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Gandhi on the Rocks

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Stories & Tales' started by Lanzelot, Mar 3, 2017.

  1. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Location:
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    Turns 121 - 130:

    Interturn 122 (110BC) Republic finishes and I go immediately into F4. First I call up Arabia, which has the most gold: they pay me Literature, Currency, Monarchy, 16gpt and 125g for Republic. Not bad... Next are the Persians. I give them Polytheism for 163g, then I gift them Currency -- oops, I forgot about Construction... So on to the Mongols, who are willing to give Construction and 67g for Currency. Back to the Persians, I gift them Construction and they enter the middle ages. Their free tech is Engineering. Hmm, the only tech I don't need... :( It would be too expensive anyway: they want Literature, Monarchy, Republic and 1080 gold for Engineering, a tech that's worth only 1280 beakers! After all that I have done for them... :sad: I will remember that... :devil:
    Finally I ring up the Hittites and give them Republic for an alliance against the Aztecs and 59g.

    Result of my little shopping tour: all known techs except Engineering, and roughly 400 gold.

    After the trades I go to F1 and revolt immediately.

    BTW: the Iroquois seem to have made some progress against the Aztecs:

    aztec_ruins.png

    Last time I looked, there was a size-4 town here... Perhaps I shouldn't have signed up the Hittites against the Aztecs after all...

    Turn 124 (70BC): we are now a Republic. I rush the barracks, and Lahore is now ready for D-Day... :cowboy:

    Lahore_70BC.png
    The Aztecs have landed a lone archer at Lahore, so I better take him out with a warrior: it wins 2/3. Unfortunately it will be missing for the start of the Armada next turn :(

    Research is set to Feudalism at 10%. Research at full speed does not yet make sense until I have a decent core.

    Interturn the barracks finish, I zoom to Lahore and upgrade the remaining 8 warriors for 480g. Right this turn they can go aboard and sail to Tenochtitlan. (This is another trick to remember, which was pointed out to me once by Spoonwood: units that are upgraded interturn, are ready to move right the next turn!)

    Thanks to the extra food from the fish and bananas, Delhi can now be used as a 2-turn worker pump (or with the extra shields collected during the last turns of Despotism it can produce a settler). Unfortunately I had to raise the lux slider to 10% temporarily. This will change, once the dyes get connected.

    Delhi_30BC.png

    Interturn of 30BC: America declares war on the Hittites and Zimbabwe finishes Artemis.

    In 10BC, Hattusas completes the Great Library. That'll do them really good as one of the tech leaders... Najran (Arabic city) cascades into the Hanging Gardens. Hmm, Arabia is right next to Zululand, perhaps I can get both wonders in one go?!

    Turn 128 (10AD): Phase 2 begins: D-Day at Tenochtitlan...
    (Aargh, I made a screenshot of that worthy occasion, but apparently forgot to save it... :wallbash:) Imagine 8 swordsmen sitting outside of Tenochtitlan. That should do the job...


    Interturn the Incas demand Republic. Take your empty threats elsewhere! Strangely enough they do not declare?! I guess my little swordsmen upgrade has made me already strong enough to discourage them...?! ;)

    30AD, the storm on Tenochtitlan: we defeat 4 spearmen and 1 archer, while losing one swordsman. That was quite lucky. I can continue the advance, while the fleet sails home to get more warriors for upgrade. In Tenochtitlan we capture the Colossus and a harbor, both very useful. Production is set to worker, to squeeze out another slave. (Unit upkeep is a bit of the problem at the moment, at 42gpt...)

    Karachi is founded on the dyes resource and starts a harbor. Once I see that the town is safe down there, I will rush the harbor to connect the dyes.

    As I am swimming in gold, I open an embassy in Mecca for 64g. I have now embassies with everyone except Aztecia and America, who declared war on me before I had the necessary cash for embassies...

    Mecca_30AD.png

    Here the overview graphs at turn 130 (50AD). F11 tells me I am no longer last place in everything. On the tech front, 5 AIs are still behind me, 4 are at tech parity, and the Persians are up Engineering (after I gifted them from last place to first place...) Feudalism is due in 44 turns. The scouting curragh is still alive and discovered a gap in the middle of "the continent". So at the moment it looks like that that, which I thought to be one large continent, may in fact be two continents with a small channel in between. In that case, Artemis (in Zimbabwe) has of course not that high a priority, and the Hanging Gardens (in Najran/Arabia) are worthless for me.

