GEM Stage 1: Terrain

[Seek]

I don't know why I didn't think of that, it makes more sense. Thanks! I now moved copper to the mint.

That's too bad, I thought the copper bonus on the Forge was a good way to make the building more valuable (I never built it even with the bonus on Coal) because Copper often appears in clusters, and the Mint is already quite a good building.

 

[Stalker0]

That's too bad, I thought the copper bonus on the Forge was a good way to make the building more valuable (I never built it even with the bonus on Coal) because Copper often appears in clusters, and the Mint is already quite a good building.

There's some truth here, the forge is one of my neglected buildings as well.

 

[Thibaulthc]

There's some truth here, the forge is one of my neglected buildings as well.

the +15% (forge bonus) for melee units is a big bonus, I always try to settle my military production city near an iron deposit just for that one

 

[Thalassicus]

I'll include a copper bonus on both buildings.

 

[Zaldron]

I don't think that is the right way to go about balancing. The Pagoda is clearly way better than the Mosque or Cathedral. Just because Firaxis thought they were roughly equal in value doesn't mean they actually are.

I'm not convinced that happiness is unilaterally better than culture or faith. In the late game in my tall VEM games I would always have way more happiness than I knew what to do with, which makes happiness worth significantly less (except for the brief period or time that had the happiness->science bonus).

 

[rhammer640]

so i was playing a game tonight and noticed that the cities when expanding aren't favoring sea tiles and especially atolles. My capital was expanding into jungle with no resources 3 tiles out before going 2 tiles out to the atolle or other sea tiles.

also i figure ill just post this here as im not sure if its a bug, but when advancing into mideaval era, my city with no defencive boost from buildings was one shotting swordsman....but 2 shotting a warrior...if this is how strong the cities get then with the AI tactical mishaps I dont see them being able to effectively capture any of my cities to be honest.

 

[Thalassicus]

That's standard stuff from G&K. The vanilla city borders avoid water. I changed that in vem, which will be in the "cities" stage of the gem beta test.

 

[GenjiKhan]

What are the plans regard Great Person Improvements? Will it be completely equal to what has been done in VEM or will it be some changes?

 

[Thalassicus]

For now they're like vem. The only difference is Landmarks now get +culture from techs instead of +gold, something Firaxis made possible by adding culture to the yields table.

 

[GenjiKhan]

Well,I suppose you don't have any plans about Holy site . What about making them give more /per turn with Printing Press?

 

[Thalassicus]

Good idea! I'd given them +5 @Theology and +10 @Flight. Based on your suggestion I reduced the gold bonus to 5 and added +5 @Printing Press.

 

[mitsho]

Why on Printing Press? Didn't the Reformation abolish Holy Sites? It was only centuries later that pilgrimages became more important again. Lourdes for example is only 100 years old or so...

 

[GenjiKhan]

Good idea! I'd given them +5 @Theology and +10 @Flight. Based on your suggestion I reduced the gold bonus to 5 and added +5 @Printing Press.

I don't think that Holy site would need a buff with Flight . Perhaps,it's better to leave the current bonus they have with Piety Finisher on G&K .

Why on Printing Press? Didn't the Reformation abolish Holy Sites? It was only centuries later that pilgrimages became more important again. Lourdes for example is only 100 years old or so...

Printing Press is the technology of Renaissance/Industrial era that have the closest tie with religion .

 

[Thalassicus]

Great improvements get modern era bonuses to help keep them relevant near the endgame.

 

[wobuffet]

I'm okay with a variety of buffs for Holy Sites, since Faith quickly gets less important as the game goes on.

 

[Calavente]

I'm meddling but I thought a bit about the
"I won't like it if 25% of Rome games I have 1 iron".

and any civ being able to USE their UU is important IMO.

So what if... palaces of civs that have a UU needing a strategic ressource get +1 of that ressource. either from start or at a given tech.

I mean : a mean of 6 irons (4-9) for ROME instead of a mean of 5 (3-8) won't be game breaking.
However in those case where "you should have gotten 3-4 but 2 are not easily available so you CAN only get to 1" it might be the difference making it worthwhile for Rome to tech to legions.

same for Horses...etc--

maybe do not use it for late game UU as you'll have more control of your ressources and cities... and the 2-3 ressources in your "reserved territory" WILL be occupied/taken wheras in early/mid game, you wouldn't have had the ressource to get them.

I'm pretty sure it would not be imbalanced.
the civ4 mod FFH gave free horses to a civ and free gold to another palace. and that was somewhat a bigger impact as 1 horse ressource was all there was needed for building any number of horsies.

 

[Thalassicus]

@Calavente
Giving free resources to leaders would have been very difficult in vanilla, but might be more feasible in G&K, since the Huns had a similar bonus until shortly before G&K's release.

 

[Acratenn]

@Thal
If you are already considering it, what about taking the resource away when the UU turns obsolete?

 

[mitsho]

I'm not sure that's a good idea. Take the Huns*. You see the horses from the start, if you want to go conquest, there's three options:

1) Horses are in the radius of the capital. You're free to go on as you wish.
2) Horses are with a City State close by. You better rush that city.
3) Horses need a second city to be picked up. You better rush that Liberty Policy that gives a second settler.

They all sound like fun to me as as a Human Player. Now if you want to give the free horse unit only if the AI plays the civ, I have nothing against. It makes them more powerful and it gives them one or two more of their uniques which is always a good idea. But for the human, I prefer not to be given everything.

*The problem here is of course that the huns don't need horses as the horse archer doesn't require them. Which is I think bad design since now you can spam them and it kinda makes the free animal husbandry pointless. Making them require horses with a bit lower power for the battering ram would be a good way to "nerf" them.

 

[Stalker0]

I really like this idea, because it is what I call a "scalpel" way of dealing with the problem.

When the argument began between the 100% model of strategic resources and the 50-150% model, the main argument for the 100% was that civs shouldn't be denied through UUs simply due to a bad roll on the RNG.

I think this solution directly addresses the problem. It allows for the 50-150% model, while still allowing civs their UUs no matter the map. If its codeable its one of the best solutions to the problem imo.