Fourteen Criteria for Turkey to meet before they may join the European Community

[Ciceronian]

NB: Important! Please read the three edits at the bottom of the post before voting!

I know there have been lots of threads about Turkey and the EU in the past, seeing as it is such a hot topic, but I think this thread has its justification because I may be able to shed some new light from a different angle on this issue. While I was always opposed to Turkey's accession to the EU, I have now realised that if certain conditions are fulfilled, I would not mind them joining. I have therefore drawn up a list of 14 points which Turkey ought to fulfill before we let them join. I think they are all fulfillable, although it will take great courage, patience and acumen to meet them all. Some of them are very tough and will take some effort and the ability to admit mistakes to go through with them. Time is also a factor, but I think that 20 or 30 years should suffice to accomplish them, though some of them might be doable immediately. I think that we will see some of these things definitely happening in our lifetimes, but others will probably never happen, and that case I hope that the EU does not allow Turkey to join. The 14 points are as follows:

1. The majority of Turks are atheist/agnostic and not Muslim or any other
religion.

2. Turkey acknowledges the Armenian genocide.

3. Turkey allows the Kurds to hold a referendum on independence, and
officially apologises for their supression of the independence movement.

4. Turkey withdraws its troops from Iraq.

5. Turkey acknowledges Greek sovereignity over all Aegean islands.

6. Turkey withdraws its recognition and support of the Turkish Republic of
Northern Cyprus.

7. Turkey offers an official apology for the invasion of Cyprus to the
international community.

8. Turkey pays compensation money to Cyprus to make up for the damages
caused by the invasion.

9. Turkey offers all Turkish Cypriots to resettle to Turkey, and offers
them financial incentives to do so.

10. Turkey enjoys a long period (at least 20 years) of political stability
in which the army does not threaten the integrity of the government.

11. Turkey ends its human rights abuses, especially in prisons.

12. Turkey gets its industry up to scratch, and transforms the dominant
sector from agriculture to industry/services.

13. Turkey demonstrates that it can guarantee border security, especially
the borders to Iraq and Iran.

14. Turkey guarantees full freedom of speech, especially on sensitive issues such as the country's difficult past.

Please discuss whether you think these demands are reasonable, or whether you think none, some or all of them should be met to allow Turkey to join.

EDIT: Sorry for the somewhat stilted-sounding poll options, but there is a 100 char limit on poll options. TSBATJ is an abbreviation for "Turkey should be allowed to join".

EDIT 2: Option 1 ought to read: "Yes, TSBATJ if they meet all these criteria"; option 3 should be: "Yes, TSBATJ if they meet some of these criteria"; and option 4 should read: "Yes, TSBATJ if they meet some of these criteria + some others (please specify)".

EDIT 3: Option 5 ought to read: "No, Turkey should NOT be allowed to join under any circumstances".

 

[RedRalph]

1. The majority of Turks are atheist/agnostic and not Muslim or any other
religion.

Utterly unworkable, comepletely unrealistic, totally ridiculous.

2. Turkey acknowledges the Armenian genocide.

Yes, I agree

3. Turkey allows the Kurds to hold a referendum on independence, and
officially apologises for their supression of the independence movement.

more chance of getting a BJ off the pope
4. Turkey withdraws its troops from Iraq.

5. Turkey acknowledges Greek sovereignity over all Aegean islands.

Likewise

6. Turkey withdraws its recognition and support of the Turkish Republic of
Northern Cyprus.

Vaguely possible, very unlikely

7. Turkey offers an official apology for the invasion of Cyprus to the
international community.

no hope

8. Turkey pays compensation money to Cyprus to make up for the damages
caused by the invasion.

no hope

9. Turkey offers all Turkish Cypriots to resettle to Turkey, and offers
them financial incentives to do so.

Not a chance

10. Turkey enjoys a long period (at least 20 years) of political stability
in which the army does not threaten the integrity of the government.

Face it: Its either the army or the Islamists. the EU would accept the Turk army long before theyd accept the Islamists.

11. Turkey ends its human rights abuses, especially in prisons.

I agree

12. Turkey gets its industry up to scratch, and transforms the dominant
sector from agriculture to industry/services.

attaining EU membership would facilitate that.

13. Turkey demonstrates that it can guarantee border security, especially
the borders to Iraq and Iran.

Fair enough

14. Turkey guarantees full freedom of speech, especially on sensitive issues such as the country's difficult past.

Yes, good call.

 

[Stapel]

Turkey should join the Economical European Union right away. I don't give a rat's arse about a political or cultural EU. With Turkey within, spending money on politics or culture will become more difficult . Therefor, I don't see any reason why Turley shouldn't get into the EU, right now!

Ok, the Cyprus stuff, perhaps. And probably full Freedom of Speech, as we know it.

 

[CurtSibling]

Turkey has never been part of Europe. And never should be.

Let them team up with the USA, who like overlording muslim nations.

...

 

[TheLastOne36]

Fair Enough.

i voted for meeting all points except for the first.

You can't force someone to change their beliefs or religions.

 

[CurtSibling]

You can't force someone to change their beliefs or religions.

Tell that to the muslims in Europe who want to remove all religions apart from their own.

...

 

[RedRalph]

Tell that to the muslims in Europe who want to remove all religions apart from their own.

...

wouldnt take long, there must be only a few thousand out of a population of several hundred million. i'm not worried.

 

[Leonel]

1. The majority of Turks are atheist/agnostic and not Muslim or any other
religion.

Hehe I like how tolerant Europe is being here.

"In order to join, you have to convert to our belief system."

Why not just get it over with and finish what the Crusaders started in the 12th century!

 

[RedRalph]

Hehe I like how tolerant Europe is being here.