    F8_50AD.png

    tech_situation_50AD.png

    the_world_50AD.png

    India_50AD.png
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Yes, the iron was important for getting an invasion force ready at that early stage: 8 archers would have taken 160 shields to build, and might have been too weak to capture an AI capital (as we saw, Tenochtitlan was protected by 5 units, and with bad RNG-luck I could easily lose 4 archers, after which the remaining 4 would no longer be sufficient to take Tenochtitlan. A second attempt would be necessary, probably delaying the campaign by 15 turns). But the 8 swordsmen only took 80 shields to build and took Tenochtitlan easily.

    Also, since it would have taken me twice as long to produce 8 archers, the attack would have taken place ~10 turns later, and by that time Tenochtitlan may have been even better protected. (Or even worse: it might have fallen into the hands of the Iroquois... ;) Then my plan would have been spoiled. I'm not yet ready to break any deals, as I still depend on finding alliance partners for the other wars to come. A main factor of why my war against the Aztecs started so smoothly, is the fact that they have already been fighting against the Iroquois and Hittites for quite a long time.)

    The horses will become important later on: I first want to produce a decent number of horsemen, and then do a similar mass-upgrade horsemen -> war elephants, as I just did with the warriors (only on a larger scale...) This is the most effective way to use all resources, shields and gold, for the war effort and assemble a very powerful force very quickly.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
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  3. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Thanks for crediting me Lanzelot. As much as I'm enjoying your story here Lanzelot, I do have to express a concern.

    I'm not so sure that it's appropriate to win as Gandhi unless you use nukes. You know how Gandhi is with his nukes.:lol:
     
  4. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    I have to correct myself: the Hanging Gardens do not provide one content face in each town on the same continent, but in every town. So the Hanging Gardens being on a different continent, doesn't make it worthless for me... It's still a very useful wonder to get.

    I would love to fulfill that request, but unfortunately I think it will be "impossible to achieve": I think the Monarch AI will not be able to last long enough for me to discover Fission... :mischief:
    If my plan with the horsemen -> elephant upgrade works out the way I intend, the game will be over long before that... :smoke:
     
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  5. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Turns 131-140:

    Interturn: The Aztecs call and are willing to give two towns for peace. Too late my friend... America and the Iroquois sign a peace treaty.

    In 70AD my curragh discovers that it is in fact only one big continent. Ok, after phase 3 (setting up a productive core) Artemis will have top priority. Not only for the extra happiness (=additional commerce), but also because the free culture expansion of every town allows a much faster domination win.

    Curragh_70AD.png

    Our fleet just collected a settler and 6 warriors at home and will ship them to Iron Island as reinforcements for our invasion force. This leaves our home defense a little bit "stretched"... :mischief:

    India_homeland_70AD.png

    But drastic situations require drastic measures. Now that I have the Aztecs on the ropes, I have to keep going at full risk, like a dare-devel. No risk - no fun... ;)

    At Tenochtitlan the swordsmen have repulsed an archer counter-attack, but otherwise spend a second turn healing.

    In 90AD (turn 132) all swordsmen have healed. One repulses another Aztecan archer, while the other 6 advance on the next town. Unfortunately it will auto-raze, but I would have relocated it to the coast anyway.

    the_front_90AD.png

    In 110AD the swordsmen attack, destroying Teotihuacan with one loss. Again I will need to spend some time healing. The force of 6 swords should still be sufficient to take a third town, but then I need to wait for the reinforcements to arrive.

    Interturn an Aztec archer kills a vet swordsman, darn. Now there are only 5 left. Still not a single promotion...

    A turn later an Aztec archer kills another swordsman without even getting a scratch and promoting to veteran! :mad:
    Only 4 left, I need to pull back into safety.
    Hiawatha calls me and has the following to say:

    Hiawatha_130AD.png
    "We believe that its usefulness is over." -- I have to agree that Hiawatha's assessment is spot on... :D

    In 170AD (turn136) Kolhapur is founded by the horses.

    iron_island_170AD.png

    In turn 138 the Zulus and Arabia know Feudalism. Should I switch to Monotheism and try it at full speed? I could do it in 17 turns, but my gold reserves won't last that long, so more likely is 20 turns. If I can make it before anyone else, I could trade for the other two techs. The risk is high, but so is the potential gain. Hmm, another option is of course to capture the GLib in Hattusas... :D Yeah, that sounds like a better plan. So I switch to Monotheism with a lone scientist, just in case, but most probably that'll be around as well by the time I capture the GLib.

    230AD: 7 reinforcements arrive at Tzintzuntzen. The unused units of that attack will then move on to join the 4 survivers in the center and take up the advance again. Some more reinforcements will join the force at Tzintzuntzen and move eastward from there, where there is another Aztecan size-2 town.

