Get it on...Bang a Gong Diplo thread

[Tubby Rower]

if they have ~ 13 turns left on the Glib... it does suck to be wasting gold as beakers when we'll have those techs later.

I'm torn on this. I think that we need to finish Feud and maybe start engineering to get full movement out of the roads over rivers.

 

[Whomp]

I tried to fill Daghie in our some of out thoughts on reseaching.

Spoiler :

Lots of small talk then....
DaghieDrumBum says:
i'm trying to make a draft for babes/Gongers
DaghieDrumBum says:
i want a big pic-long term agreement inked soon
DaghieDrumBum says:
details later
Whomp says:
ok
Whomp says:
btw here's the scoop on techs
Whomp says:
Saber still doesn't have lit
DaghieDrumBum says:
omg
Whomp says:
nor MM, Constr and myst
DaghieDrumBum says:
GLib gamble big time
Whomp says:
so if they're prebuilding we'd eventually see it
Whomp says:
they're not showing a wonder
DaghieDrumBum says:
palace
Whomp says:
could be
DaghieDrumBum says:
must be
Whomp says:
Council is prebuilding with ToA
Whomp says:
I think they're going for Leos
DaghieDrumBum says:
good guess
Whomp says:
because they have feud and engineering as their free techs so seem to be beelining to cavs
Whomp says:
weird
DaghieDrumBum says:
saw that, yes
Whomp says:
mono is still open
DaghieDrumBum says:
jb was not impressed
Whomp says:
doesn't seem to make sense
Whomp says:
that means no knights or boats that can be a problem
Whomp says:
you may want to hide Glib with ToA
DaghieDrumBum says:
how about we gamble on getting all their lower tire techs w the mama lib and you go upper?
DaghieDrumBum says:
and you hold edu
Whomp says:
we were hoping we could both go mono and feud to get chiv
Whomp says:
but we understand your thinking on running cash
Whomp says:
we could get feud in 6
DaghieDrumBum says:
yes, but that would somehow be shared of course
Whomp says:
i just wonder if we're better off getting mono and feud so we can each have chiv
Whomp says:
while we'll get all the lower techs from Glib
Whomp says:
if we have boats and knights we could be a nightmare for these guys
DaghieDrumBum says:
but are we in a hurry for knights if the dirtbags go lower?
DaghieDrumBum says:
you wanna go whack some before they arrive?
Whomp says:
the advantage of getting knights now is we can upgrade easier and focus on getting boats out fastDaghieDrumBum says:
do you have iron?
Whomp says:
we do now
Whomp says:
island
DaghieDrumBum says:
congrats
DaghieDrumBum says:
i wouldn't want to bum you guys out by not going full speed on mono
Whomp says:
well i think it will give us a huge lead if we do get both rolling
Whomp says:
then if it's timed we can get in the other teams kitchen
DaghieDrumBum says:
we will bothe be rollin like thunder. just a matter of right now or in little while
DaghieDrumBum says:
babes seem more eager than gongers
Whomp says:
i know
Whomp says:
we can decide together but our case would be it's just one step closer to boats that the others won't have
Whomp says:
and we really don't need the boats
DaghieDrumBum says:
i cannot argue with that
Whomp says:
if they'd researched mono i'd say it was different
Whomp says:
it seems obvious they're going lower half at max speed
DaghieDrumBum says:
yes
DaghieDrumBum says:
my thinking is that trading overseas will be bigger than shipping units
Whomp says:
oh yeah
Whomp says:
no doubt
DaghieDrumBum says:
saltpeter...!
Whomp says:
i'm sure rik has major things up his sleeve
DaghieDrumBum says:
going for cavs full speed, then no powder for fuel
Whomp says:
or just one to share with two
DaghieDrumBum says:
hehe
DaghieDrumBum says:
if we can infest the saber island and agree on sharing we will be in a nice spot
DaghieDrumBum says:
i won't have cham on a stack of sip's
Whomp says:
exactly
Whomp says:
the other two don't have a UU that should be feared
DaghieDrumBum says:
agree
DaghieDrumBum says:
just for triggering a GA
Whomp says:
if they can
Whomp says:
have you ever used those cannons for a GA?
DaghieDrumBum says:
they're playing they strenghts
DaghieDrumBum says:
nope
Whomp says:
you need to kill something to generate a GA
DaghieDrumBum says:
never played koreans
Whomp says:
bizarre UU
DaghieDrumBum says:
just hide one in a Sod
Whomp says:
it needs to do the killing
DaghieDrumBum says:
or 5
Whomp says:
it has lethal bombard but still...
DaghieDrumBum says:
it has strong bombardment 12 insted of 8 IIRC
Whomp says:
right
DaghieDrumBum says:
i will ponder the mono thing once again
Whomp says:
ok
DaghieDrumBum says:
we will be earnest in which way we choose
Whomp says:
is Cane back now? I haven't seen him in Civ4 forum yet
DaghieDrumBum says:
still cuddeling methinks
Whomp says:
of course
Whomp says:
turns already to you i see lol
DaghieDrumBum says:
would be nice to have himas tp again
DaghieDrumBum says:
i'll do somedirty work til he comes back
DaghieDrumBum says:
dirtbags wanna speed up
DaghieDrumBum says:
i think they want turns to go faster than diplo
Whomp says:
i still haven't heard back from saber on my note
Whomp says:
they must be panicked by it
Whomp says:
did jb show you?
DaghieDrumBum says:
free/counsil have a solid long termer and just wanna play it out
DaghieDrumBum says:
i'veseen it
Whomp says:
lose the connection?
Whomp says:
JB's here
DaghieDrumBum says:
back
DaghieDrumBum says:
bring him in
Whomp says:
hmm
DaghieDrumBum says:
hi jb (JB never appeared)
Whomp says:
seems he's away
DaghieDrumBum says:
yeah...hmm
DaghieDrumBum says:
hows tubby?
Whomp says:
Great
DaghieDrumBum says:
any tantrums
Whomp says:
he bought a new aquarium he's into
DaghieDrumBum says:
oh cool
Whomp says:
he moved his home
Whomp says:
and the kids are getting big fast
DaghieDrumBum says:
tell me about it
Whomp says:
no tantrums other than when council said we couldn't use their waterways even outside their borders
DaghieDrumBum says:
send him my best
Whomp says:
i will
DaghieDrumBum says:
they said that???
Whomp says:
initially
DaghieDrumBum says:
that si making an explicit point
DaghieDrumBum says:
as in "we have AC"
Whomp says:
we told them that we felt it was quite provocative
Whomp says:
and it was sent by Babe Ruth instead of one of our Babes
DaghieDrumBum says:
LOL
Whomp says:
he's not the most attractive babe in the world and he carries a big stick
DaghieDrumBum says:
have ty cobb send the next one
Whomp says:

Whomp says:
he's even uglier and definitely meaner
DaghieDrumBum says:
i've been told, yes
DaghieDrumBum says:
have him sit on a horse when delivering
Whomp says:
hah
Whomp says:
that would be funny
DaghieDrumBum says:
saw currency popped up. thanks a bunch

Priming him for our thoughts on war. Eventually we should make them aware of our intentions. Timing?
DaghieDrumBum says:
do we have anyone counting beans in reference to our affairs?
Whomp says:
well not so much
Whomp says:
i know wotan knows
DaghieDrumBum says:
not my arena that one
DaghieDrumBum says:
so we both fell like win/win
Whomp says:
thing is our view is if we smash through the MA's it's a huge win for us
Whomp says:
together
DaghieDrumBum says:
smashing and whacking don't always go hand in hand
DaghieDrumBum says:
starting a sabre campaign will slow that down
DaghieDrumBum says:
*thinking of the tnt campaign*
Whomp says:
i think massive force would be the key
Whomp says:
like MIA to us
DaghieDrumBum says:
massive is key
Whomp says:
I'd like to do it soon personally
Whomp says:
but that's my inner warmonger talking
DaghieDrumBum says:
the astro dash?
Whomp says:
well we don't need it to fight
Whomp says:
that's a big advantage i'm trying to convince our team about
Whomp says:
we have Glight so they can't return fire except on our terms
DaghieDrumBum says:
one step ahead of us there
DaghieDrumBum says:
we couldn't helpmuch
Whomp says:
you would though
Whomp says:
not militarily maybe but helping each of us to have the same capability goes a long long way
DaghieDrumBum says:
that we could do
jb1964 has left the conversation.

Whomp says:
eventually galleys won't offer what caravels or galleons would
DaghieDrumBum says:
so true
DaghieDrumBum says:
when can you get us in contact w dirtbags? PP?
Whomp says:
with Free?
DaghieDrumBum says:
yes
Whomp says:
i think it makes sense once Glib is finished
DaghieDrumBum says:
i'd say just before we get edu
Whomp says:
you know i think that was the reason why we waited
Whomp says:
we felt they'd already blow through edu by now
Whomp says:
but now i'm not sure it will matter as much other than tipping them off to your build
DaghieDrumBum says:
wouldn't we increase our chanses of more techs if we waited some?
Whomp says:
that's the thinking
Whomp says:
especially if they got education
Whomp says:
i have to walk the dogs be back in 10
DaghieDrumBum says:
well I've gotta go shut eye. i'llhold on playing the save and see what has happende during the evening when I wake up.
DaghieDrumBum says:
maybe we can get a treaty on peace/rescourses soon and do something more detailed on science asap? we will do Mono if you've already started on Feud. I'll get back on our science speed soon. CYA soon Bernie

He was gone when I returned.