"In order to join, you have to convert to our belief system."

Plus i like the fact that its the majority... you can just imagine the lucky guy who is just the right side of the 50% mark so dosent have to give up Islam...

 

[CurtSibling]

wouldnt take long, there must be only a few thousand out of a population of several hundred million. i'm not worried.

Wouldn't take long to deport all Muslims to Saudi Arabia?

...

 

[RedRalph]

Wouldn't take long to deport all Muslims to Saudi Arabia?

...

???? No idea what you mean here, I'm saying it wouldnt take long to tell them that because SFA of them believe that.

 

[Ciceronian]

OK, let me resolve all the ruckus caused by my first point. This is the point I am most willing to be flexible on, and a tendency towards agnosticism/atheism would probably be sufficient. I'm not asking anyone to change their religion, but just to have none at all. I would like to see all of Europe following the Swedish model religion-wise, because agnosticism/atheism is more tolerant, liberal and beneficient to the society than religion. That being said, Christianity isn't too bad, but if gains the amount of control and prominence it has in the USA, I would be very worried indeed. Might I also add that of all the Islamic nations Turkey is one of the most progressive and secular. So if you agree with the thirteen points (2 - 14) than please vote for the first option and ignore the first point.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Tell that to the muslims in Europe who want to remove all religions apart from their own.

...

And they failed didn't they? (talking about the ottomans in europe)


Although they did manage to convert the Albanians...

 

[CurtSibling]

???? No idea what you mean here, I'm saying it wouldnt take long to tell them that because SFA of them believe that.

Like all religious people, they are programmed to attempt domination of any nation they find themselves in.

Whether they do this forcibly (by terrorism) or by stealth (protests) their final goal is the same.

We have enough of that going on in Europe. Another several million Jihad-nutters are not welcome.

...

 

[CurtSibling]

And they failed didn't they? (talking about the ottomans in europe)


Although they did manage to convert the Albanians...

The muslims are trying again, by more subtle means.

Using our Western tolerance against us...

...

 

[philippe]

1. The majority of Turks are atheist/agnostic and not Muslim or any other
religion.
Goes against the principles of freedom of religion. invalid point.
2. Turkey acknowledges the Armenian genocide.
Vital point, must happen.
3. Turkey allows the Kurds to hold a referendum on independence, and
officially apologises for their supression of the independence movement.
Yes, absolutely Yes.
4. Turkey withdraws its troops from Iraq.
yes, no troops, only coördinated police actions in coöperation with the Iraqi government
5. Turkey acknowledges Greek sovereignity over all Aegean islands.
yes. but not a vital point, there is a point for compromise here.
6. Turkey withdraws its recognition and support of the Turkish Republic of
Northern Cyprus.
yes. but now after 30 years of occupation a government like in Northern Ireland would be better. And tear down the wall!
7. Turkey offers an official apology for the invasion of Cyprus to the
international community.
yes.
8. Turkey pays compensation money to Cyprus to make up for the damages
caused by the invasion.
absolutely not. This could open up a whirlwind of claims.
9. Turkey offers all Turkish Cypriots to resettle to Turkey, and offers
them financial incentives to do so.
sounds as a good measure to release some heat from the stove, maybe the UN can help in this.
10. Turkey enjoys a long period (at least 20 years) of political stability
in which the army does not threaten the integrity of the government.
hmm, difficult point here. I think Turkish command is wise enough to not interfere with any pro-EU steps.
11. Turkey ends its human rights abuses, especially in prisons.
absolutely, and let's go more through in cleaning up the communistic mess in the eastern bloc (orphanages)
12. Turkey gets its industry up to scratch, and transforms the dominant
sector from agriculture to industry/services.
Hey they are already well on their way, if they join the EU this can only improve!
13. Turkey demonstrates that it can guarantee border security, especially
the borders to Iraq and Iran.
I think they already can
14. Turkey guarantees full freedom of speech, especially on sensitive issues such as the country's difficult past.
D'uh. all countries should.

EDIT 2: Option 1 ought to read: "Yes, TSBATJ if they meet all these criteria";
I'm doubting whether to choose option 1 or 3. I prefer 1 of course but then again, it feels too much as there are measurements who are a bit too one-sided
option 3 should be: "Yes, TSBATJ if they meet some of these criteria"

I am open for welcoming Turkey if they meet those standards.

 

[Ciceronian]

Curt, I agree that Muslims are a danger to Europe in their current numbers and with the current climate pervading Islam. I think we ought to offer them financial incentives to move back to their home countries (mainly Algeria and Turkey I believe). And btw, there aren't hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Europe, but actually many millions (53 according to wiki, of which 16 are in the EU), which would make it about 4% of the total EU population. Turkey joining would approximately quadruple that proportion.

 

[RedRalph]

Like all religious people, they are programmed to attempt domination of any nation they find themselves in.

Look man, I'm an agnostic Marxist, but even i dont believe that. Its a ridiculous assertion. show some proof for it.

Whether they do this forcibly (by terrorism) or by stealth (protests) their final goal is the same.

Again, show some proof

We have enough of that going on in Europe. Another several million Jihad-nutters are not welcome.

If youre worried about Theocracy in Europe, try and overthrown the vatican. no other country is even vaguely close to being a Muslim or other theocracy.

 

[warpus]

1. The majority of Turks are atheist/agnostic and not Muslim or any other
religion.

What the hell?

Since when is the European Union an agnostic bloc?

 

[RedRalph]

So insecure and easily threatened... Muslims eixst in tiny numbers in the EU. No Muslim country, or even all Muslim countries, can challenege europe militarily. and yet you are stuill afraid of them... grow a pair