    Tzintzuntzen_230AD.png

    Meanwhile four nations know Feudalism and two know Engineering. Unfortunately the Hittites and the Zulus are both among the ones that know Feudalism, and both have iron already connected. So neither the GLib nor Artemis will be an easy prey... :(

    Turn 140 (250AD): Tzintzuntzen is captured, but it was close: I lost 3 swordsmen, defeating 2 spearmen and 2 archers. The harbor in Tzintzuntzen remained intact, so gems are now already connected to the network, great! I can now let Delhi grow to 5.
    Two workers are captured and a galley is destroyed.

    Persia now discovered Monotheism. They are going faster than expected, after they have been backwards for so long.

    Here the usual overview:

    the_world_250AD.png

    tech_situation_250AD.png

    F8_250AD.png
    Interestingly, despite losing 3 towns (including the capital), the Aztecs seem unbroken. Perhaps they captured some American towns at the same time?!
    Persia expanded heavily, while the Mongols are down to 3 towns. (They lost lots of towns to the Incas, Mayas and Persians.)

    The current front line: I have now lots of galleys going back and forth between core, Iron Island and Aztecia. A constant stream of reinforcements is now going to arrive, so I should be able to push inland soon.
    the_front_250AD.png
     
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  6. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Turns 141-150:

    Turn 142 (270AD): After a few turns of collecting new forces, we are now ready to take up the advance again:

    advance_270AD.png

    Delhi starts producing settlers at 4.5 - 6.5, with a bit of short-rush in the middle. Our unit upkeep is up to 68gpt, so I need more towns, and also it is time to settle our future core cities in Aztec lands.

    In between the Hittites cancel our MA against the Aztecs. Yes, it's no longer necessary...

    Interturn 145: America and the Hittites sign a peace treaty. An Aztec archer attacks a swordsman of mine, which actually survives (but only with 1/4...)

    300AD: After some shipping and marching, everything is now ready for the attack on the next Aztecan town:

    Tlatelolco_300AD.png

    2 swords lost, 2 spearmen defeated, and Tlatelolco is ours. Two workers were captured.

    310AD (turn 146): Happiness is becoming a bit of a problem, I have to rush the harbor in Karachi in order to connect my dyes.
    8 swordsmen are now in place for the attack on Tlaxcala, the new Aztecan capital.

    320AD: In the attack on Tlaxcala, 3 spearmen are defeated at the cost of 3 swordsmen. Considering that this is a hill town, that's not bad. And finally my first elite promotion! Again two workers are captured.

    Turn 148: the first settler fo the new core arrives at its designation:

    first_settler_330AD.png

    There is lots of good land here: a cow, 4 wheat, rivers, some tile improvements already in place. The towns are going to grow quickly.

    340AD (turn 149): the next town is taken without losses. Interturn the Hittites must have burned down two Aztecan towns -- what a waste! :( The Aztecs are now down to 4 towns. They are willing to give two towns for peace, but not three. So I'll take one more town by force, then make peace and start moving my swordsmen towards Hattusas. I still am at war with America, but they are so weak, they can wait till later...

    Turn 150: the next settler arrives in the New World. I think I will rather place the new palace a bit more inland at the red cross. On a large map, the corruption in the second ring won't be too much, so the Colossus in Tenotichtlan will still pay off, and I will be able to make better use of the many wheat tiles.

    the_front_350AD.png

    The swordsmen will take one more Aztecan town as indicated, then make peace for as many towns as they are willing to give, and then move southwards to capture the GLib in Hattusas. That has highest priority, as I am worried that two nations might get Education, if I wait too long. Nothing would be worse than getting Artemis expired!

    Our brave curragh has finally completed its way around the world:

    the_world_350AD.png

    And finally my campaign against the Aztecs becomes visible in the power graph...

    F8_350AD.png
     

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    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
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  7. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Turns 151-160:

    At the beginning of turn 151, Abu Bakr demands 31 gold. I tell him to take his empty threats elsewhere, and they back out...

    As my gold is running low, I switch from producing&upgrading warriors to producing archers. The horses on Iron Island are by now connected, so as soon as it is affordable, I will rush the harbor there and then produce horsemen and collect gold for the big elephant upgrade...

    Hyderabad is founded. For the next two turns my swordsmen march towards that Aztecan town in the fog. It turns out to be Texcoco, and it is attacked in turn 153 (380AD).

    Texcoco_380AD.png

    Unfortunately it is auto-raised, but now the Aztecs are willing to give me all remaining towns (2) in the peace treaty. In 380AD "New India" now looks as follows:

    New_India_380AD.png

    7 ruins! :eek: The Iroquois and Hittites must have raged like Berserks in Aztecia...

    In Old India, the workers have now improved almost enough tiles and are shipped by and by to the new world.
    (The Colossei are place holders for horsemen: the harbor in Iron Island will finish interturn.)

