Free Buildings

[Koshling]

The solution to this problem is to simply restrict the number of buildings the population can build "for free" in this way to only include buildings that every city has a real need for, like forges, court houses, production buildings (that creates gold, commerce, culture, hammers, food, health...), basically any beneficial buildings that does not have any strings attached, like extra gold costs. the obsoleteness thing can be regulated by having a "can build this building only until age x" tag on the buildings that goes obsolete (so if a building goes obsolete during the classical age it can only be built in this way until the end of the ancient age, for example). That won't solve the whole obsoleteness "issue", but it will reduce it quite a lot.

Forges have health penalties so they could not be included struictly (as do many production buildings).

On a personal note (this is just opinion), I also would not like the loss of control this implies, and I also don't think an entitrely new mechanism is really needed here. Proliferating mechanism just makes things harder to understand, and presents extra hurdles for the AI to not screw up on.

DH's national wonder idea I quite like, but the mechanism should be embedded into the DLL via tags, not done through Python really or else we'll have a hard time making the AI account for it correctly.

Short-term I think we should just change the list of buildings on colonist/pioneer to be more appropriate. Ideally we do this by adding a freeBuildings tag to (settler line) units, though obviously just changing the existing Python would work in the very short term.

 

[Nevets_]

Would it be possible to code in a building that disappears after a certain number of turns? I know FfH had promotions that did that. If you could, you could have a 'Construction Supplies' building that gets auto-built when you found a new city instead of the free buildings you get now, and disappears after a number of turns based on the game speed.

So for example on epic speed:

Settler founded cities get:
Settlement Construction Supplies (Disappears after 20 turns)
+25 (total 500 )

Colonist founded cities get:
Colonial Construction Supplies (Disappears after 20 turns)
+3 +2 +50 (total 1000 )

Pioneer founded cities get:
Pioneering Construction Supplies (Disappears after 20 turns)
+9 +5 +100 (total 2000 )

So instead of getting a pre-built list of free buildings, you get extra production which lets you build your starter buildings very fast, but you still only get to build what you could at that moment. With multiple production you don't waste any hammers, and as buildings get changed from version to version you don't have to re-evaluate what the settler-units give for free, or worry about what buildings are available to the player at that moment. I included the food / health bonuses because I always figured that settlers brought some smoked salmon and beef jerky with them to their new city, and they should have enough to keep them healthy and well fed for a little while even if there are no local farms or road connections prebuilt.


As for the 'free building in every city' wonders, I think the only ones that are dangerous are the -. / are globally accrued amounts so you know what you are loosing when you build the wonder and it doesn't affect any city's growth. I can't think of any - or - buildings, and as has been mentioned already isn't really a problem after you discover Herbalism, until you get to the Industrial Revolution.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I am working on a mod that auto upgrades you housing since most housing upgrades are cheap. It would only upgrade existing buildings if you had the requirements. This means you would still have to build new lines of housing.

Auto building those buildings that are needed for quests would be great. Also putting them at the front of the queues when deciding what to be built would be nice.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Now that we have the NewCityFree tag that can be used to give the building free to new cities after you have a given technology but only when you have the building requirements.

Spoiler :

example code:

<NewCityFree>
  <Has>
    <GOMType>GOM_TECH</GOMType>
    <ID>TECH_MUSIC</ID>
  </Has>
</NewCityFree>

Currently we have Python code that does this sort of thing for the Colonist and Pioneer units.

Colonist at Navigation gives free

• Barracks
• Granary
• Forge
• Market
• Harbour (on coast)
• Lighthouse (on coast)
• Fisherman's hut (on coast)

Pioneer at Steam Power gives free
[*]Garrison
[*]Granary
[*]Forge
[*]Courthouse
[*]Market
[*]Stable
[*]Grocer
[*]Doctor
[*]Bank
[*]Library
[*]Port (on coast)
[*]Lighthouse (on coast)
[*]Fisherman's hut (on coast)

These are designed for RoM or RoM:AND meaning they probably should be changed for C2C.

I suggest we change this to a more organic approach so that any new cities built after a given tech get some buildings free. Currently that would be

New cities settled after Navigation is discovered get free (if valid):

• Barracks
• Granary
• Forge
• Harbour
• Lighthouse
• Fisherman's hut

New cities after Steam Power is discovered get free (if valid)

• Garrison
• Courthouse
• Doctor
• Bank
• Library
• Port

Note: they don't get a market, grocer or stable because they don't get any prerequsite buildings.

This method also has an advantage of the mega buildings like "Wood Cutter's Guild" or "National Library" because the building is only free if the prerequsites are there.

I think we can be a bit more generous and organic by having buildings free to new cities as we go through the tech tree rather than hits like at Navigation or Steam Power.

Some suggestions:

• Woodcutter's hut at Sedentary Lifestyle and drop the guild
• Fire Pit ditto
• Sage's Hut at Caste System

 

[Koshling]

Now that we have the NewCityFree tag that can be used to give the building free to new cities after you have a given technology but only when you have the building requirements.

