Game of the Month SGs - Discussion Thread.

[mad-bax]

I hate rules, but we probably need them. I thought I'd open the discussion up with this draft. It isn't final, and I invite comment (please).

SGOTM rules.
The Game administrator will decide who plays in which teams. Teams may pick themselves, but the game administrator will have the right to strengthen or weaken a team in the interests of balance.
The teams may decide on the order of play themselves.
The first person in the roster plays to the end of the 3000BC turn.
Everyone plays ten turns each after this. In some games the team may decide that five turns/player would be better. This is fine.
When a save is posted, the next player in the roster must post a "got it" within 24hrs and post a new save within 72hrs. If you are late you will be auto-skipped unless you have asked for an extension.
If you are auto-skipped twice in succession you will be removed from the roster.
The threads used by other teams are off-limits unless otherwise stated.
The discussion of information from spoiler threads relevant to the original game is not permitted.

SGOTM ettiquette
Ask to be skipped, or play your turns on time. Please don't just go missing in action.
Do not automate workers.
Do not use city governors.
Do not leave units on goto orders that extend beyond your set of turns.
Do not make trades on your last turn, but by all means offer advice to the following player.
Finish all your turns and upload the game saved at the END of the last turn.
Stick rigidly to the saved game naming convention.
Include the turn number and the in-game date for each turn in your log. Note: you receive the game at turn 0
Do not change build orders wholesale on your inherited turn. One or two is OK, more is irritating for the preceding player.
Include a summary at the end of the turnlog that communicates your intentions. (Where is that galley going?)
Please post your Firaxis score at the end of your turn.
Finally, Mac users are very welcome to play, but should ensure that their browsers do not upload files in MacBinary format. Please PM AlanH if in doubt about how to do this.

 

[akots]

Originally posted by mad-bax
... The Game administrator will decide who plays in which teams. Teams may pick themselves, but the game administrator will have the right to strengthen or weaken a team in the interests of balance.

Seems fair but IMO team members are allowed to settle dispute with game administrator in a peaceful manner. There is no way to force people play together if they don't want for some reason.

GOTM Scoring

How a combination of various conditions would be scored? For example 5CC+AW or OCC+AW?

My Interpretation of RBCiv Rules

Plus all RBC exploits and all GOTM exploits are banned?

AW Variant Rules.

No peace ever! Not "war by the end of turn". Start the war after first diplo screen and stay at war forever.

Combinations of these varients may also be used, however blatant attempts to exploit the scoring system ...

Please explain, this is unclear.

Otherwise looks great.

 

[samildanach]

Originally posted by mad-bax

SGOTM rules.
The Game administrator will decide who plays in which teams. Teams may pick themselves, but the game administrator will have the right to strengthen or weaken a team in the interests of balance.

Good. There are two declared teams so far- both of them quite strong which may need to be diluted as a large number of players have expressed an interest in playing.
Also, I think you were right about limiting the teams to four players for this map - given that it is small and at regent. Of course my team the barbies and the Motley Crew have already challenged your god given right to maintain parity and player participation within the SGOTM. I think its in everyones interest and in the interest of an enjoyable game if you enforce this.....use a gun only if you have to

 

[mad-bax]

I'm not going to change the staff team. I think it is a really good idea to have a staff team, and it is right that it should be strong. It makes them a traget however...

If they are too strong then I will find a way of handicapping them.

Your team samildanach is a little strong and has 5 players. If it only had 4 players then I would be able to add a less experienced player to the team. This would balance the team better and be of enormous benefit to the player I add. My problem now is how do I go about this without perambulators being emptied of toys? Maybe Gozpel would volunteer to join the OCC team as he expressed an interest in it.

akots: The point about scoring abuse is that the scoring bonuses have not been arrived at scientifically. I've just held a finger in the air and made a judgement. So the bonuses will be wrong. I don't want people artificially selecting combinations of bonuses that will give them a score that is not representative of how well they played the game, because of my inadequate performance in setting those bonuses.

At the moment, and because I don't know how else to do it I am just going to add the bonuses together before plugging into Jason. Is 5CC + AW roughly equivalent to OCC. Well, it depends on the map doesn't it?

