[GS] Future Update?

[Eagle Pursuit]

The survey was released too late to apply to anything already in the works. To meet a February release date, Firaxis would have had to have people working on XP3 all this time.

I believe the survey applies to their post-XP content. They’re at the unprecedented point of maintaining game content for a longer lifespan than previous games and were likely seeking fan input to that end.

I think the survey implies they are looking for a way to turn the Civ income stream into a G.A.A.S. model in a way that doesn't irritate long-time customers.

 

[The Kingmaker]

I think the survey implies they are looking for a way to turn the Civ income stream into a G.A.A.S. model in a way that doesn't irritate long-time customers.

Agreed.

 

[Timothy001]

@Eagle Pursuit Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a G.A.A.S. model?

 

[bite]

'Games As A Service'

 

[acluewithout]

I guess there’s really not much point speculating about a 3xp at this stage, in the sense that if they’re going to do it they’re going to do it, and whatever is going to be in it is decided.

There’s more than enough left for a third expansion. Just looking at BNW, there’s nothing comparable to Social Policies and Ideologies in the game that let you permanently shape your empire / civilization (beyond the initial choosing your Civ and getting a pantheon), FXS haven’t done much with Ideologies generally either (although we have tier 4 governments), and there’s no equivalent to tourism effecting civs with different ideologies.

There’s also no equivalent to empire management in Civ III, IV or V, eg no corruption or maintenance /gold squeeze or happiness issues, which feels like something the game is missing, although maybe FXS would be reluctant to do that stuff given past experience.

There’s plenty around those three things FXS could do, and plenty of existing mechanics FXS could leverage if they did - eg loyalty, tourism, happiness and tourism, dedications. FXS have been fairly consistent bringing back elements from Civ V and even Civ IV. I’d be surprised if they didn’t do something in this area, particularly as it would be a good jumping off point for buffing some mechanics eg Religion, Colonial Cities.

Then there are smaller or more discreet mechanics they might bring back; eg Corporations, National Wonders (although maybe Gov Plaza covers that), Plague (although maybe the BP Scenario covers that).

And then there’s just a bunch of small stuff: missing Civs (Maya, Portugal), Unit Gaps (Trebuchet), buildings (Hospitals).

There’s a few ways FXS could go. My best guess is a 3XP tackling the big stuff I mentioned earlier (which would explain eg why tourism currently doesn’t do anything beyond win condition etc) followed by mostly thematic dlc and alt civs and leaders.

Or, we could get a large dlc that doesn’t really introduce big mechanics but is a bunch of missing Civs and sort of “here’s all the other fan fav stuff like future units, trebuchets, and hospitals / police stations” or whatever and then maybe some more flavour dlc after that.

Or, they basically take what would be in a 3xp and drag that out over various dlc.

I’ll be really disappointed if we don’t get a 3xp at this stage or just some additional Civ / units / dlc pack. There’s room for one more proper Third Expansion and the game, while finally really awesome after all the previous expansions and patches, would just be so much better for a bit more expansion in a few key areas. Cross-fingers.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I think the survey implies they are looking for a way to turn the Civ income stream into a G.A.A.S. model in a way that doesn't irritate long-time customers.

Oh I seriously hope they don't go down that route. Sadly, I suspect that 2K is applying the thumb-screws though.

 

[Xandinho]

And then there’s just a bunch of small stuff: missing Civs (Maya, Portugal), Unit Gaps (Trebuchet), buildings (Hospitals).

The Zeus Statue is a blatant gap too, the only of the 7 wonders of the ancient world missing in the game.

 

[The Kingmaker]

I for one really want that castle district from the plague scenario, albeit with some different buildings.

 

[acluewithout]

The Zeus Statue is a blatant gap too, the only of the 7 wonders of the ancient world missing in the game.

Agreed. We also have a Trebuchet in the RnF Video and an Earthquake in the GA video, and neither have made it into the game yet.

[edit: I also think Barbarians and Goody Huts are ripe for a bit of a rework. Nothing drastic but I think a few tweaks could happily take these guys from completely two dimensional to, well, not fleshed out three dimensional game elements, but maybe like 2.5D+ elements.]