Spoiler :

example code:

<NewCityFree>
  <Has>
    <GOMType>GOM_TECH</GOMType>
    <ID>TECH_MUSIC</ID>
  </Has>
</NewCityFree>

Currently we have Python code that does this sort of thing for the Colonist and Pioneer units.

Colonist at Navigation gives free

• Barracks
• Granary
• Forge
• Market
• Harbour (on coast)
• Lighthouse (on coast)
• Fisherman's hut (on coast)

Pioneer at Steam Power gives free
[*]Garrison
[*]Granary
[*]Forge
[*]Courthouse
[*]Market
[*]Stable
[*]Grocer
[*]Doctor
[*]Bank
[*]Library
[*]Port (on coast)
[*]Lighthouse (on coast)
[*]Fisherman's hut (on coast)

These are designed for RoM or RoM:AND meaning they probably should be changed for C2C.

I suggest we change this to a more organic approach so that any new cities built after a given tech get some buildings free. Currently that would be

New cities settled after Navigation is discovered get free (if valid):

• Barracks
• Granary
• Forge
• Harbour
• Lighthouse
• Fisherman's hut

New cities after Steam Power is discovered get free (if valid)

• Garrison
• Courthouse
• Doctor
• Bank
• Library
• Port

Note: they don't get a market, grocer or stable because they don't get any prerequsite buildings.

This method also has an advantage of the mega buildings like "Wood Cutter's Guild" or "National Library" because the building is only free if the prerequsites are there.

I think we can be a bit more generous and organic by having buildings free to new cities as we go through the tech tree rather than hits like at Navigation or Steam Power.

Some suggestions:

• Woodcutter's hut at Sedentary Lifestyle and drop the guild
• Fire Pit ditto
• Sage's Hut at Caste System

Things with a minimum city size (e.g. - forge - size 6) don't make much sense as free on-founding buildings I don't think.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Things with a minimum city size (e.g. - forge - size 6) don't make much sense as free on-founding buildings I don't think.

That is a point since the new method will probably not give you those buildings which defeats the purpose. Oh well leave it as it is I suppose.

Which is one reason I don't like the population limits that are there at the moment. Sometimes towns are settled where they are because of the inn or forge or lighthouse not the other way round.

Edit which is why I would have preferred buildings required an organizational ability rather than a population. A centre with the same population may be a village in one real nation, a town in another and a city in yet another. Having the orgizational structure would benefit rich urban centres.

So some buildings require no organzational building. Some require level 1 (fire pit) or above. Some require village hall and above and so on. Thus you would give th village hall or whatever first in the above situation....

 

[JosEPh_II]

I agree with you DH on the pop requirements being too restrictive. I personally would like them to go bye-bye.

JosEPh

 

[Koshling]

That is a point since the new method will probably not give you those buildings which defeats the purpose. Oh well leave it as it is I suppose.

Which is one reason I don't like the population limits that are there at the moment. Sometimes towns are settled where they are because of the inn or forge or lighthouse not the other way round.

Edit which is why I would have preferred buildings required an organizational ability rather than a population. A centre with the same population may be a village in one real nation, a town in another and a city in yet another. Having the orgizational structure would benefit rich urban centres.

So some buildings require no organzational building. Some require level 1 (fire pit) or above. Some require village hall and above and so on. Thus you would give th village hall or whatever first in the above situation....

I rather like the idea of the restriction being on the organizational building. Of cousre town hall itself require 6 pop, but since that's three down the line, that could well be irrelevant. Forge (and mostother currently size 6) buildings requiring village hall feels like a good suggestion.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Dancing Hoskuld

Ok I see some problems with building requirements ...

1. Market requires a Trading Post So really you should have a Trading Post.

2. Fisherman's Hut requires a sea resource in the city vicinity.

3. Library requires resources like Tablets, Scrolls or Books.

4. Lighthouse requires resources like bricks.

If there is a way to get them for free if the requirements are valid then that's fine.

 

[AIAndy]

@Dancing Hoskuld

Ok I see some problems with building requirements ...

1. Market requires a Trading Post So really you should have a Trading Post.

2. Fisherman's Hut requires a sea resource in the city vicinity.

3. Library requires resources like Tablets, Scrolls or Books.

4. Lighthouse requires resources like bricks.

If there is a way to get them for free if the requirements are valid then that's fine.

The NewCityFree tag obeys building requirements with the exception of prereq buildings. And it is an expression, so you can have any kind of additional requirements (counting of terrain types, features and the like).

 

[Hydromancerx]

The NewCityFree tag obeys building requirements with the exception of prereq buildings. And it is an expression, so you can have any kind of additional requirements (counting of terrain types, features and the like).

Well Fisherman's Hut requires sea resources and not buildings. Looks like Lighthouse doesn't require bricks.

But the Market requires Barter Post OR Trading Post OR Shopping District.

I recommend that instead of the free Market you get a free Trading Post.