Leha
ooseepoosee
boarder said:
You called this accident massacre and israeli terrorism. You continue to state that even after I presented evidences it is not IDF fault. So it looks like it is not me who is "blinded".
Gaza Beach Shelling
- Thread starter Civrules
- Start date
You called this accident massacre and israeli terrorism. You continue to state that even after I presented evidences it is not IDF fault. So it looks like it is not me who is "blinded".
RedWolf
Deity
Leha said:Investigation found, that family was killed by mine which was planted by Hamas to prevent unloading of israeli troops to the beach. Official statement will be published today and I of course will post it here. It prove shards taken from wounded boy in israeli hospital.
For now, this will suffice http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3261513,00.html
Source is in english
Every rational person can understand from that, it wasn't IDF.
EDIT: here it is: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150035838991&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
One article says the wounded were "cleansed" of shrapnel BEFORE arriving in the Israeli hospital and the other article says that shrapnel found in the wounded proved to not have been manufactured in Israel.
And seriously - even if this incident turns out to not have been caused by Israel - it's just one of many. Your country has a habit of "fighting terrorism" and not really caring who gets caught in the process:
"GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — An Israeli air strike aimed at Palestinians militants killed 10 people Tuesday, eight of them civilians, including two children and three medical workers. Thirty-two others were wounded, three of them seriously."
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&pubid=968163964505&cid=1150192147578&col=968705899037&call_page=TS_News&call_pageid=968332188492&call_pagepath=News/News
You will never stop terrorism like this - you're simply creating more - exponentially. Every innocent person you vaporize "by accident" is connected to dozens of other people... and these incidents cause them to hate you as well. I genuinely don't believe that the IDF kills Palestinians on purpose... but gross negligence STILL has the same result.
bathsheba666
Fast 'n Bulbous
blackheart
unenlightened
"The security establishment is having difficulties getting to the bottom of the incident, as the Palestinian family members wounded in the blast and hospitalized in Israel arrived only after receiving initial treatment on the Palestinian side. Doctors at Ichilov Hospital and Soroka Medical Center were surprised to find the wounded cleansed of any shrapnel, which complicates investigations.Leha said:
Leha said:
"According to the findings, expected to be formally released on Tuesday, shrapnel taken from two wounded Palestinians who were evacuated to Israeli hospitals showed that the explosives were not made in Israel, IDF officials said."
So which source are we to believe?
And is there anything from a neutral news sources at all?
Leha said:
If you're insinuating there's some sort of anti-semitism in western media, there isn't. It's just that people only care about the news when something tragic and bloody happens.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misinf...ber_11,_2001_attacks#Israel_advance_knowledge
As it said, no specifics so it is kind of hard to pinpoint anything...
Leha
ooseepoosee
RedWolf said:
There were people hospitalised in the Gaza AND Israeli hospitals. Good enough explanation?
If you find facts in final investigation suspicious, then maybe you can bring facts proving it was Israeli shell?
Read my previous posts, see videos. Only very naive man won't see the whole thing was staged. I.e. Pallywood strikes again. And real problem is, that BBC, Reuters and AP, (media outlets people called here "Best And Unbiased" media in the world), put this bull in large bloody letters on front pages, and don't even bother to take it back. But it's OK, I already see less and less people believe Palestinian lies. Their propaganda inflicted Israel very serious damage for last years. But lie eventually is seen, and they will get less and less credibility.
I don't agree with you again. False story of Muhammad Al-Durrah launched second intifada, and result was hundreds of innocent Israeli and Palestinians killed.
Gaza beach accident, where Hamas killed it's own citisens, caused more then 100 (!) projectiles launched into Israeli cities over three days.
This is very good article. I love BBC and AP!!!!!Long live the most unbiased press in the world!!
Now, why don't they mention palestinian terrorist bastards sent about 300 rockets into Sderot city for last week??? I wonder.
Why don't they wonder what are children doing in the truck full of "Grad" missiles???? I wonder.
