From A to Z: #3 Augustus

[Gwaja]

Hello all of you Civ 4 Crazies! ^_^ Welcome to my blog of anything Civ 4. And finally, I got to wrap up the Asoka game, so here I am... starting up nice and fresh with the next game!

So in this game, we will be tackling with Augustus, leader of the Romans with the super uber Praetorians for world domination! But not only does Auggy have great unique unit and an interesting unique building that boosts production, his industrious trait could be interesting here as well. I usually try to avoid industrious and financial in most games I play, but there is just something so cool about Augustus! And I like him a lot better than Julius~ ^_^

Once again, I ask for your participation in whatever form that may suit you best, whether it be shadows or comments or direct questions/criticism for me. All are welcome, and hopefully, the map this time doesn't SUCK as much as it did the last two games!

Now then, let's properly introduce our awesome new leader!

Spoiler :

What the heck is the settings for this game?

Spoiler :

Bearing in mind that Auggy starts with Fishing and Mining, here is the start!

Spoiler :

BAH! Another start where my starting techs don't fit the starting location perfectly. Last time, I had a coastal start with bunch of sea food, but no Fishing to begin with. Now this time, I start with Fishing on an inland start with other forms of food.... but at least, the food available here is excellent, don't you think? Good food and good production here for sure! Decent number of trees to boot too! I think I like this start! Oh wait... I said the same thing the last time with Asoka start..... hmmm!

Okay Auggy... guide me to victory!!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Yay not B&S. I'll SHADOW.

It's not a high start, but usable.

Blue circle is looking like it's coastal. The only issue there of course is that your only hill is a plains hill and that you might miss out on a potential resource 1W. I'd still make sure you're not killing fish though.

 

[Gwaja]

Yay not B&S. I'll SHADOW.

It's not a high start, but usable.

Blue circle is looking like it's coastal. The only issue there of course is that your only hill is a plains hill and that you might miss out on a potential resource 1W. I'd still make sure you're not killing fish though.

Bah... I was expecting some fun with B & S map, but it came out to be a stinker in the last game, so I decided to go the usual Fractal this time. I guess you aren't a fan of B & S maps?

Blue circle is almost surely a coastal tile. Moving the warrior in that direction is probably best at this point. If there is seafood in that direction, then it will get much more interesting... if not, I will probably settle in place.

Still no shinies... it would have been nice to have a high commerce start... but maybe the game is waiting until I tackle a Financial leader? ^_^ Oooh.... if there is stone or marble nearby.... that would be total awesomeness!

On a side note: Just to let you know that I am in the process of cooking another map for your enjoyment. ^_^

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Bah... I was expecting some fun with B & S map, but it came out to be a stinker in the last game, so I decided to go the usual Fractal this time. I guess you aren't a fan of B & S maps?

They're among my least favorite scripts:

- Land distribution balance is among the worst of all maps with M&S and B&S. It can get really, really imbalanced.
- Lots of little islands virtually guarantee that there's going to be extra unit movement micro, barb galleys to manage, and AI's sailing through and spamming patchwork cities all over the place.
- Islands get big enough that the AI starts making a fashion of colonies sometimes, and with vassals on and how broken vassal states are as a mechanic this can be really grating.
- The land is higher quality than usual and that gives a higher tech rate than usual. I like beating things down.

I'd rather play almost any round map, even global highlands . Only things like rainforest, arboria, great plains, and oasis appeal to me less. A lot of people love B&S though, can't please everybody, so I just avoid them usually, just as others play different map scripts they prefer.

Now that I look more carefully, killing fish is unlikely. Still, seafood makes a GLH run with an IND leader interesting.

 

[Fippy]

Find some stone for Pyramids, you got the food
Well even if you dun find stone, depending on what else is around i might chop them anyways.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Find some stone for Pyramids, you got the food
Well even if you dun find stone, depending on what else is around i might chop them anyways.

It might be worth chopping out a BCs double-rush, too. It could even be done while getting failgold from mids that a target builds. No need to be hasty on that kind of planning.

 

[Izuul]

I definitely want to play this one. I'm a fan of Augustus and there are lots of early possibilities here. Need to explore the immediate area before deciding which way to go.

 

[Patchface]

Ooh very nice start. 2 excellent foods and lots of forest to chop Praets.

