Discussion in 'Team SANCTA' started by Krill, Dec 14, 2008.
I'm still not a big fan of building the colossus, so I like option 2.
I think the Collosus is a...longterm wonder. Between Sheep, IS, gold and another city on the northern most desert tile (best Moai site we can see even apart from maybe sheep or gold) we would be working 30+ coastal tiles a turn. That's a significant amount of commerce to anyone. We could even plant a city to the east of IS on the coast with the rice and irrigate the grasslands.
I agree that the GS from sheep looks like the best option; we shouldn't however underestimate the effect the Collosus can have though.
Hey Sullla, considering we can't do anything now to affect the Oracle, care to tell us if we have it or not, so we don't waste time on these debates?
The problem I have with Collossus is that astronomy is a target for us, cause 2 observatories will help us more than extra commerce in water tiles that we wont' be working for, I dunno, 50 turns in any case.
It's 125 shields (250 but we have copper), which is 2.5 triremes, which we will need at some point. The GP points are useful, of course, but is that city going to be a wonder city?
We are not going to reach astro by t150. Hell, we will just be into the med era by t100 if we can leverage MC into all of the classical and anceint era techs, which we almost certainly can't do. Astro by tt175 is possible if we don't go to war and expand/tech and beeline it, I suppose, completely ignoring the military techs. t200 is alot more realistic.
That aside: it technically costs 112 hammers because you need a forge in the city (250/2.25), and Sheep is actually the best "unassigned" city that we could use as a GP pump, for the NE, although we can use IS as a GE pump if we build teh Hanging Gardens there and rush the Pyramids with the GE (Which, I think we should rush for the extra happy from rep).
I think people might be forgetting it's only turn 55 and we don't even have writting or IW yet...
woah we can't write? how are we discussing this?
Krill's poitn are valid, astronomy is very very far away
Just checking Memphus, but do you want me to keep on posting orders in the Turn Orders thread, or are you familiar with what the workers have to do and the build order? (Though tbh the build order only really gets weird after the forge in IS)
post please i had the last 7 turns. i always like to double check. don't want a reload
That hill is worthless to us until we have windmills (ie machinery). We need a mine on the grass hill next to it, so that is the tile that gets roaded up towards sheep.
A fuller explanation: roading that hill means the first grassland farm turns up 1 turn to late so slows growth by 1 turn, which costs us some gold. the delay in the workers means that the second grassland farm is irrigated later, so the gems are hooked up a turn later, and the settler for city 5 is built a turn later, or we slow down the road to sheep, and city 4 gets settled a turn later. While we may be wasting worker turns to get a worker back over teh JD, that's to get the cows hooked asap to get the granary done faster and grow JD quicker, and to hook up the ivory to get IS to size 6 sooner and hence to the happy cap quicker.
So the current domestics plan takes us up to turn 76 when we finish writing. I would like to suggest we research sailing after that (will take 3 turns) then build a pair of triremes in Inner Sanctum, one to sail west and one to go east.
If we interrupt the barracks and switch to library in Inner Sanctum it will finish just in time to start the ships on turn 79. Due to overflow the first will take 2 turns and the second 3 turns.
Alternately the triremes can be swapped with galleys to transport scout units around the hills and perhaps make our neighbors misjudge our actual location.
I like this....I wish we had time to get some scouting units out also, and go with the galley plan. We may even get lucky and steal a barb worker. I don't think they fit into the plan yet, so how can make that part happen also.
Actaully GREAT POINT RONNIE!!!
Gold site! let's capture the barb city that will 100% be built over there.
Gives us XP and GG points!!!
You don't get GG points against barbs, and we need a city on a specific tile to make use of the seafood; waiting for a barb city to spawn is like playing the lottery, instead of investing.
I think that what would happen is you work the copper mine, which delays growth by 1 turn compared to working the grasshill for 1 extra food to grow; if we were to get the extra hammer next turn by working wheat/copper/grass hill, then we would be down 6 food and 2 gold for getting the axe 1 turn sooner (2 less turns working the irrigated grassland). Is 1 turn worth of exploration worth that much? It'd also delay get the settler out for city six down the road, unless we didn't grow CK to size 7
Also, not 100% sure, but I think we may be 1 worker turn ahead in game compared to the sim (worker irrigating IS), and several hammers ahead in CK (less sure on this, I think, off the top of my head, we have the correct numbers of hammers, and are dead on with the food). I'll check this either tonight, or more likely tomorrow evening, as I have a formal meal to go to tonight and I'm supposed to be in labs until 1 hour before the meal starts.
EDIT: No, I'm just an idiot...all is well.
Sim is here. Correct to the start of t62, just have to press enter. I think the worker names are correct...but the amount of times I screwed that up anything could be reality.
NB. All units have the cover promo because of an event, and I'm too lazy to remove it. Also we have contact with Lizzie in teh sim (Kaz) but I've had to edit the techs that she has; if this gets problematic then we'll just have to remove contact and guestimate when techs come in. Annoying, but not much we can do about it; we'd just have to sim the food and hammers and hope the commerce works out; we'd always be simming the worst case scenario, so all the sims should still hold up to the real game.
OK, few notes to whoever plays around with the sim apast t76: Yes, we can crash the economy pretty hard if we aren't careful, but getting the Pyramids and Collosus on t102 changes everything around in very short order, especially if we do the following:
Settle gold asap, I think it is better to settle as city 6 than city 7, if we have a galley 1 tile (one turn, or one tile) behind, so we land either an axe, settler and 2 workers, or preferably, land an axe and a settler, then next turn make the city ,then sail the workers into the city and move them directly onto the gold, using the axe to cover if required, as we can see any barbs due to the city borders.
Get gems after gold; it makes us 5 commerce after the increase in city maintenence.
This allows IS to get some workers out to chop jungle for JD and plant cottages, which is something I feel I'm neglecting when I play the sim out. If we decide to go with CoL as our next big tech, then we don't ever want to be working anything other than cottages and the cow in that city, and possibly the ivory, before IS gets out another axe and galley to get teh settler over to the east.
Use galleys to scout, what we may consider doing is getting out a scout and an axe for each on; the axe we can drop off and can explore inland, but the scout we can drop off (ideally on a hill) and then reload the next turn, so we get a picture of the inland next to the coast for a coast of 15 hammers
Mine a grass hill in sheep and then chop a forest; we can get a granary in sheep with the foodbox half full this way, then just build a forge and the Collosus, using the grass hills then finally the plains hills for production.
We need health pretty quickly after turn 100; this means that we need to also prioitise getting a city down below CK for the corn, adn a city for the rice to the east of IS, so we need to nail down both sites. We have enough infomation for the rice city, but for the Corn city...I think it is best that we just consider the plains hill tile directly east of the Banana, as that gets both food resources, 4 grass hills and what looks like atleast another two hills besides that.
The Corn city also needs a good number of defenders, minimum of 1 axe adn a spear, but personally I would feel much more comfortable with 2 axes and a spear in that city along with another spear or two down by city 5.
I like it!
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