Game Walkthrough : Hannibal - Emperor (attempt 2)

[Alhrath]

Hello.

One pointed me out that leaving only a few hours on each step to let folks here leave a comment on my game is a little short So I decided to make another walkthrough, much slower this time. I picked up a pangea map, so I can also practice diplomacy.

So the settings :

• Leader : Hannibal
• Difficulty : Emperor
• Map type : Pangea
• Map size : Standard
• Game speed : Normal
• Huts : off
• Random events : off

First remark : that's a lot of food here too. I'm sure we'll be able to get somethig from that. SIP ?

 

[lymond]

Kinda tough call with warrior ill placed, but that is almost too much food for one city. SIP is fine, but I'm always inclined to settle on PH if it doesn't ruin a city.

In this case, my thinking would be to settle 1E on the PH with possibly putting a helper city down later on the far flood plain for that clam and helping with four cottages. Settling 1E also gives a bit more land tiles which is better.

Tough call though cause SIP is certainly fine and you could settle a city to share the eastern fish and clam, but whatever you do you want to share as much of that food between at least two cities.

With fish and no visible land resources, WB start is definitely the play with BW first to possibly whip worker later (either 1 or 2 pop depending on how urgent based on tech timing) Right now, straight to Pottery after BW looks like the best play. [obviously max hammer the 1st WB worker other PH after border pop or working Forested PH if you SIP)

(playing slower is indeed much better - i thought you were playing too fast myself and honestly just lost track)

 

[FlyingSwan]

great start,SIP definately,moving to the plains hill will basically kill a cottaged flood plain.

 

[MegaLurker]

I wonder how much of this map can be taken with just Numidians on emperor. I'd settle in place because you can already see another city site that can take 2 of the seafood.

I would do the usual WB->worker whip here.

 

[Ohblivion]

Considering the difficulty; SIP seems fine to me. As megalurker said we can already see a site further east capable of sharing the food.

the OPTIMAL move as far as I can ascertain is Lymond's, but the reason why might be irrelevant on emperor:

If you SIP you kill the spot where the warrior is standing. On higher difficulties you might be in a situation where you get 'boxed in', that is to say, have not alot of room inland for future cities due to the agressive way the AI expands. If that should happen it would be nice to have that 'warrior' site later, it has access to food, has a hill, can share 4 cottages, and would make a fine Moai statues place. On top of that; moving the settler to the plains hill will speed up your production of the first workboat, to accelerate what would be otherwise quite a slow start.

edit: also to me it looks like IF you move to the hill, you might still be able to share a fish with a site to the furthest southeast currently visible; which would be dandy.


TLDNR: on emperor; fine if you SIP; but consider the move inland anyway; on immortal or above, moving on the PH is probably better.



DISCLAIMER: I permit myself to give advice here, but I'm a pretty poor player myself so please feel free just to shoot me down as I skitter on by

 

[FlyingSwan]

[QUOT

the OPTIMAL move as far as I can ascertain is Lymond's, but the reason why might be irrelevant on emperor[/QUOTE]

Its irrelevent on immortal or deity,its a bad move.No offence to lymond but I just dont see a second city on a flood plain with 1 clam will help any cause,the rest of the map has yet to be revealed,were not boxed in as far as we know,why kill a potential super capitol?

This is the kind of start I love with a FIN civ on a pangae map,I would be tempted to go wheel/pot/writ/alpha.You get a slower start without BW,but you can trade for it anyway before turn 50,and all the other techs like hunting/agriculture etc.

I never see people taking this route in NC games and I always wonder why.

 

[lymond]

Its irrelevent on immortal or deity,its a bad move.

Well, keep in mind that I outlined both viable options in my initial post, and I would not call SoPH a "bad move" here. There are times where an FP is "eaten". The trade off being that you are giving up 1F for what I see as actually MORE cottages in that city if that is what you want to make it - plus what looks like more hammers as well. SoPH could make make for good cottaging or go complete GP farm route. However, on more consideration, and as mentioned in my original post, this site I think needs as much optimal food sharing as possible, and SIP would be better for that.

 

[shakabrade]

1E kills the city 3E1S from the settler. Which is a guaranteed great city with double seafood without the need of border popping. Capital won't be able to eat all those fish and frutti di mare for a while. SIP for me.

Since this is Pangaea, WB first, and then, since there are flood palins for more food after the fish, I'd whip settlers into workboats. Depends on neighbours but you want to take the land sooner better than later. Don't remember how fast the AI is with settlers on Emperor though.

 

[Ohblivion]

Ok so this is where the nitpicking comes in; keep in mind i'm learning myself so I'm not trying to shout at people that are way better players than me; help me to understand:

Moving to the hill kills the guaranteed GREAT spot we can see from the screenshot; 3E1S from the current settler. I noticed this as well.

