[RD] George Floyd and protesting while black

[Sonereal]

That removes the comparative validity of the example though. Antifa/BLMarxists don't act in accordance with their name, which is the point.

Oh it sure does. I for one am perfectly content with Targets going up in flames given they hoover up community cash, extract labor value, and send that value to shareholders in New York City. Really, the ultimate form expression of the transition toward freedom is looting. A wise man once said that.

I'd not recommend condoning violence either, given that some accused are not guilty.

I'm not recommending violence. I'm just saying that, theoretically, if this was to happen, I'd tithe to the GoFundMe.

 

[Estebonrober]

The problem with cops are their own actions. It's an inane concept to create an organization called something like "anti-crime" and then go around assaulting people, burning property, etc...then complain that anybody complaining about such an organization must be "pro-crime". But this is in essence the behavior of cops/pigs.

I don't ever actually say this kind of thing, but. . .well played sir, well played. The point will fly over the libertarian's head but it could not be more succinct.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Oh it sure does. I for one am perfectly content with Targets going up in flames given they hoover up community cash, extract labor value, and send that value to shareholders in New York City. Really, the ultimate form expression of the transition toward freedom is looting. A wise man once said that.



I'm not recommending violence. I'm just saying that, theoretically, if this was to happen, I'd tithe to the GoFundMe.

I guess we'll have a few more worse-than-Detroit outcomes in cities that agree with you then. As long as they get no federal funding then people who want to live in places like that can enjoy the 3rd world environment their elected officials brought to them. Kind of annoying when failed experiments like California move out and try to create the same laws again though.

Meanwhile, competent governance can reform their police without cancerous skipping of law.

 

[Yeekim]

Target is a giant corporation that supports the state that kills black lives so it kind of seems like targeting Targets is actually a practical political goal for people who want to oppose an oppressive state. It's like throwing tea into the harbor.

Ever paid taxes?
Would make you a valid target by that logic.

 

[Sonereal]

I guess we'll have a few more worse-than-Detroit outcomes in cities that agree with you then. As long as they get no federal funding then people who want to live in places like that can enjoy the 3rd world environment their elected officials brought to them. Kind of annoying when failed experiments like California move out and try to create the same laws again though.

Believe me, the US government withdrawing completely from Detroit would be the best thing to ever happened to Detroit. I sincerely long for the day the US government withdraws from North America entirely. Please, I beg you, withdraw the US government from everywhere people don't want the US government and I promise you the world would be infinitely better.

Meanwhile, competent governance can reform their police without cancerous skipping of law.

Imagine actually believing this. That 1.) The US government is competent and B.) The police can be reformed.

Ever paid taxes?

Your Target is next. Antifa roll out.

Would make you a valid target by that logic.

Yeah, if you burned all the dictionaries that defined the word logic, sure.

 

[Seon]

Chinese police kill about 10-20 people per year for the entire country. American police kill 1000-1200 per year. China also has four times as many population as America. By any reasonable metric we can see that the police in America tends to be much more violent in completion of its regular duties than its counterparts elsewhere in the world.

 

[Sonereal]

The problem with cops are their own actions. It's an inane concept to create an organization called something like "anti-crime" and then go around assaulting people, burning property, etc...then complain that anybody complaining about such an organization must be "pro-crime". But this is in essence the behavior of cops/pigs.

The cops already formed an "anti-crime" organization. It's called the Klan.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Chinese police kill about 10-20 people per year for the entire country.

I'm sure the CCP would love if we believed that as it throws millions of religious minorities in actual concentration camps.

The cops already formed an "anti-crime" organization. It's called the Klan.

That's quite the conspiracy theory.

 

[Seon]

I don't ever actually say this kind of thing, but. . .well played sir, well played. The point will fly over the libertarian's head but it could not be more succinct.

Authoritarian groups like libertarians believe it is right and natural for those with authority—the police and business owners—to have less or no responsibility to others—aside from maintenance of social order that enables those people to continue to possess authority.

This is why they will always support the police aside from edge cases where they denounce them for interfering with free business.

 

[Crezth]

Ever paid taxes?
Would make you a valid target by that logic.

Oh I'm peanuts compared to the guys who chair legislative councils and get their politicians elected to lobby for their interests in government. The rioters get that as well.

 

[Seon]

The 10-20 killed by police action is actually quite believable. It is still true that it throws people into concentration camps and also executes people a lot lot more than Americans do.

However, this does not change the fact that American police are far more violent than Chinese on its regular duties. If you insist that China shoots thousands of criminals without giving them due process first, where is the evidence?

 

[Sonereal]

I'm sure the CCP would love if we believed that as it throws millions of religious minorities in actual concentration camps.

