Fundamentalism is not always a bad thing.

I think that a lot of the world's problems sprout directly from the fact that people refuse to see sex as a healthy, beautiful thing that should be done as often as possible, whether it be by your own hand or with another, consenting adult. Biologically speaking, the more times you 'do it' the healthier you will be. The fact that certain religions forbid this kind of activity causes a lot of undue stress in people having to give up what nature is screaming at them to do - and unhappy people are the ones causing the problems in society - for the most part.... because misery loves company.
 
Magnus, I have no doubts whatsoever that you can provide reams of detailed 'scientific' 'evidence' to that effect. It's not like any sane scientist would even attempt to deny a published report that claimed sex was good for you. He'd never see a grant proposal again.

And it's patently clear that anyone who does dare deny it will be ridiculed and verbally abused until they either submit or go away.

Hmph. I shall do neither. What do you think of that?
 
I'd like to actually get some response to this, but this post is gonna be a bit lengthy, so bear with me and follow the signs....

I. Definition of Fundamentalism
For my purposes here, fundamentalism will be defined as religious orthodoxy based on literal interpretation of scripture. By default, I refer to Christian, mostly protestant, fundamentalism, but other kinds can and do exist (just with a different set of scriptures or derived beliefs.)
By extension, I also apply the term fundamentalism to attempts to cause government to adhere to a fundamentalist belief system

II. Where I'm Going With This
I believe fundamentalism is always a mistake. For some people, in some situations, it may appear necessary or desirable, and certainly provideds a strong measure of security and stability (these are good things, no doubt), but inevitably leads to the reduction of religious faith (which I also take to be a good thing) to superstition ( which is at best ugly and useless and at worst, dangerous and sometimes legitimately evil).

III. Some Background Info
I am obviously, from some above statements, not a moral relativist, neither am I a moral realist ( in the traditional sense, this means one who accepts moral conditions as facts ). I can't get out from under the shadow of Hume and treat anything factual as normative. This doesn't require justification on my part, it is simply a demand of logic: is never implies ought. They just don't mean the same thing. Likewise, no factual state of affairs can ever be accepted as factually good or bad. If you're clever and have a bit of a philosophy background, you can probably tell already why fundamentalism doesn't make sense to me. But slightly more on my own situation.

IV. The Argument

Obviously, I can't then subscribe to any particular moral or ethical theory, or to any set of moral laws, since I can't with certainty say of a situation or event whether it was good or bad, or both, or in what combination. I simply don't know the truth, but am obligated, as a human being, to make moral judgments. That is, moral judgments occur to me when I think about certain things-- I can't help it. But nothing in this world, including any rule, could possibly tell me whether what I perceive is correct, an illusion, or flat out wrong. That rule too, as a fact, a real, everyday, part of the world, would be unable, in itself, to show me value .

Fundamentalism is wrong, not because it struggles to apprehend an absolute value (we all do this, in one way or another, although some give up in despair), but because it claims that scripture, that is writing, even writing dictated by God, is that absolute. In the end, in order to claim such writing is absolute, the scripture itself must be treated as being equal with or a part of the Godhead. This is why I say that fundamentalism reduces religious faith to superstition-- In religious faith, we humans struggle with our relationship to an absolute which we cannot comprehend. In superstition, we substitute something temporary and comprehensible( a book, a statue, a law, a government) for the absolute and thereby abolish faith.

The most greivous sin of fundamentalism is elevating a rule, a law, that is, a lifeless thing, over real, living people. If my literalist reading of the Bible, for instance, compells me to see homosexuality as absolutely wrong, I have no choice but to oppose it and its practitioners by any necessary means. I have elevated the law, "Homosexuality is wrong," over all else, and law is an unforgiving master. No one needs an exposition on the horrors such extreme legalism has enacted in history.