There’s plenty of areas where FXS can legitimately expand - a few big areas and then a heap of small areas. And I’m really not worried about bloat either. FXS showed in GS they can not only add stuff but also rework things to make sure the game is coherent - eg Grievances, Resources. I’m quite impressed they were willing to rework the WC so much in patches too.

Personally, I really hope we get a 3xp and then another year of patch support (if we get some flavour dlc too that’s fine by me). After that, I’d really like to see games like Colonization and Beyond Earth developed as big Expansion / Scenarios to the base game. I think Red Death and Black Plague have already shown just how flexibility the game engine and rule set can be.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Personally, I really hope we get a 3xp and then another year of patch support (if we get some flavour dlc too that’s fine by me). After that, I’d really like to see games like Colonization and Beyond Earth developed as big Expansion / Scenarios to the base game. I think Red Death and Black Plague have already shown just how flexibility the game engine and rule set can be.

As much as I'd want a Mythology spinoff game, I'd take it as a scenario in this game.

 

[acluewithout]

@Alexander's Hetaroi Personally, I think I’d struggle to be interested enough to buy a Civ Spin-Off Game, other than just to be a nice guys and support FXS. I’d be much more tempted / enthusiastic if it was a DLC Scenario (meaning the base game would probably still get some tweaking at the same time).

 

[bite]

Well if we look at things missing from past games as a precedent (which we shouldn't really but I did the data so oh well)


Civilizations

5 Appearances - Babylon
3 Appearances - Byzantium, The Maya, Portugal
2 Appearances - Ethiopia, Iroquois
1 Appearance - Assyria, Austria, Hittite, Huns, Morocco, Shoshone, Siam, Songhai, Sioux, Venice

(excluding ones that have a version in this game ie Celts/Scotland or The Vikings/Norway/Sweden)

World Wonders

5 Appearances - Globe Theatre#, Great Wall*, United Nations#,
3 Appearances - Hoover Dam, Kremlin*, Pentagon#, Statue of Zeus,
2 Appearances - Notre Dame, Parthenon*,
1 Appearance - Apostolic Palace, Borobudur, Brandenburg Gate, CN Tower, Great Mosque of Djenne, Himeji Castle, Leaning Tower of Pisa, Louvre, Neuschwanstein, Porcelain Tower, Red Fort, Shwedagon Paya, Spiral Minaret, Three Gorges Dam, Uffizi, Versailles, Hubble Space Telescope

(* means that it appears in civ 6 in some form, # means that the number of appearances induces it appearing in other forms than just world wonder)

Natural Wonders

1 Appearance - Barringer Crater, Cerro de Potosi, Grand Mesa, Krakatoa*, Lake Victoria*, Mt Fuji*, Mt Kailash, Mt Sinai*, Old Faithful, Rock of Gibraltar, Sri Pada

(* means they are in Civ 6 as a Geographical Feature)

Analysis

When it comes to Civilisations the fact that Babylon is not in the game as a full civ, is probably the best clue that there is something else coming, or that they are ignoring years of precedent (and some hints in the civiliopedia). You would expect also that many of the other multiple re-occurrence civs like The Maya would also be considered MIA if there is nothing else coming.

For the World Wonders, it gets a bit more tricky because they have a lot more one off appearances than any other part in the game. However, given that we have all the other 7 Wonders of the World (Pyramids, Colossus, Hanging Gardens, Great Lighthouse, Mausoleum at Halicarnassus & the Temple of Artemis) as well as all the New 7 Wonders of the World (Great Wall*, Petra, Cristo Redentor, Machu Picchu, Chichen itza, Colossum & Taj Mahal) then the lack of Temple of Zeus is telling. And you would think that they would add Notre Dame as well.

For the Natural Wonders, this is a more fluid list as this is only the second time that they have been in the game, but you would think that there are several more examples that they could add to the game if they wanted to.

 

[The Kingmaker]

I would quibble that the ancient Celts (Gauls/Britons) that have been in Civ so far are different enough from the golf-playing Scotland to qualify as a separate civ in your list, but perhaps others don’t see it the same way.

Random thought: if the Statue of Zeus has been kept waiting, perhaps it’s for a reason?

