G&H's Catalonia for Vox Populi

[N.Core]

I just read the post on Bare Necessities, my line address is not going to be much use .

Yeah, someone probably messed up the DLL.
I already report this to some DLL guys on VP Discord server, if this is true then I will report this on GitHub.

 

[gwennog]

After many games against Catalonia played by the AI, I noticed that this one systematically takes Authority. I would like her to choose Tradition from time to time but I can't find the settings (Leaders features, biases and/or flavors) for it. Can anyone help me ? Thank you.

 

[gwennog]

v.2 online :

"Color in certain places has the great value of making the outlines and structural planes seem more energetic."

- Antoni Gaudí i Cornet​

Bug fix :

• Some display bugs
• Important bug when the International Brigades were disbanded

Llotja :

• lose original building +2 Culture
• lose Culture cost of adopting new Policies reduced by 1%
• Gain +1 Production, Science and Culture per Llotja in all Cities

Crypt now 20% of building Production is converted into Great Merchant Points on completion of any building from Industrial era or later instead of 10%.

Aspe now 20% of building Production is converted into Great Engineer Points on completion of any building from Industrial era or later instead of 10%.

 

[KlHannibal2]

I gave V2 a try. Seeing the new Llotja I felt going wide with authority would be good. The Llotja yields per city are very strong. And I managed to get god of the expanse and angkor wat, giving me enough gold and production to settle and develeop many cities.

I did not try the UUs yet as I just unlocked the Almogaver. From the description, it looks interesting. But I can't help hating the scout line for UUs. It has lower CS than the melee line, fewer promotions useful for combat, and the units unlock at techs that you don't go for early if you play military-heavy. So would I ever get thos over regular infantry or melee cavalry?

 

[gwennog]

The Llotja yields per city are very strong.

Do not hesitate to tell me if you find it too powerful, I am still torn. I play more Tradition and therefore I never have a lot of cities, but with a more expansive Authority-type game, I wouldn't want it to become overpowered.

I did not try the UUs yet as I just unlocked the Almogaver. From the description, it looks interesting. But I can't help hating the scout line for UUs. It has lower CS than the melee line, fewer promotions useful for combat, and the units unlock at techs that you don't go for early if you play military-heavy. So would I ever get thos over regular infantry or melee cavalry?

If you look closely, in fact the Almogaver is a melee unit with melee promotions. It is only at the upgrade that it becomes a reconnaissance unit (Commando), at a time when Catalonia should have started a less warlike turn.
Anyway, thank you very much for trying this civ and for your feedback.

 

[KlHannibal2]

Do not hesitate to tell me if you find it too powerful, I am still torn. I play more Tradition and therefore I never have a lot of cities, but with a more expansive Authority-type game, I wouldn't want it to become overpowered.

If you look closely, in fact the Almogaver is a melee unit with melee promotions. It is only at the upgrade that it becomes a reconnaissance unit (Commando), at a time when Catalonia should have started a less warlike turn.
Anyway, thank you very much for trying this civ and for your feedback.

My gut feeling says the Llotja could be nerved, but I only played one game and had ideal conditions. I would leave it for now and wait for more feedback. Getting god of the expanse and angkor wat is far from guaranteed. Without these, you would have way fewer yields and it would be harder to have many cities or you would fall behind in tech if you have them.
Comparing it with other buildings, the egyptian burial tomb comes to mind. That gives 8 culture and 5 science and the usual caravansaray stuff. With 5 to 6 cities, the Llotja gives more. If you also consider the nilometer, Egypt gets 11 extra culture per city at that point. So I would consider them roughly even at this point for wide play. But the Llotja scales with more cities while the egyptian UBs don't even spawn their artifact/flax, if you conquer a city that had the base version of the UB.
Then again, Catalonia does not have military bonuses to speak of. So going super-wide with conquest can be tough. I also played on Milae's map where there is more space to settle. On a standard pangea or continents map, you might have space for only 4 cities.

The almogaver itself I find decent, but the fact that it upgrades into commando makes it weak later. But with a strong economy, a weaker UU is ok.

 

[gwennog]

My gut feeling says the Llotja could be nerved, but I only played one game and had ideal conditions. I would leave it for now and wait for more feedback. Getting god of the expanse and angkor wat is far from guaranteed. Without these, you would have way fewer yields and it would be harder to have many cities or you would fall behind in tech if you have them.
Comparing it with other buildings, the egyptian burial tomb comes to mind. That gives 8 culture and 5 science and the usual caravansaray stuff. With 5 to 6 cities, the Llotja gives more. If you also consider the nilometer, Egypt gets 11 extra culture per city at that point. So I would consider them roughly even at this point for wide play. But the Llotja scales with more cities while the egyptian UBs don't even spawn their artifact/flax, if you conquer a city that had the base version of the UB.
Then again, Catalonia does not have military bonuses to speak of. So going super-wide with conquest can be tough. I also played on Milae's map where there is more space to settle. On a standard pangea or continents map, you might have space for only 4 cities.

Yes, at the moment I play with and against and I encountered few cases where it seemed too powerful.

The almogaver itself I find decent, but the fact that it upgrades into commando makes it weak later. But with a strong economy, a weaker UU is ok.