Some will object to this line of reasoning, saying that I can draw the line somewhere, that if I follow God's Law, for instance (whatever that means--I consider myself to be an orthodox and reasonably well-read Christian, and I simply can't find Biblical justification for the idea of some absolute divine Law which we are compelled to follow and enact in the world), if I follow it well enough, that I can find the 'right answer' to any situation, and thereby not do wrong. The trouble is that any rule requires interpretation, and any rule can be followed in a multiplicity of ways. Furthermore, if I am capable of obeying a law of absolute correctness, then I must myself be absolute, perfectly good and able, and therefore the law is unnecessary. I am ultimately fallible and incapable even of knowing if my chosen action is truly in accordance with the law.

In short, "doing the right thing" is a pipe dream. I can give it an honest effort, but I (and anybody else willing to try) am able to second-guess my efforts indefinitely, and, if I look hard enough, to see a little bit wrong with virtually anything.
Being a truly good person, at least for me, isn't just hard, it's impossible. That's why I need religion in the first place.

Other things wrong with Christian Fundamentalists in the US:

Literal reading of the Bible makes no sense. Sure, one could read some books literally quite easily, but a literal reading of Daniel or Revelation misses the entire point. Judaeo-Christian apocalyptic literature is an established genre with rules, style, and idioms peculiar to it. Symbolic language and extended metaphor are essential to the genre. Reading Revelation as a straight-up predictor of future events makes about as much sense as reading the October 12, 1993 edition of TV Guide as a study of 17th century British knitting techniques. Reading the Bible and actually getting something worthwhile out of it is tricky, and takes a bit more effort than most fundamentalists seem ready to give.

Bringing the government in line with a literal reading of scripture is perverse. The entire point of the religious beliefs of the founding fathers (Christian, Deist, or whatever...) intruding into a few sentences like "endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights..." was that it served to justify their view of human beings as being worth protecting, and served to place their form of government in a context as subordinate to the Divine, thereby relieving government of the responsibility of aspiring to perfection. That is, governments try and do the best they can. That's all. Fundamentalists believe they can perfect government by bringing it in line with Divine law. This creates a new superstition, a new idolatry, which makes the state a kind of deity in its own right.

Slavish devotion to sets of rules, pietism and legalism all ignore the reality that laws, governments, and even morality were created to benefit humanity, not humanity created to support such institutions.

Fundamentalists, though by no means stupid or undereducated, are bad theologians, bad philosophers, and occasionally bad human beings because they allow themselves to be deceived into accepting a false security.
 
Being a "fundamentalist" muslim myself, I dont see any problem ?

It's not all that hard really.

Believe in1 God, Pray the 5, Fast the month, go on the pillgramage(Not dont that yet) & give charity when your pockets are full or empty.

Those are the fundamentals of Islam.

Maybe im an extremist too because I dont do drugs, drink, smoke or try to get laid.

YOU THINK IM BORING ??????

Far from the truth....

:cool:
 
Simon: "Very well, that is cool, but I am still confused about the thing about me paying more taxes because of one gentleman banging another in the bottom."

FL2: "I thought I explained it pretty good here:
It's the Dec15 post, 5:24. For some reason, I can't link to it. It's got a really long post by allan after it,"

And in that long post (which I wonder whether or not you read in entirety, FL2), I debunked your theory by explaining, rather simply, that homosexual sex does not lead to pregnancy, therefore cannot be held responsible for the rash of teenage pregnancies that often result in more welfare expenditures.

As for medical expenditures, there are very likely more expenditures for medical conditions arising from smoking cigarettes or eating high-fat diets than there are from homosexuals (or even the higher number of heterosexuals) getting AIDS. Yet we do not call for the banning of cigarettes or high-fat foods, do we?

Problem is, a person can live as much of a healthy life as he possibly can, yet still end up with debilitating medical problems (Alzheimers, genetically-caused cancer, injuries from accidents, etc.), resulting in society at least paying for whatever parts of his treatment the patient (or his insurance) can't pay for.