 

[Kickbooti]

Boy it is nice having Dag, Cane and jb running things. I don't know if they voted Rick off the island or just pried the wheel away, but this is much, much nicer.

 

[ThERat]

ok, this looks good and promising. I hope they will really go for mono then

 

[Wotan]

They say they will go for mono if we have started on Feudalism. And since we have the decision seems to be made already. Just get info on their ETA, we want to get Feudalsim to coincide with this so we get max use of Scientists.

 

[Wotan]

From Killercane:

We can have Feudalism in 4-5 turns, and Mono in 5. We probably wont want to build the GLibrary if we do Mono. Do you guys want us to do Feudalism and you Engineering? How much gold do we still owe you guys?

He does not seem to have read up on the discussions. We have already started on Feudalism and we have talked about mono/feudalism to open up Chivalry, right? Also not going for the GLib seems a bit late now... That is definitely part of the agreement they try to build it. And it is due in 10 turns or so.

 

[Whomp]

I'm not sure he realizes these guys are likely beelining the lower half. One of them may be doing a slow burn on mono but the other is looking running hot on invention and beyond at this point.

Pm sent to Daghie.

Hey Daghie,

We got a message from 'Cane saying you may not want to finish Glib. The thing about Free/Council research is they are likely running max on the lower half and cash for the other. My guess is they've already got invention and are continuing along that path. Do you think it's worth giving up on Glib still? It would likely mean engineering, invention and gunpowder at the min.

We're on feud if you go mono and it will be timed perfectly so we can continue on.

Let us know.
W

 

[Whomp]

Here's my conversation with Killercane. I think I've tried to show them the light. They were thinking Leo's instead of Glib but by denying Saber and having the other two go full speed towards MT benefits us both. They could run cash and we could get chiv (they don't have horses btw).

Spoiler :

casey j says:

Guy talk stuff....Gram H you can skip this stuff.
Bernie!
Whomp says:
HEY what's up old married guy
casey j says:
nothing, kicking this ball and chain attached to my ankle around
Whomp says:
i have a couple rules for you
casey j says:
yeah?
Whomp says:
1. always make the call. If you think you'll be home at 10 say 11
casey j says:
ha
Whomp says:
always better to give yourself some room to manuever
Whomp says:
you'll be a hero if you're home at 10
casey j says:
yep thats a good one
Whomp says:
2. don't let her throw all your junk out even if she says it's so 90's
Whomp says:
keep you junk and make a stand
Whomp says:
you'll get that comment i swear
casey j says:
i think ive successfully fought off that one already
casey j says:
already got it!
Whomp says:
attaboy
casey j says:
wanting to throw all my 80s baseball cards away
Whomp says:
that doesn't work
casey j says:
hey thats my childhood memories!
Whomp says:
zactly
casey j says:
thats some good advice but i need some more
Whomp says:
ok have a small slush fund
Whomp says:
it's always useful in cases when you're playing poker or going to the boats
Whomp says:
not that you're trying to be devious but there's times when a man has to be able to do what he has to do
Whomp says:
poker is one of those times
Whomp says:
she's already allocated the whole budget for the house, stuff, window treatments, nick knacks....stuff
casey j says:
heh yeah, i got "lets remodel the bathroom" yesterday
Whomp says:
seeeeee....
Whomp says:
and it probably needs to be done
Whomp says:
however...
casey j says:
however?
Whomp says:
she's not allowed to spend like a drunkin' sailor

To business...
casey j says:
hey can we trade contacts in the MTDG (civ 3) with Mapmaking?
casey j says:
yeah its gonna be spend spend spend i told her
Whomp says:
we can give you contacts yes
casey j says:
ah ok, so the only consideration is beating the other two to the Library
casey j says:
other 3 i guess
Whomp says:
Saber hasn't returned a message on my offer
Whomp says:
I don't think the other two are looking at Glib
casey j says:
i wouldnt think so
Whomp says:
I think they're trying to get Leo's though
casey j says:
well the catch is this
casey j says:
if we build the library before they get Gunpowder, they wont trade across
Whomp says:
don't they need to know where the salt is?
casey j says:
they could trade maps to the other team
Whomp says:
true
Whomp says:
i'm thinking they must have invention and should be closing in on powder don't you?
Whomp says:
they've had ~10 turns in the MA's
Whomp says:
or more
casey j says:
i sent a pm to Wotan saying something similar but you are more familiar with their timeline. they got Feud and Engineering free or they got the same tech for both? I think one is researching and the other is financing them
Whomp says:
i agree
Whomp says:
my guess is they got the same tech
Whomp says:
or they'd be further ahead
casey j says:
they are on invention now then, or close to gunpowder. one is republic or they both are now?
Whomp says:
hmm
Whomp says:
i think both