What if it’s the symbol of the game this time around? 2 out of 3 symbols have been famous statues (Atlas and the Discus Thrower). Vesuvius is the odd one out, though of course it fits with Gathering Storm. What if the third symbol is Zeus? (Either that or Rodin’s Thinker, which I believe I’ve already seen them use somewhere.)

Zeus would totally fit for an XP focused on revamping religion. Plus he’s a classical statue like the first two.

 

[acluewithout]

@bite Appreciate this isn’t necessarily what you’re saying, but to be clear missing civ + missing wonders doesn’t necessarily mean Third Expansion. FXS could obviously just release a Civ and Wonders dlc (boo!).

Missing units (eg Trebuchet) has the same problem - they could very easily be added as part of a small dlc or as part of a Civ pack.

However, FXS have been fairly consistent bringing back Civ 4 and 5 mechanics (more the later really). To me, there are a chunk of mechanics around permanently shaping your Civ, ideological conflict and managing your empire’s economy that are missing that I think FXS would be tempted to bring back (and which I think would actually significantly improve the game, but I’m biased). To me, that’s the stronger argument for a third do.

(Plus I recall Ed said he wanted to do more around ideologies but that was a million years ago, so that could easily have fallen away.)

Anyway. Added to that, it isn’t so much that this Civ is missing, or that wonder is missing, or this unit is missing. It’s that there are a lot of those things missing and also lots of mechanics that could easily be polished up a bit. It feels like a bunch of stuff is missing because FXS have held back things in order to fill out an expansion. Stuff that’s missing includes: Civs (Byzantium, Maya and Portugal), Wonders (Zesus), Units (Trebuchet, Longswordsman, Composite Bowman), Buildings (Police Station, Court, Hospital), smaller mechanics (Corporations, Plague). Stuff that could easily be tweaked / expanded: Gov Plaza and Gov Buildings; Barbarians; World Congress (related Wonders - eg U.N. Building), how WC starts, types of emergencies etc); Religion.

There is some big stuff missing from the game. But there is just so much little stuff missing, it seems crazy there wouldn’t be a third expansion. Although, you know, FXS probably could just have a DLC with 8 more Civs, and a few wonders, and chunk of missing units, buildings whatever etc., and not really bother to have any significant new mechanics. I think that would be a big pity if they went that route rather than a third expansion, but it’s a definite possibility.

But hey. What do I know? I thought the last expansion would rework Governors and Gov Plaza. Instead I got Coal Powerplants and Volcanos. FXS are full of surprises (and hey, my expectations have been totally smashed by GS and June and September patches. So, you know, not worried. Well. Mostly not worried).

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I consider the omitted series regular list to be
Portugal
Byzantines
Babylon
Maya

Edge case: Ethiopia

Runner up: Iroquois

The first four have had 3 or more appearances. Ethiopia has had 2 consecutive appearances and may be due for a third. The Iroquois have had 2 nonconsecutive appearances.

Honorable mention: Austria

Austria had a hidden inclusion in a previous iteration, but you had to mod the game files for it to appear, so I count it even less than the Iroquois.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Some people will hate this, but I consider the Byzantines to be the perfect case for Second Leader instead.

 

[Deliverator]

There’s also no equivalent to empire management in Civ III, IV or V, eg no corruption or maintenance /gold squeeze or happiness issues, which feels like something the game is missing, although maybe FXS would be reluctant to do that stuff given past experience.

I think related concepts to these are in Civ VI in Amenties, Housing, Loyalty but they perhaps don't have the same bite that they have done in the previous games.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I think related concepts to these are in Civ VI in Amenties, Housing, Loyalty but they perhaps don't have the same bite that they have done in the previous games.

Yes, I agree. If people want them to revamp current mechanics like these, that's fine and understandable. But please don't throw more on top just because they were in previous versions. It would just muddy everything up.

 

[bite]

Some people will hate this, but I consider the Byzantines to be the perfect case for Second Leader instead.

Given the mechanic is there, I think this is a fine option

 

[blackcatatonic]

To me, the most striking omission is Babylon, followed by Maya, Portugal and Byzantium.

We should also get another SEA Civ (I'd go with Vietnam), another African Civ (probably Ethiopia, though there are other candidates), another NA Civ (Sioux, Iroquois, Apache?) and of course the last slot will be Italy because Italy, dammit.