    India_380AD.png

    Interturn the Hittites declare war on the Arabs. Excellent... I will need a couple of turns to reorganize my swordsmen force and then march south to Hattusas to study in the Great Library there...

    Turn 157 (420AD): Bengal, our future capital, is founded:

    Bengal_420AD.png

    There is enough space for two nice rings. First priority is to settle the red spots and complete the first ring. Then Gandhi can think about moving into his new Palace...

    In 430AD our swordsmen have reached the Hittite border. As I want to keep my reputation intact, I declare war and then march in. For 31 gold the Iroquois are willing to fight against the Hittites, too. Very good. With three hot wars, hopefully the Hittites now have more to deal with than they can handle...

    Hittites_430AD.png

    F4_430AD.png

    Turn 159 (440AD): Tyrana is captured at no losses, two spears and an archer were defeated. The first Hittite Medieval Infantry are now showing up. Good that my first horsemen are also arriving at the front, so I can kill these beasts from a distance, before they can attack...

    Interturn two more Hittite MI attack a swordsman on a hill, but both die. :whew:That was close. The Persians start Leonardo's Workshop. So Invention is already known. Perhaps even Theology. It's high time to capture the GLib, before two have Education and Artemis expires!!

    450AD: In New India the busy clonking of axes, showels and pickaxes can be heard day and night. People work overtime to finally build an empire that will stand the test of time...!

    New_India_450AD.png

    And in F8 we are catching up:

    F8_450AD.png
     
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  8. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Turns 161-170:

    My swordsmen are slowly marching towards Hattusas. As Hubishna is on a hill and protected by a pikeman, I decide to bypass it. It'll only cost heavy casualties and delay the capture of the GLib.

    Hubishna_480AD.png

    Interturn 162 two more Hittite MIs attack swordsmen on a mountain: one wins, one loses. The survivor is down to 1/4 and then killed in our counterattack. So far the war went quite well, despite the fact that the Hittites already have access to pikemen and MI: shield-wise they had higher losses.

    500AD (turn 165): The rampaging Mayan forces have destroyed the Mongols. Iroquois and America sign a peace treaty, and the Inca start the Sistine Chapel. So Theology is now known.

    520AD: I didn't pay attention, and an American archer appeared next to an undefended town. So I' forced to make peace for 10g.

    530AD: Our stack of 14 (swords and a few archers) units reaches Hattusas. Lets hope that is enough...
    Dacca is founded near the dears at second ring distance from Bengal.

    Hattusas_530AD.png

    Turn 169 (540AD): after a fierce battle we take Hattusas! 4 swordsmen lost, 4 pikemen killed.
    Interturn we learn Monotheism, Feudalism, Engineering, Theology and Invention.

    550AD: I set research to 40%, Chivalry due in 18 turns.

    Now it's a bit of a gamble: how long can I keep Hattusas? No one has Eduction so far, but there is a risk, that two of the AI get it in the same turn. The best plan would be to give Hattusas back to the Hittites in the peace deal, so in case that Elephants will not suffice for conquering the world, I can take the GLib a second time and get another tech-boost towards Military Tradition?! But at the moment I still have 10 turns left on my military alliance with the Iroquois against the Hittites, so making peace now would break that deal. Ah! I can give Hattusas to the Iroquois... And then keep the war against the Hittites on a slow burner while concentrating on the next important wonder: Artemis in Zimbabwe! (After I have upgrade my swords to MI...)
    Or even better: I give Hattusas to the Zulus. They are already at tech parity, while the Iroquois are still lacking three techs. No need to boost them as well...

    So I sign a RoP with Lincoln for faster access to the east part of the continent and then pull out of Hittitia.

    The known world in 550AD:

    The_world_55AD.png

    We are among the tech leaders...

    F6_550AD.png

    And are finally a power to be reckoned with:

    F8_550AD.png

    Our future core is almost complete. I guess I will move enough troops into Bengal now and then disband Delhi for the palace jump.

    New_India_550AD.png
     

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  9. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Turns 171-180:

    The next few turns are spent retreating my troops from Hattusas and settling more towns are second-ring distance from Bengal.
    In 570AD I sign a RoP with Arabia, as I need to pass through Arabian lands on my way to Zimbabwe.

    Because of war weariness, I have to increase lux spending from 10% to 30%?! Must be, because my stack is still within Hittite borders?! Unfortunately I have still 6 turns left on my MA with the Iroquois, so I'll have to suffer through these 6 turns.