 

[Seraiel]

Nice to see you playing a "real" Civ now.

I'm looking forward very much to when you will reach Darius, Hatty, Huayna, Gilgamesh and all the others that are truely strong, but I think Agustus is in the same league with them.

From what I see, I'd SIP probably and with Augustus I'd think very much about Oracling Metalcasting, because he has cheap Forges.

Maybe, as this is fractal, you are sitting alone on a continent with De Gaulle or Gandhi ^^ .

That might get funny then .

I personally wouldn't think about self-building the Mids unless you're somewhat isolated again, Mids are very expensive and Praets can usually conquer them quite easily.

One things that you imo should keep in mind when playing Augustus / Rome:

1. Oracle is cheap and helpful
2. IND-Forges are very cheap and helpful
3. On IMM or Deity, you normall don't need to beeline IW because it can be gotten through trade easily, you should have a Settler ready when you get it though, not getting Iron would bge very meh
4. Don't fount too many cities, Praets are the cheaper way to expand
5. Never stop building Praets, Praets + Cannons i. e. work awesome and are an (again) cheap combo to killl as much as the AI can build.
6. Don't tech too much sideways this time. With Agustus, Praets + Siege are really all you need. Oracle MC is a strong move, but not even that one is necessary, though it can be helpful.
7. Make use Failgold economy!
8. Go for as much as possible.
9. Think about settling your first 2 or 2nd and 3rd GGs in your HE-city, 2nd 'til 4th will still be available quite soon because of IMP. CR3 Praets out of the gate can really be very disturbing for all others that area also unfortunately on that map with you, don't forget that CR3 Praets + Catapults easily beats anything up to Rifling.
10. Good luck.

 

[enKage]

Settle coast, on the blue circle. 2 food guaranteed, possible seafood = at leat warrior is able to reveal some coast here

 

[Seraiel]

Settle coast, on the blue circle. 2 food guaranteed, possible seafood = at leat warrior is able to reveal some coast here

Moving away from both green hills is not wise. Also, the Spices give +1 and some with Calendar and like this, she'll have more Forrests too -> more production in general -> most important thing when playing for Domination / Conquest.

Coast in general is only worth it if it has seafood, but in this case, she has got 2 strong sources of Food, even if there was fish at the Coast it'd be a bad choice because of the mentioned reason and because 2* 6 resources already give so much Food that it's gonna be very hard to not let the city run in should there be no early Happiness..

 

[enKage]

Let's reveal the coast and we will be far wiser

 

[Thrar]

I'd move the warrior 1NE to see if there's anything worth moving for. You already have two 6 tiles, so I'd be looking for non-food preferably. If there's nothing visible, I wouldn't waste a turn moving and losing a forest by settling on it.

Tech-wise, obviously Agriculture first.
After that, depends on your surroundings: if you see religion-oriented people starting with Myst and want the Oracle, go for it right away. If there are no such neighbors, I'd get AH next, then towards Priesthood.
You have little commerce available here, I don't think you can afford any larger detours than that if you want to be reasonably sure of the Oracle.

 

[Seraiel]

Let's reveal the coast and we will be far wiser

If there were 3 Seafoods, I wouldn't settle there. Warrior has to go 1NE because settling 1NE (from Settler) might be an option. Has Freshwater, both Foods, keeps the unforrested BFC-tile + the green hill and the Warrior might reveal a Luxury aswell as there's another green forrested hill under the Fog.

 

[Seraiel]

Tech-wise, obviously Agriculture first.
After that, depends on your surroundings: if you see religion-oriented people starting with Myst and want the Oracle, go for it right away. If there are no such neighbors, I'd get AH next, then towards Priesthood.
You have little commerce available here, I don't think you can afford any larger detours than that if you want to be reasonably sure of the Oracle.

I think you've forgotten / implied Agri.

Tech path could be Agri -> Ah if Horses Pottery before BW, otherwise BW before Pottery -> Polytheism -> Priesthood with TW before Pottery.

 

[Thrar]

I do believe I mentioned Agriculture...

Given the low commerce start, Wheel and Pottery seem to me like a very risky detour on the way to Oracle. If we invest in the 3 religious techs and then fail to get it in time, we wasted a lot of research.
I don't see Wheel and Pottery as necessary before Oracle. The capital won't have much time for a granary anyway. I guess BW is a good idea before the religious branch, so we can chop out Oracle in 3 turns or so.

