RB has huge military, but with some drafted/whipped Rifles, Poly should be able to absorb alot of that pain, or at least take a good chunk of land from RB.
RB will potentially be forced to choose between fighting the Rifles, or allowing Poly to cripple them in order to save their Army to keep CP and CFC at bay.
2metra's chat with MZ of Apolyton and our team responses (copied from Spanish thread):
Notice that 2metra probed him a little on the "Get a NAP with RB and go after CivFr now, RB later" plan... MZ replied that he still wants to get RB first... Not surprising, as RB is now all that stands between Poly, and the lead, but I will repeat that now may be the time to bring up the idea of a Poly-Spearheaded attack.
Since Poly will be #2 and the most advanced military, an invasion by Poly is the most likely to be seen as a possible power move, rather than the beginning of a joint strike. If Cp attacks first on the othe hand, RB will be absolutely certain that this is part of a larger alliance move and they may ignore CP and just DoW us instead. Indiansmoke did something like that to AMAZON in the last game... Q attacked him, and he just DoWed AMAZON in response, because he guessed that we were allies.
Thanks Sommers for moving those to the correct thread. It was late night for me and I was clicking without seen where I click.
Poly leading the attack seems most logical. One thing mostly stops me from believing this will what will happen. MZ's cautiousness. He will just keep teching happy while keeping enough army to fend off any attack if he dont see clear chance to hurt RB serious and most important, advantage their own team from it.
On the other hand, he is known for exaggerating the problems he have and leaving him space to maneuver, where actually when the time comes, he will be brave and daring if he see possibility for that.
Please tell me we'll actually provide this line of reasoning up-front, with the intent of getting RB's army out of position.
Which one, Talons?
Maybe throw in a little something about RB's army being on their border with us.
This is why I have always been a bit surprised why we kept insisting that "Realms Beyondo delenda est". It had always seemed to me that natural leader of such a coalition would be a #2 civ - so currently Poly, previously CivFr.
On the other hand, based on what MzProx said so far, I do not think he is going to do it - but no harm in explaining it to him why he should lead the attack .
If he refuses then we get a bargaining chip with him. We agree to lead the attack and ask him to give us some Rifles or rights to larger share of land (or whatever).
And finally, one chat with MZ about our common future:
Are we worried about what OzzyKP said?
Of course not.
So, we are not the only who came to the great idea of extorting money from Uciv
MZ said Uciv contacted him too asking for NAP and he wants to make them pay some money. Do we share with him our plans so we can act like block and get for sure money from Uciv, but then we will have to divide the spoils. Or we keep silent and hope we will be more scary to Uciv so they give money to us first and not to him?
Separate names with a comma.