    580AD (turn 173): Bengal is now first rank with respect to palace jump target city. I can squeeze 3 more settlers out of Delhi in the next 5 turns, and that way settler-disband it.

    palace_jump_580AD.png
    (This is another nice feature of CivAssist: it implements the Palace Jump formula, so one does not need to calculate all this in the head... :))

    590AD: the Arabs, Zulus, Maya and Inca all know Chivalry. The Arabs start building the Knight's Templar. Unfortunately I have nothing to trade, but the price of Chivalry drops so much, that my remaining time goes from 13 to 8 turns. This is a bit too soon, as I don't want to trigger my Golden Age, before my new core is complete, so I drop the science rate a bit to 20%, Chivalry now due in 15 turns, but I can increase science again, as soon as I feel ready. War weariness has ceased, as my stack is now outside Hittite borders and there hasn't been any fighting for a number of turns, so I can lower lux spending to 20% as well.

    I sell the granary in Delhi, as it is no longer be needed.

    610AD: Arabia signs a peace treaty with the Hittites.

    Turn 178 (630AD): Gandhi is finally ready to move into his nice new home:

    Delhi_630AD.png

    The new home is not yet completely finished, but much better than the old one... and soon a few workers can be joined to key cities to bring them up to size 12.

    New_India_630AD.png

    On the far lower right-hand corner, you can see a stack of 17 horsemen, ready to begin its journey to Zimbabwe.
    The first target on the way to Zimbabwe is not connected to their iron, so I decided to take it, even before my MI and Longbows are upgraded.

    Ngome_630AD.png

    Current income before the jump: 313 gold per turn and 75 shields per turn:

    F11_630AD.png


    The MA with the Iroquois has run out after 20 turns, so I cancel it and then make peace with the Hittites.
    Interturn the domestic advisor ask use, whether we really want to move, and I say "Yes!"...
    advisor_640AD.png

    640AD: Our income increased from 313 gpt to 322 gpt, and the production from 75 spt to 79 spt. Not much yet, but give it a few more turns, until our new home has grown to size 12...

    F11_640AD.png

    New Delhi is founded in place of the old one.

    The new home:

    New_India_640AD.png

    The marketplace in Bengal will finish interturn, when Bengal grows. Then I only need a few barracks and I can start producing horses for the next few turns till Chivalry.
     
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  10. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    650AD (turn 180): After two worker joins, Bengal is now size 9 and can make 10spt.

    Bengal_650AD.png

    I need more luxuries, so once my peace deal with America expires, I will conquer it: they have spices and furs, and they are really close by...

    more_resources_650AD.png

    Thanks to the two worker joins and to the fact that a few more towns have grown, the income jumped up to 367 (from 322 last turn), and production to 87 (from 79).

    My stack of doom is going to reach Ngome in 5 turns:

    Ngome_650AD.png

    The currently known world:

    the_world_650AD.png

    And the power graph:

    F8_650AD.png

    PS: the Incas and the Persians know Education this turn... :whew: So good that I gifted Hattusas away when it was still time... And four nations now know Gunpowder! :eek: Time to finally start rolling, before my elephants are out-dated! Hope I won't have to go the full way to Cavalry...
     

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    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
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  11. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Turns 181-190:

    I make peace with the Hittites, which I said I had done at the end of the last turn set, but obviously had forgotten...
    The next few turns are spent improving the core and marching my stack towards the Zulu border.
    In particular I decide to build two granaries in Ganges and Pune, in order to churn out more workers and speed up the development of the new core. It's still going much too slow, considering that Gunpowder is already around...

    In turn 184 (690AD) Chivalry would finish, but it's still a bit early for me, so I turn science off temporarily.
    My stack's advance to Ngome was blocked twice by f***ing Arab forces, so I'm still not there.

    700AD: interturn I upgrade 10 MIs/Longbows, which are now set in motion towards America. Meanwhile my horsemen stack has reached the Zulu border, so I declare and march in.

    Turn 186: the stack finally reaches Ngome, and of course they have muskets by now!

    Ngome_710AD.png

    In 720AD Bengal is finally ready for 2-turn-horses... We'll let this run for a couple of turns and then finish Chivalry.

    Bengal_720AD.png

    Arabia is willing to join forces against the Zulus for 223 gold. I guess that's worth it!

    Arabia_720AD.png

    Interturn they already kill a musket in Ngome! Great. Another one is still showing on top, but I decide to attack nevertheless with my horsemen.
    5 horsemen and an eSword die, many more horses retreat, but finally the two remaining muskets in Ngome are defeated and Ngome is ours. Stroke of luck: we capture an intact barracks! So I decide to finish Chivalry now and do an upgrade of the remaining horsemen, before pressing forward.

    Tugela (across New Delhi) is captured without losses by a small landing party.

    750AD (turn 190): the RoP with America has finally expired, so I cancel it and then declare war.

    My income has now reached 455 gpt and my production 103 spt (compared to 367/87 from 650AD).