Prebuild talk...
Whomp says:
Out of curiousity if you didn't do Glib what would you do?
Whomp says:
you have FP
casey j says:
Leos
Whomp says:
ok
Whomp says:
through ToA?
casey j says:
no just with palace
Whomp says:
k
casey j says:
you have a leos build as well? i asked that a while back i think
Whomp says:
nope

Feed a little war propaganda...
Whomp says:
I'm gathering steam on pounding Saber while they're down
Whomp says:
between me and you
Whomp says:
and they're way down
casey j says:
well thats good. wotan was saying we had agreed to do mono but i dont see the point if we build TGL
Whomp says:
3 techs would be the benefit and that assumes they don't continue along the lower half
Whomp says:
I think we'd be able to get quite a tech lead if it's done
Whomp says:
and denying Saber too
casey j says:
how since we cant tech past education?
Whomp says:
chivalry and theo first
casey j says:
yes but why would we need those? MWs> knights and we have no horses
Whomp says:
ahh

Whomp says:
how soon would you need to switch?
Whomp says:
114?
casey j says:
switch what, governments?
Whomp says:
no prebuilds
casey j says:
prebuilds to Leos or Great Libe?
Whomp says:
yep
]b]casey j says:
TGL is due in like 10 turns yeah
casey j says:
so that is enough time for the others to get gunpowder i think[/b]
Whomp says:
one second holly's on the phone
casey j says:
no prob
Whomp says:
back
Whomp says:
OK so a few things

Summarize....
Whomp says:
1. is denying Saber and keeping them ancient
Whomp says:
2. eng., invention and powder
Whomp says:
you could run cash at that point
Whomp says:
and we could get chiv
Whomp says:
then theo
Whomp says:
if they keep rolling towards chem that could be possible
Whomp says:
it still seems worth it to me
casey j says:
1 is good and grand
casey j says:
but 2 would be hopefully get eng, invention and powder free, and then follow them to MT dont you think?
casey j says:
we finance you that way?
Whomp says:
if they continue on that path it would be huge
Whomp says:
it wouldn't be long before we'd have astro and MT
casey j says:
if they dont we will just get mono->edu free, and hedge our bets by researching up to MT
Whomp says:
another reason we have to deny Saber is if they get MT look out
casey j says:
now conversely if we researched full blast to astro, the libe is useless, but we would have a short term advantage to exploit
Whomp says:
i'm surprised they didn't split research already
Whomp says:
the other benefit of getting astro is trading resources which i think will be sparse
casey j says:
yeah we will need ocean travel for that though
casey j says:
oh gotta run, we have the save, i will try to be back on later. do you guys really really really want us to do mono or do you just want to wait?
Whomp says:
ok
Whomp says:
i think it makes sense
Whomp says:
if they're going lower half it plays into our hands

 

[Wotan]

casey j says:
oh gotta run, we have the save, i will try to be back on later. do you guys really really really want us to do mono or do you just want to wait?
Whomp says:
ok

Is this OK = YES WE WANT MONO? It is a bit ambiguous I guess. And we really really want them to get mono. So not really sure why this risk of misunderstanding?

 

[Whomp]

The "ok" was "ok good bye". I'm trying to see what they're driving at because I feel we're spinning our wheels. Stepping out of your Babe shoes does anyone understand why they're not understanding the situation? What are the other options? Is it Leo's so Saber gets Glib?

I think we're going to have to explain that we'll consider this as quite uncooperative if they're not following through and maybe we should work with Saber instead. Sheesh.

From Daghie.

Hi there Bernie, we're discussing the options vividly. I fully aware you'd prefer us to go GLib and deny Saber a catch-up + getting a head start on the lower tier. I'm advocating that too, but there are more options of course and nothing is definitely decided. I will stick to my promise to let you know which way we go as soon as decided. I know this indecision will put some Babes off so heres a to cool 'em.
I'm off to practice so won't take part of this evenings diplo.

Stay clean
//N

 

[Wotan]

Starting to talk about other options when we have just helped them into the MA and really given them a lot for basically nothing is a bit much.

We agreed on them going for GLib as part of the deal, that is not open for renegotiation nor is mono. Or how would they repay us for 20+ turns of research they could save?????? I'm beginning to really dislike these guys.

I sure hope they have started on Mono when they post the save and keep working on the GLib.

 

[Whomp]

If they don't we'll have to let them know this is not a way to be partners and we should probably forget the long term partnership.

