Game Tracking Thread

With regards to my earlier suggestion, i agree with BCLG changes.



Well what would classify as a mistake of a serious nature? That will just lead to another debate. Apart from the settling of a city which can't be reversed what other mistake would you suggest that there should be a chance of getting a reload for?

The point of my proposal is to have a debate about what is serious. I'm concerned that if we make a hard rule like only misclicking a settler is a serious mistake something else that the majority of us would consider serious will pop up and we'll be screwed.

I trust the people on this forum. While individuals may behave in dishonorable ways from time to time, when a majority decision is made it is generally a just decision. Therefore, I believe it's best to leave situations like this in the player's hands rather than craft a rule which will constrain the use of our reasoning.

I'll admit that the most likely situation that would require a reload is a settlement error, and you've developed a decent ruleset for that situation. I can imagine a few less critical, and less likely situations which I personally would allow a reload on as long as doing so wouldn't greatly impact other teams. For example, accidental deletion of a great person. Until we discuss such a situation we won't know where the majority's opinion lies.

It's also possible that an individual who became disgrunteled would log in and perform a series of unauthorized and self destructive moves before leaving the game in a huff. Mass unit deletions, attacks on allies, mass whipping/drafting. I don't think we'd want to continue with the consequences of such an attack. I don't think such a thing is likely to happen, but it is possible, and thus I'd feel a whole lot safer with a rule that allows us to use our judgement about what a 'serious' case is rather than one which narrowly defines what 'serious' is.
 
When considering this as a rules revision I would suggest that there is still some kind of vote or veto.

Why?

Consider later in the game that other teams may have experienced excellent results or have some exceptional successes in a turn, and then a reload is requested. The results of another teams turn may even outweigh the "misstep" that the requesting team took.

Those teams should be allowed to present a case for not reloading. Perhaps even a veto because of the exceptional successes that they have (and a game moderator would have to verify those successes).

The reload shouldn't simply happen because TEAMA wants it at the forfeiture of TEAMB's success.

I don't speak for Team Merlot - and I await King Indiansmoke's decision on the specific issue of Sommerswords request. My comment isn't directed at this particular incident and I fully empathize with Sommersword (having fat fingers myself). My comment is only in consideration for making a new game rule.
 
I think the current situation has to be considered.

Sommerswerd explained it already. The main points are:

1. It was the beginning of the turn and nobody else did anything so far.
2. The location of the city was planned way in the past.

DaveMcW can easily see that the above it fact.

I really can not understand why this causes such a discussion here.

Personally I agree that saying we'll withdraw from the game if we do not get a reload, but that early in the game a wrong city location can be critical.

Any team could get into such a situation and maybe hope for a reload.

Of course it's hard to be objective in this situation, but I assure everybody that in such a situation, I would support a reload for any team!!

I honestly hope that there are people out there who are not thinking like some lawyers that want to avoid precedence cases. After all this is a game and should be enjoyed by everybody. For the Amazons this could easily be destroyed by a blindfold decision!
 
When considering this as a rules revision I would suggest that there is still some kind of vote or veto.
I think it has to be a veto rather than a vote. Otherwise the door is left open for the vote to be influenced by what in-game alliances you've formed, rather than just fairness or taking pity. And that would cause a lot of angst on the forums. Say there's a 4v1 war later in the game. If one of the 4 mucks up disastrously and accidentally, their allies can vote them a reload. But if the 1 mucks up, the other 4 can squash the vote and laugh all the way to victory.
 
I really can not understand why this causes such a discussion here.

Personally I agree that saying we'll withdraw from the game if we do not get a reload, but that early in the game a wrong city location can be critical.
!

The ref, Dave McW, said I am generally against giving reloads for mistakes, but if three other teams express support within 24 hours I'll allow the reload to go through.

One of your players threatened that you'll just kick the board over and leave if you don't get your way. Now you've popped in to tell everyone they shouldn't even be discussing it, they should just give in to what you demand...

