Get Out Of The Noble Rut

[Menes]

As promised here, I'm starting a Prince game with the aim of getting some help to boost by ability to Prince level. This thread may come in handy for any others stuck in the Noble rut.

Anyone who can comfortably beat Prince is welcome to inform, suggest and generally divulge their wisdom upon me.

VERSION: Warlords 2.08 (Eeeek...nerfed CS Slingshot).
LEVEL: Prince
TERRAIN: Continents
SIZE: Standard
SPEED: Normal

Everything else is default...used "Play Now" as opposed to "Custom Game".

Due to my unfathomable interest in Egypt, I have chosen Ramesses II ("Powerful one of Maat, the Justice of Ra is Powerful, chosen of Ra, Ra bore him, beloved of Amun").

Leader and settings screenshots enclosed.

INDEX
Page 1 - 4000BC - Preturn Discussion
Page 2 - 4000BC To 2480BC

 

[Menes]

4000BC - Preturn Discussion
The starting screenshot is enclosed, as is the start save.

I am very happy with the starting prospects...this looks to be a good all-rounder. We have Corn and Cows in the immediate vicinity, and with Agriculture and The Wheel as our starting techs, we can get them hooked up fast. On a Noble game, I would build Worker>Worker>Warrior>Settler before starting to grow my first city. I can immediately hook up the corn for faster building of the second Worker and Settler.

Because we have Cows, my first research would be Animal Husbandry (we have Agriculture, remember), which will hopefully reveal nearby Horses for the Egyptian UU, the War Chariot which also require The Wheel (another starting tech). We should be able to take out a Civ fast here...assuming we're not alone on the continent.

So, to summarise my initial goals...

1. Settle in place.
2. Send the existing Warrior on a circular exploration around the initial city.
3. Build a Worker to hook up Corn for faster production of second Worker.
4. Research AH to reveal Horses and to allow Pasture on the Cows.
5. After second Worker built, build Warriors until size 2 growth, then work Corn and Cows and build Settler.
6. Use one Warrior as escort for Settler and second Worker to second city site...hopefully near Horses.

I'll play to this point after some discussion. If Horses aren't nearby, a rethink will be needed.

 

[DuseCutter]

Nice start. 2 food resources and 1 most likely 2 floodplains. Hills for production. I'd settle in place, see what that shows me and then move the warrior after settling.

 

[Menes]

That was a quick reply, and exactly what I plan to do (I may have edited the post whilst you were typing).

 

[Lao Tzu]

I'd settle in place & move warrior NW to reveal more tiles

 

[Eggolas]

Settle in place. Jungle to the south probably means exploration to the north with the warrior, but perhaps a scout will pop from the hut?

Cow requires AH, which also reveals the horses for your chariot. You have three food from the start. I'd start with a worker and head for AH as you've indicated.

 

[eric_]

I'd probably move the warrior southwest before settling to reveal more of the fat cross you'd get if you settle in place.

Probably won't change the fact that you should settle in place, but you never know. Another resource may show up across to the river that would make settling one tile south a good idea.

 

[lilnev]

Almost what I'd do, except I wouldn't build a second worker yet. He won't have much to do (besides roads, but they're a low priority). Worker-Warrior (while growing to size 2)-Settler would be my plan. After AH, probably Mining-BW.

peace,
lilnev

 

[patagonia]

So, to summarise my initial goals...

1. Settle in place.

Sounds fair enough - there's no way you can reveal any territory to the NW by scouting beforehand and it looks like a pretty strong start.

3. Build a Worker to hook up Corn for faster production of second Worker.
4. Research AH to reveal Horses and to allow Pasture on the Cows.

Worker first while researching AH is always a good opening for Egypt (my favourite civ, although I prefer Hatty as a leader). The most important thing about early AH as Egypt is that it reveals horses, which, if not in your starting territory, reveals the site for your second city ASAP. War chariots are an excellent early UU.

You probably don't need two workers straight off the bat, as Thebes won't grow quickly enough to take advantage of the tiles you're developing so you'll actually stunt your early growth. I'd be inclined to build one, pasture corn whilst building warriors (or sinking some hammers into a barracks if you've popped horses) and growing to size 2. Pasture cows (and hopefully horses) and get those hooked up, then build a settler at size 2 or 3, either returning the scouting warrior to escort it or quickly building another warrior/war chariot for that purpose. You can either build a second worker in the capital after you've sent the first with the settler, or have Memphis build a worker as its first build.

 

[eric_]

Oh yeah, I agree, I'd start with worker>warrior or even worker>barracks>warrior, not worker>worker.

 

[asabahi]

Why not build couple of wariors so your city can grow to pop 2 or 3 and than build one worker. I would go warrior, warrior, worker, warrior, settler, worker. Send 1 of the built warriors out to explore also (opposite direction of the intial warrior) and fortify the second and third built warrior. Than use both to escort the settler, incase you run into a bear. That is my usual path. You can also at this period of time research pottery and AH. Than go for mining and BW. Or you could go mining, BW, pottery, whip a granary, and than AH.
Also stick in mystiscm to run at least one priest to get the GP. Use GP to pop theology and Divine right latter.

 

[swimrr]

Building 2 workers right off the bat is counterproductive. Build a worker, have him farm the corn, link it up, by then you should have AH. Then send him to the cows while building a barracks after the 1st worker. Then get a military unit or two to help scout the area/protect from barbs. Hopefully find some horses and whip a settler. After you get AH go for mining/bronze which are a must on any lever prince or higher. Then perhaps pottery to set up a cottage on the FP and for a granary which will really help with your whipping (very important on prince +). The early coins will really help research in the long term.