I'm truly trying to understand their thinking for their perspective and can't come up with anything.

Message sent to Daghie.

Daghie,

We're trying to see things from your perspective but I'll be honest it's difficult. We've given you ~20 turns worth of research as a sign of good will. By not going for Glib and mono doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to us for a lot of reasons that I mentioned to 'Cane.

Please enlighten us why you're balking at this and if you're not doing Glib and mono where do we stand?

Our view is this brings us up to speed with Council/Free and leaves Saber in the dust amongst many other things like you being able to run full cash once it's finished....please tell us how we're both rewarded.

Thanks
W

 

[Wotan]

If there is any discontent on their team that is simply not our problem. Those that did iron out the currnet deal with us need to step up and explain to the rest of tehir team this is not something that is renegotiable. Besides this is taking a lot of energy from our game constantly having to discuss things over and over again. it is plainly stupid and given the extreme stupidity when Rick played and adding that it is beginning to just be too much for my tast. unfortunatly we have given them everything for just about nothing in return and only promises so far of techs and GLib benefits. We even gave them some mapping info and what do we get in return?

A lame, Oh, we are thinking about not doing anything we have promised to do. There are those on the team who would want to go another road.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO RENEGOTIATE WE HAVE DELIVERED EVERTHING THEY WANTED FROM THE DEAL AND ARE NOW WAITING FOR THEM TO FULFILL THEIR PART OF THE DEAL

As Tubby, Kickbooti and others so aptly put it:
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF STUPID PEOPLE IN LARGE GROUPS

I guess GONG has reached the critical mass to be called a large group

 

[Kickbooti]

We agreed on them going for GLib as part of the deal, that is not open for renegotiation nor is mono. Or how would they repay us for 20+ turns of research they could save?????? I'm beginning to really dislike these guys.

Could they gift us the Leo city for a few turns for upgrades? As a worse case scenario I mean. Since Free/Council are so tight the other option is to try and cozy up to Saber/GLib, and that ship may have sailed.

 

[Wotan]

That scenario is not even worth discussing. We have a deal the time to discuss any deal is long since gone. And now they have roughly 30 mins to post a save. Not even that seeems to be something these jokers can manage.

considering the attitude and behavior of ppl on the GONG team I am very surprised about the developments thinking back to the early days of this "alliance" and Tubby's reassuring words:

those guys are honorable and I'd be willing to gift them with "future favors" to be determined later. be it techs, cash or military help

Seldom have I experienced less honourable actions in the past.

 

[Wotan]

Have the save, they are researching mono. And I have recieved a PM from Daghie about him thinking they will get in line... In swedish so not a lot of value posting it I guess?

 

[Whomp]

Hopefully they're coming to their senses. It's like a light bulb went off talking to JB.

Spoiler :

jb1964 says:
OK, I just read a post by Daghie that my newly energized teammates are dicking up our plans.
Whomp says:
I don't get it
jb1964 says:
Don't worry, we're not going to let that happen
Whomp says:
K
Whomp says:
It doesn't make sense to anyone on our team
jb1964 says:
We're going to go for Mono, get that to you, get Chiv in your hands and then see how the GLib shakes out
jb1964 says:
Here's the schenario...
Whomp says:
no chiv isn't necessary
Whomp says:
we'll research that so it's just mono
jb1964 says:
OK, whatever, we'll get you what you need
Whomp says:
you can turn off research after mono
jb1964 says:
I've been whipping up the membership to get involved
jb1964 says:
and some are asking ogood questions but they're not reading the history
jb1964 says:
And kane just got back from his honeymoon so he's completely screwed up
jb1964 says:

Whomp says:
Well if they don't understand that speed is an issue ten what is it?
Whomp says:
I can understand wanting Leo's however the way I see it Glib is Leo's times 10
jb1964 says:
Dunno, I'm just guessing...
jb1964 says:
Leo's sucks
jb1964 says:
Make Leo's our fallback
Whomp says:
it's ok but the reality is Glib allows you to turn off research
Whomp says:
that's huge
jb1964 says:
understood
Whomp says:
and catch up techwise
Whomp says:
that's worth who knows how many free turns burning cash
jb1964 says:
Well, the turn is onto you guys, and we're researching Mono.
Whomp says:
OK cool
Whomp says:
JB we're not trying to be difficult, are we?
Whomp says:
I mean Babe when I say this
jb1964 says:
Well, if you don't want Mono for Chivalry, I'm not sure I get it either... Other than as a risk abatement paln for not getting GLib
Whomp says:
Mono hasn't been researched
jb1964 says:
Ah yes.... we need to research it any ways
jb1964 says:
nevermind
Whomp says:
they're going lower half
Whomp says:
engineering --> invention --> likely gunpowder (for salt recognition)
jb1964 says:
OK, but you seem to want Feud prior to sailing and I can understand that
Whomp says:
we need mono to research astro
jb1964 says:
rather than wait for a GLib windfall
Whomp says:
there won't be an upper half windfall
jb1964 says:
but you're researching Feud right now correct?
Whomp says:
it will all be lower half
Whomp says:
cuz we can do it in 5 while you're doing mono in 5
Whomp says:
we can then do chiv while you sit on zero research
Whomp says:
waiting for glib to come in
jb1964 says:
OK, I understand
jb1964 says:
I'll make it painfully clear to my fellow gogners.
Whomp says:
so within 10 turns we get three techs and on turn 11 likely another 3
Whomp says:
that's huge
Whomp says:
and more if they keep running to MT!
jb1964 says:
Ya, I'm not going to research eduactation, that's for sure
Whomp says:
that's why the timing of mono/feud is so big
Whomp says:
Well there again is a huge advantage
Whomp says:
if they're burning lower half then one of them will have to go upper meaning both are researching while only one of us is researching
Whomp says:
does that make sense?
Whomp says:
Casey's online
jb1964 says:
Ya, he's online and he just pinged me...
Whomp says:
k
jb1964 says:
We're talking Mono...
jb1964 says:
Here's my post in our Department of Turnplay...
jb1964 says:
Mono is an unknown tech so somebody's going to have to research it anyways and we might even do that to make a mad dash to Astro w/ the Babes.

So point 1 is, we need Mono for a run at Astro.

The Babes are going for Feud presumably to bring some pikes with them to Sabre island.

Point 2 is, they don't need to research it but it has high value to them sooner rather then later.

After we get Mono,
jb1964 says:
we go zero research and they go for Chivalry. The sooner the get Mono the sooner they get started on Chivalry and can be pumping out knights in their Golden Age putting a big hurt on Sabre.

Point 3, if we leave them hanging they're going to be pissed. We don't want that.

The Babes own the seas and we should enable them to take high advantage of that at the expense of our neighbors.
jb1964 says:
I bit selfish and inward oriented, but that will peak to the troops
jb1964 says:
A bit selfish, that is...
Whomp says:
The way I look at it is Glib saves 15-25 turns on research
Whomp says:
maybe more
jb1964 says:
There's no way in hell that GLib build is going to turn into anything else as long as it's available...
Whomp says:
meanwhile having the capability to move caravels early is big. I think we both realize controlling the seas will be a difference maker
jb1964 says:
To swap that for Leo's is not a good move, it's frigging stupid
Whomp says:
Leo's won't happen if you don't get Glib anyhow
jb1964 says:
A point that I will also make, thanks for being my brain today
Whomp says:
that would require engineering and feud and invention
Whomp says:
feud will be done but engineering and invention may make that a slow down in proudction
jb1964 says:
And that would presume we're not going for GLiba nyhow so we should be going for Mono w/ fire in our hair anyway
jb1964 says:
Sheesh
jb1964 says:
Casey's been bouncing in and out, looks like he's having the same issue I've been having but more severe

 

[Wotan]

OK, Killercane seems to be left out of the loop. Got this from him and my reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by killercane
Dags said he got some annoyed pms from you and Whomp; I was just trying to get on the same page with you guys since it is a bit unclear why we were researching Mono asap when we probably will get it two turns later upon building the Great Library. It is unclear in our forum, and it only really says Wotan said "Research mono."

Can we have a team chat or something soon?

My reply:
FREE/Council has Feudalism/Engineering but not mono. I think Whomp was involved in a chat a short while ago?

We talked about going mono/Feudalism together (while you were gone) and your team wanted to take on Mono if we started on Feudalism (UU and such was an issue I guess) When I played last turn I sent a message about us starting on Feudalism thus the "Wotan said" I guess. It was just to tell you we had begun and was interested in an ETA for your research into mono.

 

[Whomp]

The rest of the conversation. Killercane asked that we let him know the turn we'll finish feud. Their GA ends on turn 108 so he'd like to know if it will be turn 109 or 110. That way he can fiddle with his scientists.

Spoiler :

Whomp says:
Casey's online
jb1964 says:
Ya, he's online and he just pinged me...
Whomp says:
k
jb1964 says:
We're talking Mono...
jb1964 says:
Here's my post in our Department of Turnplay...
jb1964 says:
Mono is an unknown tech so somebody's going to have to research it anyways and we might even do that to make a mad dash to Astro w/ the Babes.

So point 1 is, we need Mono for a run at Astro.

The Babes are going for Feud presumably to bring some pikes with them to Sabre island.

Point 2 is, they don't need to research it but it has high value to them sooner rather then later.