    F11_750.png
     
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  12. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Turns 191-200:
    Interturn the Mayas declare war on us and kill the last eSword in Ngome! :mad: Then Chivalry finishes and I upgrade 12 of the 14 horses in Ngome. They'll pay dearly for this...

    760AD: Atlanta is captured at no losses. Next turn the spices will be connected.

    atlanta_760AD.png

    Before I can advance to Isandhlwana, I have to clean up the traitors in my back:

    isandhlwana_760AD.png

    6 assorted Mayan units are trampled down by my elephants, no losses on our side. Unfortunately my Golden Age now starts, a little bit too early, but I had no choice.

    Interturn Cuzco completes Sun Tzu's Art of War. Too far away to be of significance. Najran (Arabia) finishes the Knights Templar. Hmm, that's interesting... I wanted to go there anyway for the Hanging Gardens... :mischief:

    Turn 192 (770AD): the elephants capture Lazapa at no losses, but 3 of them actually get red-lined 1/5 (two of them retreated), before the two reg pikes and one spearman (on grassland!) are finally defeated. The four stray units of the Mayas there are also defeated at no losses, but two elephants retreat 1/4 from two Longbows (2/3) on grassland! :eek: I guess I'll need Cavalry sooner or later...

    Lazapa_770AD.png

    At Washington I lose three Longbows against reg spears on grassland! Darn, and because of that I fail to take it by a single red-lined spear...!

    washington_770AD.png

    BTW: thanks to the GA, I'm now up to 683gpt and 196spt...

    F11_770AD.png

    780AD: arrgh: Washington is now protected by a pike, that got produced interturn!!

    The Mayas send 6 more units, mostly Longbows, to Ngome. They really mean it. Well, leader fodder..., but it delays my advance to the Artemis Temple considerably.
    All 6 are mown down.

    790AD: War weariness sets in, and the furs at Washington are still not connected, so I need to increase lux tax to 10%.

    800AD: Washington remains tough, I lose my first ever War Elephant in the assault. But when my elite sword finally takes Washington against a 1/3 pike, a great leader appears: Chandragupta. We form immediately an Elephant Army!

    More Maya units arrive at Ngome:

    Ngome_800AD.png

    They really nail me down there. There must be Uranium or something... :confused:

    Interturn the Incas start the Copernicus Observatory. Tech pace is astonishingly quick for a Monarch game...

    810AD (turn 196): Chandragupta wins its first two victories, capturing San Francisco. I switch Bengal to the Heroic Epic. (Had already been collecting a few shields there.)

    frisco_810AD.png

    The last remaining horsemen have now finally been upgraded, and also the core has now taken up the elephant production en gross. The gold is used for short-rushes, where ever necessary. The Elephant has one big disadvantage compared to the ordinary Knight: it does not require iron... So with normal Knights I could use the "disconnect/connect strategy" for producing a large number of Knights:
    1. pillage my iron
    2. set all cities to produce horsemen
    3. let 6 workers restore the road on the iron hill
    4. when the horsemen complete, immediately upgrade them to knights
    5. go back to step 1...

    However, with Elephants this approach is not possible, so I need to do something else, if I want to use both, my shields and my gold, for producing a huge army. Rushing is not as effective as upgrading, but with "shortrushing" the production can also be sped up as follows: an Elephant costs 70 shields, which is not divisible by 15 nor by 20. So a lot of shields would go waste, if I would let them finish the "normal way". A city with 15spt would take 5 turns and 5 x 15 = 75 shields to complete an Elephant, and a 20spt city would need 4 turns and 4 x 20 = 80 shields. By shortrushing, this can be sped up: in cities that produce 15spt, I wait until 30 shields are in the box, then rush a Longbow (10s for 40 gold), then switch back to Elephant, and the remaining 30 shields are completed by normal means. 2 x 15 + 10 rushed + 2 x 15 = 70. No shields wasted and the Elephant is ready 1 turn faster! And in cities with 20spt, one can rush a settler after the first turn and then let the remaining 40 shields be produced in turns 2 and 3: 20 + 10 rushed + 2 x 20 = 70. Again no waste and the Knight takes only 3 turns instead of 4!
    Bengal will soon reach 30spt and can then build 2-turn Elephants: 30s in the first turn, then 10 extra shields rushed into the box via Longbow, then 30s in the second turn totals 70s.

    Bengal_810AD.png

    Whenever I have some gold to spare, I will put it into Gunpowder. It might be useful to see, where my enemy's saltpeter is, so I can disconnect it at the beginning of a campaign. And perhaps I will need Cavalry after all, then I'm already one step closer.
     
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  13. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    820AD: New York is captured at no losses.