I hope that a straight game will still be capable of acheiving the highest score. The bonuses are for fun and interest and encouragement to try something other than a straight race to domination.

 

[samildanach]

Originally posted by mad-bax
I'm not going to change the staff team. I think it is a really good idea to have a staff team, and it is right that it should be strong. It makes them a traget however...

If they are too strong then I will find a way of handicapping them.

Originally posted by mad-bax

Your team samildanach is a little strong and has 5 players. If it only had 4 players then I would be able to add a less experienced player to the team. This would balance the team better and be of enormous benefit to the player I add. My problem now is how do I go about this without perambulators being emptied of toys? Maybe Gozpel would volunteer to join the OCC team as he expressed an interest in it.

I don't mind being moved either - my perambulator has been denuded of toys in previous episodes so no need to worry. I think that if player numbers stay at 32 we should go with 8 teams of four - if we get 33 sign ups then we should accomodate the staff team as is. But if it stays at 32 then it means we will have 4 teams of 5 players, 5 players is too many for this map IMO and people may not get enough opportuinities to play or for newer players to learn. I agree that the staff team makes an interesting "target" but not at the price of being detrimental to other team compositions or other players opportuinities to play.

 

[AlanH]

As I seem to be holding the spare keys to the gotm databases and scoring tools and database-driven web pages at the moment, if you want any assistance with presenting the progress and results, let me know. I'm sure I can twist Ainwood's arm into letting me publish one or two pages to assist

 

[AlanH]

Originally posted by samildanach
I agree that the staff team makes an interesting "target" but not at the price of being detrimental to other team compositions or other players opportuinities to play.

Well it just got stronger! I've jumped ship because I only play Civ3. So I'm on mad-bax's transfer market stall right now and the staff team is the right size. If we're not careful you and I could end up in that team that's always made up of the left-overs in the playground.

 

[samildanach]

Originally posted by AlanH

Well it just got stronger! I've jumped ship because I only play Civ3. So I'm on mad-bax's transfer market stall right now and the staff team is the right size. If we're not careful you and I could end up in that team that's always made up of the left-overs in the playground.

I don't mind playing vanilla civ. I would prefer not to play OCC though. I''l leave it up to M.B to decide who he wants to move out of the Barbies - I don't have a problem if its me though.

 

[Rocinante]

Originally posted by mad-bax

1. How often should a new game be started?every month

2. Who should pick the teams and how?veterans can sort themselves out and newbies can be routed by the host into new teams or fit into existing teams as requested

3. Should teams be able to stay together and even have custom team names? If yes, then would a league table be a good idea?absolutely

4. Should games be exactly duplicated, or should they be changed with different playable civ, starting locations, respun resources etc?no changes from original GOTM

5. Should victory conditions be specified? Would it be too extreme to specify a game as always war or 5 city challenge for example? We could even say that a game had to be played as either 5CC or AW and let the individual teams decide which they want to do... and which will give them the best score.laizze faire

6. What rules should be used?password protect team threads

7. How will the game to be played be chosen.. by poll or by me or should we just play them in order from GOTM 1 up or something else?1, 2, 3 ....

9. Would a game converted to C3C be interesting, and are there enough people interested with the software?no interest here

 

[mad-bax]

OK guys, lets put some thought into the awards for this competition.

Firstly, let me say right off the bat that there is an inherent problem with awards for SGOTM. The problem is that teams play at different speeds, and some games played to extreme variants or where the team get themselves in trouble can last a long time.

Some ideas on how to deal with that would be appreciated.

Assuming we have awards then which awards will we have?

Gold, silver and bronze seem reasonable. But because of the lower number of games being played, the other awards such as fastest diplo etc are a nonsense really. (IMHO).

Are there any other SG related awards that could be used instead.

I have a couple of ideas, like

1. Most extreme variant (must win game)
2. Most entertaining in-game thread (voted on)
3. Warmongers award. Fastest finish (AW, NOW or OW)

Any other suggestions?

 

[a space oddity]

Good suggestions.

We might think about awards to try to smoothen the process, like fastest finish measured in real time or an award for least longest turnaroud time. In addition to that we might have to impose a fixed end-date.