After we get Mono,
jb1964 says:
we go zero research and they go for Chivalry. The sooner the get Mono the sooner they get started on Chivalry and can be pumping out knights in their Golden Age putting a big hurt on Sabre.

Point 3, if we leave them hanging they're going to be pissed. We don't want that.

The Babes own the seas and we should enable them to take high advantage of that at the expense of our neighbors.
jb1964 says:
I bit selfish and inward oriented, but that will peak to the troops
jb1964 says:
A bit selfish, that is...
Whomp says:
The way I look at it is Glib saves 15-25 turns on research
Whomp says:
maybe more
jb1964 says:
There's no way in hell that GLib build is going to turn into anything else as long as it's available...
Whomp says:
meanwhile having the capability to move caravels early is big. I think we both realize controlling the seas will be a difference maker
jb1964 says:
To swap that for Leo's is not a good move, it's frigging stupid
Whomp says:
Leo's won't happen if you don't get Glib anyhow
jb1964 says:
A point that I will also make, thanks for being my brain today
Whomp says:
that would require engineering and feud and invention
Whomp says:
feud will be done but engineering and invention may make that a slow down in proudction
jb1964 says:
And that would presume we're not going for GLiba nyhow so we should be going for Mono w/ fire in our hair anyway
jb1964 says:
Sheesh
jb1964 says:
Casey's been bouncing in and out, looks like he's having the same issue I've been having but more severe

Casey has been added to the conversation.

jb1964 has left the conversation.

jb1964 has been added to the conversation.

Whomp says:
haha
Whomp says:
ok we're all here
jb1964 says:
Hola my friends
Casey says:
cool hang on just one sec
Whomp says:
Wotan's playing the save
Whomp says:
it seems he and Daghie talked in their native tongue
jb1964 says:
What, "Drummer"?
Whomp says:
Yep
Whomp says:
cubs swept today....anything you want to say?
Casey says:
k back
jb1964 says:
SWwept who?
Whomp says:
white sox
Whomp says:

jb1964 says:
I regret I had to hear that from you..
jb1964 says:
I would have much rather been totally obnoxious about it
Whomp says:
i nipped it in the bud
jb1964 says:
but it really doesn't matter, theey still suckj
Whomp says:
OK can we summarize?
Casey says:
yes lets do for slow me
Whomp says:
mono hasn't been researched
Whomp says:
by anyone
Casey says:
indeed
Whomp says:
feud and engineering have
jb1964 says:
The FC axis of dirtbags is goign lower teir
Whomp says:
right
Whomp says:
so after you finish mono and we finish feud
Whomp says:
you turn off research
jb1964 says:
OK
Whomp says:
we run hot on chiv
Whomp says:
Now I know it doesn't benefit you now
Whomp says:
but you're running cash
Casey says:
well that was my question, why we were going to mono, as i thought you said we should do mono, chivalry, and then theology. since we were probably going to get mono 2 turns later with the GLibrary, I was wondering. seems i confused everyone
Whomp says:
no
Casey says:
but it fits in with your timetable better right?
Whomp says:
i think feud and mono should be good in 5
Whomp says:
we can then run chiv ~5-6 right?
Whomp says:
in that timeframe Glib comes in
Casey says:
i dont know what your science capacity is, but probably sure
Whomp says:
ok so three techs in 10-11 turns
Whomp says:
then Glib pops
Casey says:
i didnt know you guys wanted knights so badly
Whomp says:
it would be nice to upgrade MWs
Whomp says:
We need to find some horses for you guys
Casey says:
indeed. ok so what turn do you want monotheism sent over?
Whomp says:
when you finish
Whomp says:
i think we're timed exactly
jb1964 says:
when we finish is variable
jb1964 says:
give us a turn and we'll put it into the plan
Casey says:
right but when will you get Feudalism so we can orchestrate scientists or taxmen better
Whomp says:
well it seems we need to turn down feud then...
Whomp says:
we could have it in 5
Casey says:
no i started mono this past turn
Whomp says:
full speed?
Casey says:
it showed 6 turns
Whomp says:
ok
jb1964 says:
but that can be accelerate?
jb1964 says:
d
Casey says:
yes it can
Whomp says:
I think the faster we roll the better we'll both be
jb1964 says:
brb, got to talk w/ the better half....
Casey says:
this is why i waited until the nth hour to play the turn, trying to get on the same page and i seemed to have rocked the boat needlessly
Casey says:
but no one had impressed the need for chivalry on me
Whomp says:
Sorry I may not have been clear
Whomp says:
there's no need for you I found out today
Whomp says:
i didn't realize you didn't have horses
Whomp says:
so we'll do it alone
Whomp says:
worst case is you can do KT if you want
Casey says:
no one had mentioned that we didnt have them so i looked (had the save open while i did all this post wedding stuff)
Whomp says:
if Glib fell through
Casey says:
well i dont think it will, if you guys string sabre along well enough
Whomp says:
they still haven't responded and don't have lit still
Casey says:
that sounds good
Whomp says:
they're missing contacts too iirc
Whomp says:
I think they've met Council and us
Casey says:
ah
jb1964 says:
But they're worthless to Council
Whomp says:
Zactly
Whomp says:
they made a big mistake going Ottos
Casey says:
well i wanted to apologize, dags seemed to be mad and everyone else, i only saw where wotan said research mono and wanted to know why in an effort to coordinate better
Casey says:
sabre's capital is size 7 with no growth
Whomp says:
that tells me they must be either at happy max or prebuilding?
Casey says:
well you would see their prebuild, i really dont know why
Whomp says:
happy max
Whomp says:
iirc there's two luxs per island?
Casey says:
yep
Whomp says:
maybe they're building a market with it
Casey says:
maybe
Casey says:
so you will have feudalism on turn 109?
Whomp says:
i think wotan said 5 turns
Casey says:
from last turn right?
Casey says:
not the current one he is playing?
Whomp says:
let me look real quick
jb1964 says:
Just check and let us know by next turn, we'll adjust
Whomp says:
just a fyi SABER still down MM, Constr., HBR, Lit and Mysticism
Whomp says:
We have 6 turns to Feudalism
Whomp says:
on last turn so 5 more
jb1964 says:
They are so frigging screwed it's not funny
Whomp says:
If we get the best and fastest boats first they sure are
jb1964 says:
So if you're 5 turns from now we can drop Mono on you 5 turns from now and that shold work just fine.
Whomp says:
that would be coordinated
Whomp says:
i will have wotan pm you speeds
Whomp says:
Case--what I mentioned to JB is Free or Council is going to have to run top half at some point
Whomp says:
they'll both be researching
Casey says:
yep
Whomp says:
we'll only need one of us to research
Casey says:
so mono on turn 110
Casey says:
or 109 so we can give it to you a turn early and you can still take off i guess
Whomp says:
The sooner you finish the sooner you go max cash
jb1964 says:
Hey Cane, when do we want Feud?
Casey says:
anytime is fine, it obsoletes the gallics
Whomp says:
we can wait if you'd prefer
Casey says:
i dont think it matters
Casey says:
MDI are pretty good as well
Whomp says:
Pikes too
Casey says:
so send over mono on turn 109? or 108?
Casey says:
just to be clear
jb1964 says:
The GS's are nice but they're not the critical unit here...
Whomp says:
Wotan just asked for a ETA. If we get it 108 then we can start chiv on 109
Casey says:
so you are doing feudalism in 4 turns
Whomp says:
from 104 it's 6 turns
Whomp says:
so 104, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9
Whomp says:
i'm struggling to even count
Casey says:
ok i guess that is feudalism in 5 turns
Casey says:
we do mono in 4 to send it on across
Whomp says:
ok then that sounds well timed
Whomp says:
then run cash
Casey says:
yes i think, quote think, we can do that schedule, we jsut have to turn a lot of scientists over to take it from 6 to 4 (and we lose our golden age in 4, which will be difficult to figure out)
Whomp says:
right
Casey says:
do you know when our golden age ends in pbem?
Whomp says:
20 turns
Whomp says:
same
Casey says:
yes but there is a bug
Whomp says:
on the IT?
Whomp says:
i can't remember how that happends
Casey says:
we end on turn 108 so does it calculate it before and we lose a turn?
Whomp says:
Eeesh

jb1964 has left the conversation.

Whomp says:
i tried searching it
Casey says:
well i will work it out, if we have to run a bazillion more scientists then so be it
Casey says:
to make sure
Casey says:
cause it also affects our lux slider
Whomp says:
Sorry for the confusion
Casey says:
did you invite jb back?

 

[Whomp]

Hah! It's raining GONG today. Here's a pm from Bugs and my response. Should we just tell them we're whacking them?

Hey POTKISS! Oh I mean Bernie!

After reading that last conversation that you had with our guys, I think our two teams need to prop up SABER. Otherwise the axis of evil is going to wipe them out in short order putting Babe and Gong at a distinct disadvantage.

what to you think/

Tom

Hi Bugs T!

Long time no talk!

I'm a little concerned about about helping them out. First, I'm trying to gather momentum to go in and whack them ourselves. They're pretty far behind and I'd rather not face them when they have Chamnix cranking out sipaphis. As well they already have 10 coastal cities so they're preparing for a naval oriented game. I'd rather beat them down than prop them up. I'll post your pm to see how people feel about it.

Bern Dog