TMIT prefers the more humane American response: starving Iraqi children and leveling their cities from the sky.

That's quite the conspiracy theory.

Oh man could you imagine if there was a long history of American policing and its ties to white supremacist organizations such as the Klan? Thank Goodness I live in the post-racial utopia of the United States where the real threat to racial harmony are Black Lives Marxists and their demands for "please cops stop flashbanging our babies in their cribs" and "please cops, stop escalating expired tags to roadside executions".

Of course, to know that long history would require reading books or, you know, talking to Black people. Knowing Black people that aren't on the telly or in video games. You know, interacting with members of the communities you're quick to side with the oppressor against. That would require taking time out of your busy podcast schedule though.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Authoritarian groups like libertarians

That's not how reality works.

This is why they will always support the police aside from edge cases where they denounce them for interfering with free business.

Law enforcement is critical for functional society. Reforming it when it doesn't work well is reasonable. Not supporting its existence is a failed experiment.

If you insist that China shoots thousands of criminals without giving them due process first, where is the evidence?

Getting tossed in a camp w/o due process is a more serious issue. Police killing of unarmed/non-threatening people in the US is a tiny fraction of those "thousands". In exchange, we don't have a conviction rate > 99% (though China is not unique in that problem).

TMIT prefers the more humane American response: starving Iraqi children and leveling their cities from the sky.

I don't recall saying this and would appreciate if you didn't outright lie just to squeeze out weak another ad hominem.

 

[Crezth]

Law enforcement is critical for functional society. Reforming it when it doesn't work well is reasonable. Not supporting its existence is a failed experiment.

TMIT weighs in: Decolonization is a failed experiment.

 

[Sonereal]

That's not how reality works.

- There is no "I" in team. There is no "we" either. There is a me.

Law enforcement is critical for functional society. Reforming it when it doesn't work well is reasonable. Not supporting its existence is a failed experiment.

So critical that when the NYPD threw a hissy fit and went on strike crime went down in New York City.

Getting tossed in a camp w/o due process is a more serious issue. Police killing of unarmed/non-threatening people in the US is a tiny fraction of those "thousands". In exchange, we don't have a conviction rate > 99% (though China is not unique in that problem).

Did you ever read the quote you're replying to????

 

[Seon]

1. I have yet to see any evidence that libertarians are not authoritarians. I have made my arguments regarding this before and have not seen any refutation on my points.

2. I do not deny that getting tossed into a camp without due process is a more serious issue. However, my point have been that Chinese police are far less violent than American police during the completion of its regular duties. If we ignore population, American police are about 50-100 times more likely to shoot you than Chinese police. Four times that if we account for population. Your argument is that because we tolerate our police to shoot people without due process we get... a fairer due process. I do not think this is valid reasoning.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Did you ever read the quote you're replying to????

Yes.

1. I have yet to see any evidence that libertarians are not authoritarians. I have made my arguments regarding this before and have not seen any refutation on my points.

We'll probably go too far off topic discussing this, but there are some confused definitions going on here. Perhaps in another thread.

2. I do not deny that getting tossed into a camp without due process is a more serious issue. However, my point have been that Chinese police are far less violent than American police during the completion of its regular duties. If we ignore population, American police are about 50-100 times more likely to shoot you than Chinese police. Four times that if we account for population. Your argument is that because we tolerate our police to shoot people without due process we get... a fairer due process. I do not think this is valid reasoning.

Different circumstances, different outcomes. When it comes to me personally, I do not believe myself less likely to be shot here than in China because I've said bad things about the CCP.

Most police shootings involve violence first directed at the police. Not all, and that's a problem worth fixing.

 

[Sonereal]

I don't recall saying this and would appreciate if you didn't outright lie just to squeeze out weak another ad hominem.

Sorry, I don't know what an ad hominem is. Can you please explain to me using as many instances of the phrase "Black Lives Marxists" and "I heart the police" as possible?

Yes.

Prove it.

TMIT weighs in: Decolonization is a failed experiment.

British colonial police were bad yes, but they could be reformed and be not as bad.

 

[Seon]

1. Most police shooting involving violence directed at police is an assertion. To prove this, you would need to cite me some sources. I do not, as I am only pointing out discrepancy in numbers to show that American police shoots comparatively far far more people than Chinese ones.

You are also framing this in point of your personal belief, rather than any grounding in facts and evidence. This means your opinion on the matter is merely that—an opinion ungrounded by any actual basis in reality, and thus discardable.

 

[Hrothbern]

Whenever a civil service has practical impunity for mistakes or "mistakes", whether a police force or any other civil serrvice... it will erode the (social) contract between the citizens and the public state.