Diplo for Team BABE

[jb1964]

I bent Whomp's ear over the Babe galley and asked for an explanation. He seemed to not know what Wotan was up to so I suggested they send the Galley about to keep an eye out for us.

I'll contact the Babes via gmail tomorrow and see what we get.

 

[RFHolloway]

Just a thought - are the Babes metagaming us? OK I am prepared to believe that Wotan threw a strop when his plans went astray - he has form for that. I do not believe that the calibre of the rest of the team just let him. What if this whole "we're going to give up" was some form of elaborate ploy.

Proceeding on this assumption we then have that the invasion would be a fake invasion, which would mean that they would actually be allied with the ones they are trying to invade.

I think the guys on Babe have the calibre to pull off a heavy deception like this, but I can't see what they would gain by it.

 

[Daghdha]

If it's a ploy and the pull it off I'll . Nevertheless I think that what we see is what we get here. I just cannot see Whomper and co backstabbing in that manner and I'd be if they did. What I would like to know is why they're sailing in our part of the pond w/o notifying us (because they haven't, right?). That is breaking the treaty:
No Gatecrashing
-Entering each others territory is prohibited unless the other part accepts the visit. Visitors are required to announce type and number of units before entering.

A lightbulb moment reveals the possible reason for doing this. Babes wants us to react in rage and declare the treaty void. That would open up for them to attack us "honorably". We might ask them politely if they believe our mutual agreement is in any way interfering with their current plans.
Edit: Looking at the treaty I get even more suspicious when reading this:
This treaty is valid from the date that both teams have sealed it.
It will last until both teams are the last ones standing.
This treaty can otherwise only be canceled if (1) both teams agree on doing so, or (2) if one side delibriatly violates it.

Number 2 can be what we're facing if Babes answers "Yes, we're by this canceling the treaty. That is correct".
I'd say block all the possible landing tiles immediately

 

[killercane]

Number 2 can be what we're facing if Babes answers "Yes, we're by this canceling the treaty. That is correct".
I'd say block all the possible landing tiles immediately

Good discussion. This is where it sucks to not have horses. To get units to the far coast from the core we have to have them built 6-8 turns ahead of time. Whipping them in the swamps sucks bc the troops will have to stay in cities to combat unhappiness and cant be deployed coastally.

 

[Daghdha]

The answer from Wotan says: Sorry absolut inte en tanke på något sådant, den är påväg hemåt efter att ha snurrat runt först Council och sedan FREE. Jag har totalt förbisett avtalet. Kan vi komma runt er ö i "seatiles" utan att gå in i ert territorium?, which means : Sorry, completely forgot about the treaty. We're on our way home after circling Council then Free. Can I pass your island on seatiles w/o crossing your territory?.
So by the looks of it, it's not intentional but a mistake. That would mean Babes cannot attack and then point to #2 and say they did it to end the treaty. To be sure I'd like GA/RM have their interpretation. If one of you read this, please have your say.

 

[RFHolloway]

sure - given that respose we just back date the invite - 1 galley in our territory to the extent that there are no suitable sea tiles for turns 120 to 125 (or whatever)

Then they certainly can't break the treaty under deliberate violation.

 

[jb1964]

I spoke to Whomp last night, Simon joined in also, and pointed out the infraction. He honestly had no idea what Wotan was up to and chalked it up to a mistake that he would follow up on.

Given the nature of our relationship I don't have a problem w/ the Babes skirting our territory.

I just don't see a big Whompian conspiracy here. If the Babes were aligned w/ F&C then we would already be dead. F&C are both looking to pull us in as protection against the Babes. And Saber knows that they're the +1 that makes the game 2+1 vs 2.

 

[Daghdha]

Another pm from Wotan stresses the fact that he himself, and not the team, is responsible for the mishap so I guess we're clear on that for now.
On diplomacy in general I think that now is the time to sit back and enjoy the view, have a nice chat with everyone, offer som Pyramid Beer and wait for someone to make an offer worth considering. If Babes are all good we're fine for now. If RF is right on "hidden" islands we might consider picking up the pace towards Astro. Can we start a pre-build for another cool wonder somewhere? Cop's?