Can I use an Aussie phrase and say "stop acting like a galah"?

Personally I'm sympathetic to you getting your reload (though a bit worried it might cause ill-feeling if another team then has a reload request denied later). But rein in the attitude, please.

Of course the decision is going to be discussed. Say you get your reload, against the wishes of some other team. Say that other team is later denied a reload. And say you then defeat that team. How would the members of that team feel about the game then? And how would they feel if someone had bullied everyone into not even discussing your reload before giving it to you? :confused:

Most games on this site (GOTM, HOF) say you live with your mistakes. So the way I see it, a reload is a favour not a right. So pull your head in and let people discuss it! :)
 
I really can not understand why this causes such a discussion here.

Personally I agree that saying we'll withdraw from the game if we do not get a reload, but that early in the game a wrong city location can be critical.

It seems like the general tone here is that a reload is legitimate in this case, but we disagree about how reloads should be decided in the future. Don't confuse debate over the ruleset as debate over if a reload will occur for you in this case. That's being decided in the team forums by team votes, as that's the mechanism currently in place.

I will report that the vote of team Sirius is currently 7 in favor of a reload and 1 against, so it seems likely that we will vote in favor of allowing a reset for this case. I, or one of my teamates will update you if the vote changes.
 
I just asked IF there was a rule, sorry for opening the proverbial can of worms. :(

This however is a concern to me now...

d. A request must be made on the turn of settling or the immediate turn after if that team was the last team to play.
This can be seriously exploited if the LAST team to play asks for a reload after the turn roll.

I am only speaking for myself.

The decision for Merlot will be made by our King of course.
 
Well that's not the rule, suggest an alternative. I fail to see how it can be anymore or less exploitave the turn after, it was more making the point that a request has to be made immediately.
 
I can't really think of a kind of mistake other than placing a city that I would consider serious enough to merit a reload, so the amendment as proposed by the CDZ guys seems sufficient to me.

Simply saying "serious" mistake is inadequate. If there are other situations which would merit a reload I'd say name them specifically so they can be listed in the amendment.

The next most serious, irreversible mistake I could think of would be accidentally whipping something, which I would personally not consider worthy of a reload. From there you have unit moves, which can be completely undone in no more than 2 turns outside of a combat situation, and are unfair to the other team in a combat situation. Anything else is easily reversible or requires plenty of confirmation.

Malicious use of the team by a disgruntled ex-teammate seems like a given.
 
In the last game a reload was done for a similar though probably even less "important" issue. A capitol was badly and pointlessly whipped by an accidental click.
 
So I see a lot of discussion about making a rule-set for reloads. All of this would take a while. I think a vote by the various teams would make the most sense as we don;t want a time delay. Then we can create a rule set for the future.

Voting on this of course is going to be somewhat of a quid-pro-quo as I expect other teams will make similar mistakes in the future. I think it is probably in every team's interest to be flexible on this sort of thing as stupid errors like this take away from the point of this game.
 
I think voting on what can constitute a reload is a very good idea. With Sommersword's situation I can relate to VERY much so I can understand the need for this.
 
lurker's comment: The immediate question: "Allow a reload for this occasion ?" is dealt with now by DaveMcW's admin decision.
May I suggest to start a seperate thread in the main forum (below) for the discussion on: "Under which circumstances do we allow reloads ?"
 
lurker's comment: The immediate question: "Allow a reload for this occasion ?" is dealt with now by DaveMcW's admin decision.
May I suggest to start a seperate thread in the main forum (below) for the discussion on: "Under which circumstances do we allow reloads ?"

Done here :)
 
It might be better, not to know...
I'm not aware of any team actually voting against it.

King Indiansmoke hasn't been online since before the request was made -- hence why Merlot's been slow to answer. (Minor downside of a monarchy is we have to wait for the king to get back.) The sentiment on our forum thread was almost unanimously that yes we would allow the reload, though.

That only leaves one other team left that might have voted against.
 
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