    Another 7 Mayan Longbows arrive at Ngome!! The Elephants are still busy cleaning up the 11 units from last turn, and all except for one or two, lose 3 or more hitpoints in the process! But at least no losses.

    830AD: During the "cleanup" of the 7 Longbows, my second MGL appears: Shivaji! It immediately forms the next Elephant Army.

    Shivaji_830AD.png

    Interturn Mecca completes Leonardo's Workshop and Tyre (Persia) cascades into Copernicus Observatory.

    840AD (turn 199): a settler from Washington connects the furs, and I can finally reduce lux tax back to 0%.

    New_Kolhapur_840AD.png

    A Zulu Impi unexpectedly appears at Tyrana, so I need to gift it to Arabia... But I send two Elephants down there, the Impi will capture it from Arabia interturn, and my Elephants can recapture in two turns. Not much harm done, except that Arabia and the Zulus both get their war weariness increased...

    Tyrana_840AD.png

    Turn 200 (850AD): Gunpowder is finished, and I start a min run on Chemistry. 4 nations already know it, so I hope I can press it out of someone in a peace treaty, perhaps out of the Zulus or Mayas. Quite handy: Arabia has neither iron nor gunpowder! So when the time comes, Leonardo, Hanging Gardens and Knight Templar will be easy prey...

    The Zulus got an MGL!

    Isandhlwana_850AD.png

    Chandragupta alone captures Miami and 4 workers.
    And Shivaji is now on his way into Zululand to find and pillage their saltpeter. New Elephants from the core have arrived at Ngome, making the total there now 20, that should be enough for whatever the Mayas and Zulus keep throwing at Ngome. I hope that that stream of units will soon slow down, and then these 20 units can follow Shivaji and finally take up the offensive again.

    Our core is quickly approaching a state that really deserves the name "core":

    New_India_850AD.png
    Luxury rate had to be upped to 10%, as two cities reached size 12. I need one more lux resource or finally Artemis.

    The Forbidden Palace has been started in the second ring. Not sure, whether it'll be worth it in this game, but I have a feeling, that this will still take a while...

    Production and commerce: 230 spt and 811 gpt
    F11_850AD.png

    Not much progress in charting the world, but as long as the Elephants know, where they have to go, it's ok... After retaking Tyrana, one of the Elephants can scout the Iroquois a bit to check for iron and saltpeter.

    the_world_850AD.png
     

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  14. tjs282

    tjs282 Fizz Eater

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    Want a minor Spoiler?
    Spoiler :
    Ngome is on a chokepoint -- although it doesn't clearly show on the last minimap that you posted (EDIT I don't mean the one in Post #33, I meant the one before that), that isthmus is the only overland route from the Maya to your new core.
    It's a large Pangaea map with 11 Civs to start; in my game, the tech-race has been strongly driven by Inter-AI trading. And another spoiler?
    Spoiler My game :
    I got off to a much slower start than you have: while I was still faffing about developing my home island, after trading for techs and obtaining a massive tech-lead and Treasury (they had over 3000 gold for much of the Middle Age), the Maya got busy slaughtering their neighbours, and turned into the runaway AI on the mainland.

    We're now all the way to the Modern Age (it's 1993): the Inca, Persians, Arabs, Hittities and Zulus are dead, the Mongols are down to 1 Tundra-island town (my handiwork), and so were the Iroquois, until I liberated their mainland towns from Monty, and handed them back to Hiawatha (because I hadn't got the troops to both hold the towns and continue advancing). I now hold most of Mongolia and former Persia (conquered by Temujin), and have finally started making inroads into Azteca (unwittingly assisted by Mayan Bombers -- cheers, Smokey!) after my initial 3-4 invasion attempts failed.

    I am still only joint-second in tech with the Aztecs (but soon to be sole second :evil: ), and will finish off the Americans as well (after sealing them off from the Mayans at/near the above chokepoint), but right now I'm still wondering if I can make it into Space before Smoke does... I don't really want to DOW him, but I might have to, just to slow him down.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  15. Toxicman007

    Toxicman007 Custom User Title

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    Looking good!
    A question from a noob; Why does your core have so many overlapping city-squares? Isn't that technically less optimal than if you could use more squares per city, especially after hospitals and going over 12 population?
     
  16. tjs282

    tjs282 Fizz Eater

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    I can answer this one:

    You don't get Hospitals until at least 2 techs into the Industrial era -- and then only if you beeline to Sanitation, which is a non-required tech, and much lower priority than e.g. Steam (=Rails), Replaceable Parts (=doubled Worker-speed), and Industrialistion (Factories!). (Also SciMethod = ToE = 2 free techs)

    So in terms of maximising tile-usage over the whole game, it's actually much more optimal in the early- to mid-game to plant your cities at distance 3.5-4.5 (Cx(x)xC), on the assumption that they will be stuck at Pop12 for much of this most important phase. This way, you get to exploit the maximum number of non-corrupted tiles around your capital for the longest time, and you don't need to build (and pay maintenance for) as many Courthouses (maybe needed from the 3rd-ring outwards). This is especially true when you're aiming for a Medieval Dom/Conq vic, before even Cavalry becomes available (as Lanzelot is doing here).