Early aggression is key on higher levels, the largest advantage humans have over AI is war strategy.

Also, I'm not sure about the Divine Right above. It is generally a low priority tech and you can easily trade for it. It is good to let the AI have many different religions as it sparks tensions between them and causes them to war with each other. I'd skip going for an early religion, perhaps shoot for CoL/taoism. It will help you expand and you can always trade for Mono, etc. Priesthood is good if you want to do an Oracle shoot.

P.S. Nice pick on the leader, I just started my first game with Ramsses on Monarch and am loving it. Already sacked my nieghbor and those war chariots are an awsome UU, esp against those pesky barb axes. Already the tech leader and it's not even 100BC!

 

[Lao Tzu]

Building 1 worker seems to be the most efficient way:
There's food resources, hills and commerce-rich river tiles that should be improved ASAP, but one worker is enough for that. And after his completition i'd reccomend 1-2 warriors for exploring and then settler.

 

[petey]

I agree that two Workers is counter-productive. You're going to need the second one, but not right away, so you're better off building something else.

Build the first one and start hooking up the resources and then build a Warrior while your city is growing. Have your first Warrior explorer to the north while this is happening to open up the map so that you can see Horses when AH gets finished. If they don't show up, have the second Warrior head down south to check there, but there's Jungle, so there's more chance they'll be to the north. If you see the Horses, keep the second guy around for defense and have the first guy find the nearest AI.

Once the Warrior is done, start on a Settler so that you can have a second city to grab the Horses if they're not in your fat cross. Your Worker can pasture the Cows and then start building a road towards the second city and hook up the Horses.

Build a second Worker after the Settler and research towards BW. Chop/pop rush Barracks and Chariots and then attack whomever is next to you. You may not be able to take their cities right off the bat, but sitting around in their territory will stop them from doing anything and you'll be able to build up your army to take them down.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Early aggression is key on higher leves, the largest advantage humans have over AI is war strategy.

Prince isn't a higher level - you've got time to enjoy the opening.

Notes on the presentation:

1) Inline images will get better feedback than thumbnails.

2) 4000 BC should be in your index

Notes on the start:

1) Your opening analysis should be expanded to include an examination of your traits. Ramalamb is Spiritual and Industrious. So what does that mean?

2) If you settle in place, what sort of improvements do you foresee at your capital? What tiles will you be working when you hit your current happy cap?

3) You mentioned your Unique Unit - what about your unique building? Where is it in the tech tree? How will you take advantage?

4) Your worker will take 15 turns to build, if you settle in place and work one of the 3/1/0 tiles. It should take 5 turns to move to the corn (your best tile here) and farm it. If you want to do the cows next, it will take a turn to get there before you can start. So do you need Animal Loving 12 turns from now, or 21 turns from now?

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

I agree that two Workers is counter-productive. You're going to need the second one, but not right away, so you're better off building something else.

I thought this deserved a bit more expansion. Suppose you start Worker Worker Settler. What size is your city at that point? Right, size 1. So during that time you needed exactly one improvement - so your first worker cranks out a farm then goes for coffee, and when the second worker pops out your senior worker gets promoted to foreman and supervises the coffee break. This is not an effective use of your opening turns.

 

[FeedBack]

Ok, here we go! Another very good thread for a newbie!
I'm subscribing and will try most of the tactics on Noble, at home. I still cannot beat Noble. And this is much closer than the awesome tactics you guys do on Monarch and above games!
For you masters, please, I'd love if you could give us the most details you can... Like VoiceOfUnreason just did on the Animal Husbandry need...
Well, My one cent to the game... I never like Worker and/or Settler openings. I always rather get my capital to pop 2 before stopping growth with them...

Good luck and let's learn more!
Again, thanks for the thread, Menes!

 

[swimrr]

I never like Worker and/or Settler openings. I always rather get my capital to pop 2 before stopping growth with them...

There have been many threads on this. Some get very detailed and it is generally shown that building a worker first (given you have food resources nearby and can use them) will allow you city to grow much faster over a given number of turns. I believe 30 was used as an example. But don't build another worker or settler right away, build the first worker, perhaps a unit or two to scout/defend and maybe a barracks. Then go for your settler once you have 3ish population. Of course all of this is dependent on your starting location/leader/techs/resources. Which is why it is a good idea to post a thread like this so you can get input on each given situation.

 

[LosBlack]

wow, this thread got jumped on early while i was at lunch. add another vote for settle in place and build worker->warrior. i wouldn't build 2 workers back to back since it takes a while to research techs so they have things to do. another warrior can scout (my favorite option) or escort an upcoming settler. after that, see what you have in store on the map and choose another worker or a settler or barracks/chariots..

VoU knows what he's talking about in his posting recommendations, and you've got a great start (and a lot of interest). i especially agree with the advice to discuss most of the options presented by the peanut gallery in your posts, and tell us why or why not you're doing it. great way for all of us to learn and discuss.

let's see some more map!

 

[DuseCutter]

That was a quick reply, and exactly what I plan to do (I may have edited the post whilst you were typing).

I believe you are right. There are some new things there I didn't see before.

I agree with the others saying 1 worker and also worker first. I usually don't do worker first, but with the 2 food resources and the floodplains it makes sense. I'd also use VoU explanation about AH. maybe you can squeeze a tech in before AH since your worker won't be able to do anything anyway.

P.S. 1 other tip on starting positions is to take the screen shot with the settler selected so we can see what each tile produces. I usually don't remember what every combo. of tiles creates.