By becoming a commando, he keeps his melee combat promotions, making him a serious troop. But actually, I follow Hinin's guideline for this unit but I'm mixed at the moment.

 

[KlHannibal2]

The Almogaver does not get XP from pillaging in my current game, but he does get the full heal.
BTW, why does he get formation 2, but not 1?

 

[gwennog]

The Almogaver does not get XP from pillaging in my current game, but he does get the full heal.

Thank you for the remark, I made a change a while ago but without notifying it. In fact Desperta Ferro gives ignore ZOC and heal fully on pillage.

BTW, why does he get formation 2, but not 1?

It looks like an oversight on my part, I'm confused

Thank you very much for your follow up, I will correct that.

 

[KlHannibal2]

I just noticed that from some point in renaissance onward, all newly created units did not get the gran compania promotion. All older units have it.

Very cool civ!

 

[gwennog]

I just noticed that from some point in renaissance onward, all newly created units did not get the gran compania promotion. All older units have it.

Very cool civ!

Yes, it's a bug in civ that should be fixed on the next version (hopefully). Normally, all Renaissance era units must lose promotion or not gain it (except the Almogaver). Currently, it is no longer earned but it is not lost in old upgraded units.

Thank you .

 

[KlHannibal2]

Some more feedback: it seems the yields per Llotja are a bit bugged. What I noticed: if I build a new Llotja, it correctly gets the ammount of yields according to the number of Llotjas you have. But Llotjas that existed before seem to not get updated in their yields. The yields at the old Llotja itself does rise, but not the citie's yields. Or at least those older Llotjas don't update consistently.

I had a similar impression with the korean Chaebol that uses the same mechanic. Heck, I'm not even sure if the 2 production every factory gets for all factories you have does work correctly.

Did you observe that too?

 

[gwennog]

Some more feedback: it seems the yields per Llotja are a bit bugged. What I noticed: if I build a new Llotja, it correctly gets the ammount of yields according to the number of Llotjas you have. But Llotjas that existed before seem to not get updated in their yields. The yields at the old Llotja itself does rise, but not the citie's yields. Or at least those older Llotjas don't update consistently.

I had a similar impression with the korean Chaebol that uses the same mechanic. Heck, I'm not even sure if the 2 production every factory gets for all factories you have does work correctly.

Did you observe that too?

I admit that I was not as observant as you but I will check, if I see the same thing, I will have to publish it on Github.

Thank you.

 

[gwennog]

v.3 online:

Following several points raised by @KlHannibal2 about Almogaver

• Add Formation I
• Change Promotion Icon and description of Desperta Ferro

 

[gwennog]

Some more feedback: it seems the yields per Llotja are a bit bugged.

I tested with V3.2 (only once), I did not find any problem.

 

[KlHannibal2]

I tested with V3.2 (only once), I did not find any problem.

Thank you for the update. Do you know if the bug was corrected in VP 3.2 that caused the gran compania promotion to not be received by newer units?
I might start another game with Catalonia, but I would miss this promotion .

 

[gwennog]

Do you know if the bug was corrected in VP 3.2 that caused the gran compania promotion to not be received by newer units?
I might start another game with Catalonia, but I would miss this promotion .

No, it hasn't been fixed, but the bug isn't that new units don't receive the promotion, it's that medieval units keep it when they are upgraded to a Renaissance unit . Only the Almogavers must keep it when it is upgraded to Commando.
The UA say :

All Military units before Renaissance Era start with Gran Companyia Promotion.

OK, while writing it I realize that it is not very clear .
I really wanted to mark the passage from an era of conquest for Catalonia under the Crown of Aragon to a more withdrawn era under the Crown of Castile then an economic and cultural revival at the beginning of the industrial era through the Sagrada Familia and the many GPs that arrive.
The second reason is that this promotion becomes powerful on the other side of the world, so it disappears in the era where units can be thrown very far.

 

[KlHannibal2]

No, it hasn't been fixed, but the bug isn't that new units don't receive the promotion, it's that medieval units keep it when they are upgraded to a Renaissance unit . Only the Almogavers must keep it when it is upgraded to Commando.
The UA say :

OK, while writing it I realize that it is not very clear .
I really wanted to mark the passage from an era of conquest for Catalonia under the Crown of Aragon to a more withdrawn era under the Crown of Castile then an economic and cultural revival at the beginning of the industrial era through the Sagrada Familia and the many GPs that arrive.
The second reason is that this promotion becomes powerful on the other side of the world, so it disappears in the era where units can be thrown very far.

Ah, I overlooked that. So if you create a unit before entering Renaissance, it will get and keep the promotion after upgrading. Units creared after entering Renaissance will not have it, right?

 

[gwennog]

Ah, I overlooked that. So if you create a unit before entering Renaissance, it will get and keep the promotion after upgrading. Units creared after entering Renaissance will not have it, right?

Yes, with the VP bug, it's exactly that.
If/when the bug will be corrected, all units (except Almogaver) will lose the promotion by being upgraded to a Renaissance unit.
If you think the bonus is too low, they could be increased to 2% per tile of distance to the capital but of course, provided the bug is fixed.

 

[Captain Carrot]

I'm no modder, so no idea if it'll help, and you may have already tried this, but you can look into how Unique City-States handles conditional removal of promotions.