 

[killercane]

Why dont we send some galleys along with the BABE galleys, loaded or not to spur tech trade? We can try to send 4, a couple should make it.

 

[jb1964]

Why dont we send some galleys along with the BABE galleys, loaded or not to spur tech trade? We can try to send 4, a couple should make it.

The Babes are landing on Council. Sending a few units isn't going to spur trade because it's Council, I think, that's the holder of the Free/Council brain trust in the lower tier.

However, asking to tag along would be interesting because we could ask for some nice maps to follow. And whatever units made it over there would give us a first hand accounting of the battle. Since we couldn't stack w/ the Babes I would send pikes to wander the mountains.

 

[killercane]

Yes Council holds the lower techs, Free the upper, hence they would need to trade to Free if Free feels threatened. Council if threatened they just go along with their plan.

 

[jb1964]

talk w/ Whomp...

We got a map showing the route to FREE and some interesting naval advice.

Spoiler :

jb1964 says:
The Axis of dirtbags just provided us w/ Theology... Education will be next unless we give them a reason to trade either by deception or force.
Whomp says:
wow, how?
jb1964 says:
well, the force would have to come from you....
jb1964 says:
deception would have to amount to signing some sort of treaty w/ them w/ every intention of breaking it.
jb1964 says:
Most of our guys wouldn't advocate deception
jb1964 says:
But it would be cool
Whomp says:
did you get it from GLib?
jb1964 says:
yes, GLib
Whomp says:
hmm
jb1964 says:
we're sitting on our lazy asses at the moment waiting for the big Babe shoe to drop
Whomp says:
hehe
Whomp says:
well it's coming soon
jb1964 says:
hey, killer's talking about sending some ships to join up w/ you. We'll lose 50% of what we send, or more, but he thinks it'll add to the idea that they need to swap techs.
Whomp says:
ok
Whomp says:
i like the idea of sending some stuff to Free
jb1964 says:
Gawd I would love to bang them like there was no tomorrow
jb1964 says:
Can you give any advice on best routs?
Whomp says:
sure
Whomp says:
Let me send a map
jb1964 says:
That would suffice...
Whomp says:
I wonder if our boat is nearby...let me look
jb1964 says:
Hey, just for your info... Saber doesn't know Free and Council won't give them the contact. We're thinking of giving it to them to generate a little goodwill. Any objections?
Whomp says:
Why won't council give contact?
Whomp says:
weird
jb1964 says:
I think council is trying to sell the contact and split the proceeds w/ free
Whomp says:
give it
jb1964 says:
They don't give a rat's butt about Saber
Whomp says:
give it
Whomp says:
loading
Whomp says:
here?
jb1964 says:
yes... tequila taking hold though
Whomp sends: (see Hall of Records for the map)
Whomp says:
right where our galley is
Whomp says:
i don't think it matters whether you end in ocean versus sea
Whomp says:
so the move from Stone Pony to ocean
jb1964 says:
sweet.... this could be fun
Whomp says:
survives to coast
Whomp says:
you need two turns to survive
jb1964 says:
we would have two turns in sea tiles. I'll post this in the Hall of Documents
Whomp says:
one getting to the coastal bridge
Whomp says:
and another from the bridge to Free
Whomp says:
i wish we could gift units
Whomp says:
There's an island they've taken to the NW of Numenor
Whomp says:
bigger
Whomp says:
could fit two-three cities
Whomp says:
they have one there now
jb1964 says:
man, you're really sitting pretty with those islands
jb1964 says:
I'm totally expecting those to be absolutely critical to the game
Whomp says:
i think so too
Whomp says:
we'll share believe me
Whomp says:
it's going to be a naval onslaught in this game
jb1964 says:
And to reiterate... you guys are total bastards for grabbing those lands! And I think it's fall down funny.
Whomp says:
carriers and bombers will be big
Whomp says:
Glight was THE wonder
jb1964 says:
It really was... we had an eye on it but you got there first
Whomp says:
it literally destroyed Saber's game
Whomp says:
seems they and everyone else knew we'd use it
Whomp says:
and will
Whomp says:
they need astro fast
jb1964 says:
that's the card we're trying to play w/ the others to spook them....
Whomp says:
you could also ship chain
Whomp says:
most important in my opinion
you could also ship chain
Whomp says:
most important in my opinion
Whomp says:
block the 3 sea tiles in front of the coastal bridge
Whomp says:
caravels are useless there
Whomp says:
they can't reach you if those are blocked
Whomp says:
caravels only attack with one so you can keep sending units if those are blocked