Turn-wise, we're looking at Agri (~10), AH (~12), BW (~18), Myst (~6), Medit (~8), PH (~6) or a very rough estimate of 60 turns for the techs, plus maybe 3 turns building and chopping. Note that I pulled these numbers out of my posterior, they may be off a bit but the ballpark seems about right to me.

Turn 63 might be doable, but it isn't exactly the safest Oracle date ever. The biggest gain is probably cutting out AH and farm the pigs instead. If exploration shows some food for a second city without need for AH, I would consider skipping AH until after BW.
In my eyes, Wheel/Pottery are definitely out as that would put us in the range of T75, much too late for a reliable Oracle.

 

[enKage]

Pro for Coastal start is seafood commerce, no need for Agri/AH early = earlier IWorking. If fish revealed, I would take it. Plainhill can cope the production, maybe a hidden resource too.

IMO checking if there is seafood is worth moving warrior 1 E instead of 1NE

 

[Seraiel]

I do believe I mentioned Agriculture...

Given the low commerce start, Wheel and Pottery seem to me like a very risky detour on the way to Oracle. If we invest in the 3 religious techs and then fail to get it in time, we wasted a lot of research.
I don't see Wheel and Pottery as necessary before Oracle. The capital won't have much time for a granary anyway. I guess BW is a good idea before the religious branch, so we can chop out Oracle in 3 turns or so.

Turn-wise, we're looking at Agri (~10), AH (~12), BW (~18), Myst (~6), Medit (~8), PH (~6) or a very rough estimate of 60 turns for the techs, plus maybe 3 turns building and chopping. Note that I pulled these numbers out of my posterior, they may be off a bit but the ballpark seems about right to me.

Turn 63 might be doable, but it isn't exactly the safest Oracle date ever. The biggest gain is probably cutting out AH and farm the pigs instead. If exploration shows some food for a second city without need for AH, I would consider skipping AH until after BW.
In my eyes, Wheel/Pottery are definitely out as that would put us in the range of T75, much too late for a reliable Oracle.

BW before AH and farming the Pigs is a decent idea.

Also, techs get discounts when one Civ has gotten them, T50 should be quite doable and is a good date for Oracle on normal.

Also, this is Immortal difficulty still, I'd bet 2000 BC Oracle would be safe in 99% of the cases. On Deity, Oracle 2000 BC can fail, but doesn't AI on IMM even only start with 1 Settler? Only rexing to 3 cities is probably going to take AIs until 3000 BC, and when being at 1 or 2 cities, chance for any other builds than Settlers / Workers is really extremely low.

There's btw. also a lake that can be worked for a little extra-Commerce.

 

[Gwaja]

Thank you all for some great insight and suggestions! Before we get started, I would like to present this new situation by simply moving the warrior to see what more it reveals for us!

So, before we moved:

Spoiler :

I decided to move 1E because I was quite certain, that it's gotta be a coastal tile, and I'd absolutely hate to lose fishies or clams or crabs or whatever....

And then after moving, the land is revealed... and gives us more things to ponder about, with a bit of a good news:

Spoiler :

Well, I don't think I need to say any more do I? We've been talking Oracle here for quite a bit now... so... what say you now? There is no seafood near here.... so the biggest question begging to be answered would be.... would you move from here to put that shiny stuff in the capital's 2nd ring? Seraiel mentioned the possibility of moving 1NE with the settler, and that might be the best way to go?

And also, notice that we are right below the jungle belt... which means... there will be more greener lands this time around. Hopefully there might be some gems nearby? Also, jungles pose some interesting challenge in the early game and might make Iron Working more attractive than just for the purpose of building Praetorians.

I shall wait for some more feedback before getting started on this one!

 

[Thrar]

Since we're industrious anyway, the time spent on Masonry plus Wheel to get a quarry hooked up would only delay Oracle. I'd SIP this and perhaps have another city later share the pigs and get the marble.

I agree with Seraiel that T50 (2000BC) should be safe for Oracle. T60 or later, it depends on who is around. Anyway, going Agri first is clear I guess, and we can postpone the AH decision until we know a bit more about the surrounding land.