However, it enables a serviceable city on the warrior spot as said before; and if I'm looking at the screenshot correctly, it ALSO enables a spot 3E;3S of current settler without border pop needed. Now this might be me misreading the 'shadow' but from what I see I think it's mainland.

Now for emperor I can see why SIP is the 'dont break your had over it' decision; but since I wanna move up to deity in the future this conundrum is something I can't overlook. We know nothing of what lies beyond. We can be certain that we either get 2 GREAT spots or 2 good ones and one decent one. I'm inclined to go with the latter option; but I don't run the math or anything; it's just my approach to 'common sense'.

Thank you for the comments, I'd love a further elaboration as to where I'm wrong in this.

EDIT: disregard it; I' thought about it, the landmass i THINK is there 3E3S can work the fish regardless; so it's a chooice between a decent city and a great one instead of an 'extra' city. SIP seems to be the move then ?

EDIT2: HAhAHA played till 3000bc this should be a nice learning game !

 

[lymond]

Ohb ...at this point that spot can work the fish but no telling what that connects to at this point. Can't really make judgement on something like that at this point. Gotta go with what you know.

The idea for higher levels here is maximizing the food usage and tile sharing in the early game. There's several reasons for this. Maintenance Cost is a biggy. Tighter cities, easier the costs - and on Deity it bites you hard. Better worker management - tied to both tile sharing and proximity. And tile sharing itself whether that is food, tag team cottages, working a gold mine. The point is more stuff more fasterer.

My initial post was more my though process on paper. Putting it the options out there. On higher levels these types of decisions can really set the outcome of the game.

SoPH is ok, but SIP and the city to the E is much better for higher levels - and it's not so much the reasons that Flying Swan pointed out, although not bad thinking either. However, sometimes we get so "wow'd" but the initial view of the location that we fail to see the alternatives (and for the right reasons)

 

[Ohblivion]

Lymond:

Spoiler :

I understand that and I try to practice that on immortal. I got ahead of myself on claiming the 'free city', and edited it out before your post since I realized my mistake.
One point still stands though, the SIP 'guarantees' a great spot, but only if you can get it.
Play the save, you'll see what I mean.

 

[lymond]

I'd whip settlers into workboats.

meant to highlight shaka's always great advice. This one is such a good one and logic gets better when you think about netting fishies in time for new city. And well groomed settlers are pretty much 1t WBs

 

[Ohblivion]

That is in fact stellar advice.

 

[Alhrath]

PH = Plain Hill right ?

Seems that SIP got more votes. I'll do that later today. In terms of tech, I'll go BW -> TW -> Pottery. For prod, WB -> Settler (wipe) -> WB.

 

[Alhrath]

I played 'tll turn 8. And wow, we sure don't have plenty of space !

My WB just went out, I built it with the 3H tile. I guess I will need to pop to 2 before the settler, to be able to wipe. Maybe putting some turns in a warrior. Then I hope we got some copper. Cause I guess I'll have to rush the chinese pretty soon ...

 

[Htadus]

If you want to try something different, try using MP's to get a mega Capital by SIP. All you need is Monarchy and warrior MP's. You can have a say size 15-20 capital before the end of BC's.

 

[soundjata]

Cause I guess I'll have to rush the chinese pretty soon ...

You don't need to rush the Chinese.

You can go for GLH instead and get an excellent economy before marching on Beijing

We can already see 4 fine coastal cities:
- 1S of cows
- On the nearest silk
- 3S of cows on the island
- 3N of Capitol
(in the order I'd suggest claiming them)

Techs you need after BW are
- Sailing
- Masonry
- TW/Pottery
- Writing

The worker should chop everything around the capitol until GLH is done.
No other improvement (hill-mine=) is required.
By the way your next build is a worker!
One warrior is enough atm. Let it guard the silk area. You'll need a second warrior to help with whip unhappiness later on.

GL

 

[dutchfire]

Do you think camping next to the gold and stealing a Chinese worker is worth it?

 

[Alhrath]

- 1S of cows
- On the nearest silk
- 3S of cows on the island
- 3N of Capitol

If I settle 1S of the cow, I can not Settle 3S on the Island. Otherwise I agree (you mean nearest dye right ?).

Yeah, I don't mean doing a rush with one city anyway, but a war will probably be unavoidable in this configuration, is'nt it ? So I need to know asap where I can find strategic ressources and settle them ... If I don't have copper, I'll maybe want to know if horses are west of the gold, before my first or second settler ...

GLH seems fine to me too. Wether I have time to do it or not before the rush, I leave it to more experienced players ^^

For more long time plan, depending of the land aroung Beijing, I'm thinking I could move my palace there after the war for Bureau Cap and make a GP farm in carthage.

For the production, I was thinking about growing to pop 2. But maybe one fish would be enough for the first worker.

 

[dutchfire]

The minimal distance between cities is reduced if they are on a different continent.