Why don't they ask themselves "why peacefull civilians are engaged in unloading of Katiyshas from that van"??? I wonder. (scroll down and see video) http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3262503,00.html
Leha
ooseepoosee
blackheart said:
Are you aware that there were wounded hospitalised in the palestinian and Israeli hospitals? It is simple, really. Just open your mind
Indeed. Why goddamn Reuters is silent??? I want rebuttal!! In the front page.
Just see those videos. Every imbecile will see it is staged. Are AP, BBC and other geniuses complete idiots???
Wait, wait. Where did you get anti-semitism??? WHEN did I say anti-semitism?
I mentioned biased portraying of Israel. Al-Durra case proved to be false. Can you bring me example of ANY of those newspapers (who screemed of killing of "poor child")posting apology in front page in very large letters?
Excuse me. Do you want us to make ALL the dirty job for you, guys? You got very valuable info, start working on it.
RedWolf
Deity
Leha said:
No - you're missing the point.
As I tried to point out originally - your "side" makes two seperate claims in order to try to validate their beleif. These two claims are mutually exclusive:
1) By the time the wounded got to the israeli hospital the wounded were "cleansed" of shrapnel... thereby indicating some kind of nefarious activity on the part of the Palestinians (ie: a cover up)
2) The shrapnel taken from the wounded in the israeli hospital was examined and it was proven that it did not come from an IDF shell.
Which was it? Either there was shrapnel in the wounded or there was NOT shrapnel. They can't both be true.
RedWolf
Deity
Leha said:
I don't think you understand... We KNOW about the terrorism. I have no doubt it happens, and you and your people have my deepest sympathies. Really.
However I don't feel that it justifies the deaths of innocent civilians by heavy handed military actions. Not only is it immoral and wrong but it's impractical.
If you want a solution to your problem killing more children is NOT making anybody like you. The only way you'll make any progress at this rate is to murder every last Palestinian.
Regarding the "children in the van". Use your head and think about this. The article claimed that 10 people were killed and injured 33 others. I somehow doubt 43 people were all in the van carrying missles. Unless it's one huge jesus van. More then likely your gunships or aircraft fired a missle into a crowded street without any disregard for the people nearby and killed everything within 250 feet.
You wouldn't tolerate that approach to stopping crime on your own streets (if the police or IDF were blowing away Israeli's) but for some reason innocent Palestinians have to pay in blood for the crimes of a few.
Leha
ooseepoosee
RedWolf said:
No, you are missing the point.
There were wounded who were delivered directly to israeli hospitals.
And there were wounded who were first taken care of in Gaza and then delivered to israeli hospitals.
No contradiction here.
Leha
ooseepoosee
RedWolf said:
I will gladly hear ANY solution not involving ANY deaths to situation, where our state is dealind with entity, ruled by terrorist groups, denying our right to exist, making its goal to destroy us, bombing our schools with missiles launched from populated areas, and assisted by children and civilians.
Let me hear it. I'm opened to such solutions. Really.
I was talking about 2 children killed. I wasn't talking about 43 people being in the van. Did you see video I linked?
Palestinians should prevent jihadists from launching missiles and mortar shells from their yards. Otherwise we have no other solution but kill terrorists along with palestinians helping them!
RedWolf
Deity
Leha said:
How does that one sit with you? Not well I'd suspect. (And not well with me either I'll add) Sounds a little like terrorism actually - the same type of collective punishment that you're advocating against Palestinians.
Leha
ooseepoosee
RedWolf said:
You think by substituting words you make sides to switch places? Didn't you forget something? You should've added how Israel shells palestinian cities, teaches it's children to hate arabs in schools and universities, has government who's goal is to destroy palestinians completely and not create two states. Come on, if you are trying to make this famous "mirror" trick stop cherry-picking and make it "full mirror".
EDIT: I'm still waiting for your solution how Israel should deal with Qasam launchers in Gaza.
RedWolf
Deity
Leha said:
Interestingly although you deny the above statement I can almost feel the hatred of them dripping off the page in your posts.