 

[handy900]

Hi Mad,

Where do I need to go to sign up for a team? I can't seem to locate a "place me on a team" thread. If it's too late for the current game, no problem. But I'd like to know for next month. THX.

 

[denyd]

handy900:

The current month is closed already, but you might consider lurking on the threads and see if any of the teams loses a player, you might be able to step in.

Check on the GOTM Forum, SGOTM Sub-Forum for the game threads (there are 10 games going at last count).

Best of luck

 

[handy900]

Originally posted by denyd
handy900:

The current month is closed already, but you might consider lurking on the threads and see if any of the teams loses a player, you might be able to step in.

Check on the GOTM Forum, SGOTM Sub-Forum for the game threads (there are 10 games going at last count).

Best of luck

Thanks.

 

[mad-bax]

Another discussion topic.

Ideally, I would like everyone to stay out of each others threads and the original spoiler threads. Unfortunately it's not going to happen unless I start banning people. At this embryonic stage I don't want to do that. Therefore rather than penalise the cross-lurkers by banning, or penalise the non-cross-lurkers by doing nothing I decided to allow everyone to read each others threads.

I'm beginning to regret it.

Since I have done this, conversation in some of the game threads is now centred around what other teams are doing, and how to beat them, even though this is specifically prohibited.

So the question is.... How do I convince to people to play their own games without the benefit of foresight and without exploiting every chink and microscopic perforation in what is supposed to be a relaxed and laid back set of guidelines?

Do I really have to police this fun event?

 

[conehead234]

Maybe threaten give them a score penatly. Is there a way that you can put a password on the thread and only the people that know it can enter.

Also if your game is done like my team's are we allowed to lurk in other threads?

 

[TedJackson]

Unfortunately there are always players who will try to beat the rules rather than beat the game

Score penalties might deter some but how about a "Sneaks" award, given to the team that has cribbed most from other threads


Ted

 

[zagnut]

Originally posted by conehead234
Maybe threaten give them a score penatly. Is there a way that you can put a password on the thread and only the people that know it can enter.

Also if your game is done like my team's are we allowed to lurk in other threads?

I like the idea of a password if that is possible. IMHO you should be able to read the other threads if your team has finished.

There has to be some mechanical process, such as a password, to stop the lurking. We are people and the tempation to get intelligence that can make us look good is much more powerful than playing by the rules. This is especially true if we think we won't be caught or if there are no consequences. Even after 2 1/2 years of the GOTM, when everybody knows the rules on reloading, there are still people who try to get away with reloading every month.

There is pressure on players during a SG because there are different levels of experience on the various teams. Nobody wants to look bad to his or her teammates, or let the team down by making a mistake, so it is hard to resist the tempation to just have a peek at the other team's games. In order to prevent this it is not enough to just say "don't do it".

Either the threads have to be private or there must be consequences if someone is caught reading another team's thread. I favor the private threads because it is much easier to administer. Having consequences means that there has to be a police force, much time spent, embarrassment, public flogging, etc. All too time consuming.

 

[samildanach]

Originally posted by a space oddity

[/i] or an award for least longest turnaroud time.

Another award I have no chance of winning. That award is going to be won by gung-ho rambo type players like you and Ted. While thoughtful, intelligent players like me for instance will be barely into our zen like meditative strategic trance

As far as other teams spying on the Egotistical Swine is concerned. Who can blame them? We are brilliant
But we could have been more brilliant. You come to my team M.B and take one of our stud players - Ted - saying that you need him for one of the new teams. And what happens - I expected to see him captaining one of the new squads - but NOOOOOOOOoooooo I find to my utter disbeleif that you have taken "the hammer" and put him on your team. You are a complete rascal M.B and I think your game should be scored at level or two below chieftain. I would hope that all other players would completely agree with this Even the staff team wouldn't stoop to this level of skullduggery.....at least not everyday

 

[mad-bax]

But can vBulletin 3.0 handle threads that are open to everyone except certain named people, or does it work by allowing certain people in? In other words would genuine lurkers be able to access the game threads?

If you want to be picky... how would you stop a player deleting his cookie and browsing as guest, or using someone elses cookie.

I fear that the only solution may be completely private threads as zagnut says.

Since you won't be able to lurk, you'll just have to play instead