So therefore jumping on a bandwagon against some easily-targetted minority, a minority of THAT minority of whom ever get AIDS, with the dubious assertion that it is to the benefit of taxpayers to do so, just seems like dishonestly hiding one's TRUE motives in doing so. It certainly won't fool ME, boy....
 
"Magnus, I have no doubts whatsoever that you can provide reams of detailed 'scientific' 'evidence' to that effect. It's not like any sane scientist would even attempt to deny a published report that claimed sex was good for you. He'd never see a grant proposal again.

"And it's patently clear that anyone who does dare deny it will be ridiculed and verbally abused until they either submit or go away."

I take it that you actually have PROOF of this alleged persecution, rather than just tossing it out as a last, desperate tactic?

Sex is actually VERY good cardiovascular exercise. Sure you can also get such good exercise by running, swimming, or aerobics classes, but SEX is probably the most FUN--for me anyway, and I can be reasonably assured it is for whatever partner I have as well, who would be giving herself the same workout!

I'm not talking about five-minute "Al Bundy" sex though, so the key is in the ability to delay orgasm if you're the male--something that only really comes (no pun intended!) with practice.... And indeed, the purpose of GOOD sex for the male is NOT in his own satisfaction, but in making sure his partner is satisfied. THAT is what makes sex satisfying for me, hearing my female partner's recurring moans and shrieks of delight, hour after hour!

Put it this way, if I haven't had sex in awhile, I tend to put on weight, but when I have a girlfriend, that weight tends to come off soon enough....
 
if the sex organs dont get enough blood they can wither and malfunction - they actually feed when aroused (extra blood). Thus the more the better - so if you dont use it you may as well lose it!

hope that aint too graphic :p
 
"Allan, are you really a cabron??"

Well, maybe technically I am--I was conceived out of wedlock, but a year after I was born my mother married another man, not my biological father BUT my father nonetheless, in that he raised me with my mother.

However, "bastard" (="cabron") from what I understand is used when your biological father is UNKNOWN, and yet I DO know who he is, and have even had some contact with him.

I used the title "cabron" in its second Spanish meaning however, the "slang" (used in Mexico and Guatemala at least) meaning of "wise guy" or "tough guy" or what have you, actually a good-natured term used among friends, like my friends in Guatemala when I lived there for a year (who knew nothing of how the first meaning would apply to me)....
 
"You and I disagree on whether adequate parenting can prevent teen sex. Allow me to inform you that I was raised by devout Witnesses. While I have since fallen by the wayside, it was not until I was 29 that I engaged in sexual activity. My younger brother came into his late teens as my parents entered their 60s. They did not have the energy to properly parent him, and as a result, he is now 25, with three kids, and is maried to a professional welfare recipient. My two older brothers are a fellow bachelor (and almost certainly still a virgin) and a married man with two kids."

No, not every teen rebels--but a lot of them certainly do. I know "preacher's kids" who've strayed quite a bit, and who were sexually active in their teens. So for me the "preacher's kid" stereotype, while surely being a stereotype like any other, does have a bit of truth to it. Indeed in THEIR case, finding a distinct identity (which is a big thing for many adolescents) could very well mean shucking the "role" a preacher might want to set for their kids....

Some kids take everything told them by parents, other authorities, etc., without ever questioning them, and some do not. I happen to be one that didn't, my sister happened to be one that didn't (our parents were quite religious, and also tried to be as involved as they could in our lives--I fault them not ONE bit in that regard), and MANY people I grew up with didn't either. Some of course did however....

"Clearly, I have seen what good parenting can do for a child, raging hormones or no. Shall we simply agree to disagree, or will you accept that my evidence is a powerful argument in my favor?"

No, it is merely anecdotal--as are anecdotes of children that rebel against their parents' teachings. But given that both types of anecdotes exist means that a parent's teachings and parenting techniques do NOT necessarily dictate what a kid will end up doing. In a lot of cases far from it....
 
Back
Top Bottom