 

[jb1964]

This is worth a read....

I noticed this mail and though I do not speak for the team now i think it is safe to say that this will not go down nicely among BABEs. We only stayed in the game so as to possibly act as Kingmakers and sort of make sure you had a better than average chance at winning, We are going to wreak havok among Council in a few turns (hopefully) and have asked for an extension to talk things over about how to speed this up. One idea woudl be to ask you to build Galleys and GS/MI and send to FREE. In time for you to take the leap across from the resource island north to FREE we would transfer possession of The GLH so you can do it risk free. later, when our forces on Council islnad has expired to be a force to use we would sell our total assets for 1 gold or any price you find to be more reasonable.

But should SABER now enter the picture that sole purpose we percive will disappear so everything is put in a very awkward position I guess. We do not wish to have anything to do with them that is absolutely positively something i am sure about and feel I can say swithout any need to confer with the team. But should they be invited into teh warmth again it sure require a lot of discussions and please be advised the outcome might not be positive.

Wotan

EDIT: Please be advised SABER has recently traded with Council but they are a bunch of no-good-for-nothing's so why shouldn't they play dishonourably in this case????

Wotan

I got a similar PM from Whomp.

 

[RFHolloway]

What? I'm losing track of who hates who the most.

Babes hate saber and the council but like us

council and free don't seem to trust each other

this must be the reason I stay out of all the diplomacy stuff.

 

[RickFGS]

Council and Free are allies. Babe hates Saber, but cant land them so they must be thinking Free now...

Saber is becoming friends to Council, so in general:

Council does lower tech tree, Free does upper and Saber gets them the cash.

GONG & BABE vs COUNCIL & FREE & SABER in trades affairs.

 

[killercane]

Hmm BABE giving us TGL for some turns will work per the rules. We cant spare any scientists to build ships atm (or troops for that matter) but we can in a few turns. FREE land would be very nice. I dont think we can get a huge force together before Astro though, so gifting of TGL might not be that advantageous at this point.

 

[jb1964]

Does a change to Republic, go zero research, after Invention of course, and start buying an army make any sense whatsoever?

And it does make more sense to go after FREE but logistically it's easier for them to attack The Council.

If the Babes do gift us the GLight it does appear to be w/i the rules but I bet it won't be next time.

Let's get a countdown from the Babes and see what we can send to FREE and when. Even a pack of pikes running around the mountains and hills might be enough to keep them from helping The Council.

 

[killercane]

Gifting Leos to BABES might be most advantageous. We could then ask the BABErs to leave troops up here on our land and take up MP cost. Then republic would look much much better.

 

[jb1964]

Gifting Leos to BABES might be most advantageous. We could then ask the BABErs to leave troops up here on our land and take up MP cost. Then republic would look much much better.

That's the coolest idea. Hell, since it seems the Babes are thinking of bagging this wholesale and are interested in being kingmakers why don't we ask them to stay around for the duration. Keep a core of cities that will pump units and we'll take the rest of the lands and pump out culture at an alarming rate. I almost wish there was a way we could cross th finish line together.

 

[RickFGS]

Im a bit noob in this gifting Wonders stuff, you´re talking about giving possession of our level 12 city Dark Side of the Moon to BABE yes? for a couple turns or 1 turn so they can upgrade all units at once to cavalry.