    Conversely, if you plant towns 'optimally' at distance 5-5.5 (Cxx(x)xC) on the expectation of eventually getting them all to Pop20+, half your territory will end up not getting used for most of the game, and your outlying 'core' towns will waste a lot of the shields + commerce that they could have harvested, before you get Courthouses built in all of them (will probably be needed from the 2nd ring outwards).

    If the game does go as far as the late Industrial/Modern era, then sure, 'non-essential' in-between cities with lots of BFC-overlap (the 'C's in the CxxCxxC city layout) could be shrunk down/disbanded by Settler/Worker-builds, to make more space for their neighbours to grow into Metros -- but that might well take more time than needed to trigger a late-game victory-condition, especially on Standard-size maps (and smaller). So aiming for Pop12 in all core-cities can actually be good for long games too (although you can go ahead and build Hospitals in coastal cities to get them to Pop13-15 if you have nothing better to do with them!).

    Another consideration, particularly important for warmongering Republics like Lanzelot's India: two Pop12 Cities are much easier (and cheaper!) to keep happy using Markets+Luxes and a little LUX%-spending, than one Pop24 Metro (which may also need a Temple, Cathedral and/or Colosseum to prevent riots), and two Cities also allow more maintenance-free units per head of population than one Metro (2*3 vs. 1*4).
     
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  17. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    tjs282 already answered this much better than I would have been able to do... :D So, yes: my plan is to have this game won, long before anybody enters the Industrial Age, and for this I had to make sure that I can work all the "uncorrupted tiles" (= tiles close to the palace) with pop 12 cities. As a matter of fact: I have even played "long games" (UN or Space victory), where I skipped Hospitals and stayed with size 12 cities up to the end. I don't see any advantage in having size 20+ metropolises over having size 12 cities: the total amount of worked tiles (and the shields and gold from these tiles) remains the same. It is true, that you only need half the number of marketplace, libraries and universities, if you utilize the land with size 24 metros compared to using it with size 12 cities, but on the other hand, if you use size 24 metros, you will need hospitals and cathedrals, which you can skip when relying on size 12 cities... So in the end it probably evens out...

    Also take into account, that by the time Hospitals become available, your Universities should already all be finished, so no need to scrap half of them and then build fresh Hospitals and Cathedrals in their place...

    And another factor is: Sanitation is an optional tech! In most situations you can launch your space ship or hold the UN election 4 turns earlier, if you skip researching it! (And if you wait for the AI to research Sanitation, while you do the useful things, it will usually come too late anyway...)
     
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  18. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    I want to add to the above. Wider spacing also has the drawback that it becomes more difficult to have all the tiles within your culture worked, even once you have a metro.

    Also, with respect to happiness if you have hospitals or large cities, other than using temples/cathedrals you might put in a courthouse and/or a police station and/or a commercial dock and use the luxury slider. Especially if playing a histographic game, because then you'll probably use the luxury slider anyway. You can also use entertainers, especially if your citizens can't work anymore tiles.
     
  19. Toxicman007

    Toxicman007 Custom User Title

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    Thanks guys. Makes a lot more sense now.
     
  20. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    They are the strongest AI in my game as well. Looks like they took the major part of Mongolia, and it's no surprise: usually the AI can handle agricultural civs quite ok. And combine AGRI with the Pyramids, and you have the ingredients for a runaway AI... Actually, when they dowed me, I was thinking for a while as to whether I should sign up the Persians and the Incas against them. Perhaps I should have done it. Let them beat up each other and then I can come later and collect the shambles... But I decided against it, because I'm still dreaming about getting to Cavs via pointy stick research. And for this I need to be free to make peace whenever opportune, without my hands being tied down by an MA. The Zulus are "almost" ready to give me Chemistry for peace now, and I'm pretty sure the Mayas will soon have Metallurgy.

    On what grounds did you decide where to make the first invasion? After I had explored most of the nearby shorelines and established embassies everywhere, I decided that the Aztecs had the best land by far. On top of that they were quite close, and when they finished the Colossus for me (a very useful wonder for the rest of the game), my decision was made...
    Mongolia on the other hand, with all those tundra tiles, did not appear too appetizing to me, and Persia was too far away (and also not as good as Aztecia).
     

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