You have to pretty much hate a group of people (all of them) to honestly believe that ALL of them (even children) are guilty (and thus deserve death) due to the actions of a few.
And don't cry to me about them "hating you". You launched missles into their cities without caring who you kill. If you did it to Canadians THEY would hate you as well. It's universal really.
You asked me above for an alternate solution to your situation - I admit I don't have one - that is of course the fundamental problem of occupation isn't it? There are no easy answers.
At the same time though you can't point at me and say "But you have no better solution" because YOU also don't have a solution (at least not one that seems to be working anyway). All you're doing is breeding hatred ensuring that the cycle will never end. The Palestinians certainly aren't blameless here - and if there was a Palestinian on CFC advocating the killing of Israeli civilians due to their "guilt" I'd be knee-deep in that debate as well (against the Palestinian poster).
civ2
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2004
- Messages
- 1,650
RedWolf
"Against them" imply against Israelis since it's "a Palestinian" - singular.
The biggest Israel's problem is that basically ANY Palestinian (old enough to walk) can turn explosive-suicidal.
Would it be like a "real" war - then the elimination of the "soldiers" would solve the entire problem.
Unfortunatelly most Palestinians were told FROM SCHOOL YEARS to hate Israel - and therefore ANY of them can turn insane.
"Against them" imply against Israelis since it's "a Palestinian" - singular.
The biggest Israel's problem is that basically ANY Palestinian (old enough to walk) can turn explosive-suicidal.
Would it be like a "real" war - then the elimination of the "soldiers" would solve the entire problem.
Unfortunatelly most Palestinians were told FROM SCHOOL YEARS to hate Israel - and therefore ANY of them can turn insane.
RedWolf
Deity
civ2 said:
Thanks - correction made - it could have seriously skewed my point.
So what is the solution? Complete genocide of the Palestinian people? Since any one of them could turn insane?
You have to admit though that indiscriminitely killing civilians exponentially increases your chances of someone "turning insane".
And is a Palestinian that blows himself up killing innocent civilians any more or less insane then an IDF soldier that launches a missle into a busy Palestinian street without caring about the results?
Phyr_Negator
Anti-tolerast
Shame on them! They are wasting citizen's money! They could build and launch far more rockers on jews if they manage to reduce stealing and corruption in their ranks.
Leha
ooseepoosee
RedWolf said:
I don't hate palestinians. As a matter of fact one of them is one of best friends of my family. But I must admit it get's my nerves when someone cynically start this old good bull about how "you reap what you saw". In the other part of your post, which I will address later, you say that you have no solution. Then let me shortly remind you of the situation in Gaza. If you remember lately Israel withdrew all its troops and settlers from Gaza strip. From the very day of withdrawal there is unstopping rain of projectile missiles hitting Sderot city and villages close to Gaza. Children of Sderot miss half of their classes because they should take shelter during those attacks. Israeli AIF has the only measure to fight terrorists: spot launching cells and destroy them, trying to cause as little civilian deaths as possible. (Any other coutry would shell the hell out of Gaza I'm sure, see UK example). Plaestinians which don't want to be hit by AIF missile SHOULD DISTANCE THEMSELVES FROM TERRORISTS AND NOT FLOCK TO THEM. DID YOU SEE VIDEO I REFERRED TO???????????
Israel realises that to stop violence, peacefull solution is best. BUT there's noone to talk of peace on palestinian side!
So, please, stop this nonsence about "collective punishment" and look at the situation as it is.
Oh, now you are talking business. You don't have solution? Excellent. So I'll tell you this: for now, primary goal of Israeli government is to defend it's citisens from hostile attacks as I'm sure is goal of Canadian and any other government. While there is no entity in Gaza that can be responsible for negotiations with israeli side and which is capable to stop brutal and humanless attacks on Israeli cities, the only way to stop it- military way. It may be not very effective and causing sad but inevitable civilian deaths, but it is the only way for now, which is accepted even by Israeli left.
