Ghost train explodes, devastates Quebec town

[Bowsling]

TBH that last sentence in the second quote reads like you are defending him, even if that wasn't what you meant.

 

[Evie]

One way or another, "no translator" shows that either

A)He had non intention of adressing the audience to beginn with
or
B)He had no intention of adressing them in their own language.

Any which way, the absence of a translator shows lack of respect, and is worthy of pointing out and chewing the man out about.

As for you not posting francophobic "speak white" stuff:

So it's not a "bit daft" for people who live in Canada to not even know English well enough to follow along, or ask someone who does speak English to explain what they couldn't comprehend?

Translation: English is the Language of the Land, and those who don't speak it have only themselves to blame if people don't adress them in their own language.

 

[Formaldehyde]

TBH that last sentence in the second quote reads like you are defending him, even if that wasn't what you meant.

That last sentence is a statement of fact taken directly from the article I posted. Some were indeed quite upset over it, and at least one continues to be:

Translation: English is the Language of the Land, and those who don't speak it have only themselves to blame if people don't adress them in their own language.

"Translation". If they want to listen in to the press ask someone who only speaks English some questions and don't understand some of the words that are said, simply ask someone who does speak English what they are talking about instead of acting like it is some sort of grave insult.

But I see you are continue to post Anglophobic "speak French" "stuff" despite me making it quite clear you are misrepresenting my actual opinions.

 

[Evie]

Where have I implied or stated that people are at fault for not speaking French?

Ohhhh, right, I haven't. As opposed to what you have done.

I've said one specific person, in one very specific set of circumstances, should have had a translator with him. These are hardly circumstances that apply to ordinary folk.

You've stated that as people living in Canada, it's their own problem if they don't understand English, and that they have no business complaining about it.

There's a difference. Trying to draw a false equivalence between the two as you're doing is just painfully ridiculous.

 

[bhsup]

So um, the engineer? Any updates? Is he being held by authorities? Any new statements?

 

[Formaldehyde]

Where have I implied or stated that people are at fault for not speaking French?

You mean when haven't you been incessantly complaining that the CEO didn't speak French or didn't bring along someone who did, while he was apparently only interested in covertly assessing the damage without anybody even noticing he was there due to his concerns over his own safety and welfare?

These are hardly circumstances that apply to ordinary folk.

Don't you think that pertains to my own statements as well?

So um, the engineer? Any updates? Is he being held by authorities? Any new statements?

Ironically, some are calling him a hero instead:

Train engineer: Hero or culprit of Canada rail disaster?

LAC-MEGANTIC (AFP) – As a raging inferno from an exploded train lit up the night sky and flames incinerated much of a Canadian town, a hero headed right into the danger.
He valiantly drove a piece of heavy machinery to ground zero of last Saturday's disaster, detached several oil-carrying rail cars that had not yet exploded and pulled them away, preventing the tragedy from becoming even worse.
But the train's engineer -- the individual hailed by some as the hero who saved the day -- also is accused by some as the culprit who caused the disaster.
The engineer, identified as Tom Harding, according to railway officials failed to properly set the train's brakes on the train.
That tragic oversight allowed the train to roll downhill and crash into this picturesque lakeside village near Montreal, leading to several explosions and a massive fire that incinerated the heart of the town.
Police fear 50 people have died as a result of the accident, with 20 confirmed dead and 30 still unaccounted for.
After racing downhill, the unmanned train flew off a curve in the track, igniting the massive inferno and several explosions.
Lac-Megantic residents who fled their homes gathered near the lake 500 meters (1,600 feet) from the tail-end of the train, watching their small town go up in flames and smoke.
Suddenly a piece of heavy machinery drove up, according to Jacques Gagnon, a town hall employee who lived several hundred meters from the devastated city center.
Gagnon thought at first that the heavy equipment was there to help fight the fire or clear building debris.
But he and a friend, Luc Vandewalle, were stunned to see the machine haul away eight or nine cars that were about to explode.
"Someone had gone to detach them," Gagnon said on the porch of his house, which he was forced to evacuate for some 30 hours.
"If they had exploded, the fire certainly would have spread to our neighborhood and our house probably would have been destroyed too," he said.
"Dressed like a fireman"
-------------------------
The head of the fire department, Denis Lauzon, said he has been informed of that night's heroics, but unable to confirm the identity of the person responsible.
"Whoever did it, I do not know," Lauzon said, adding that he gave orders to have his people look into the account. He said he knew of a nearby timber processing firm with a tractor capable of riding on a road or on rails and had asked to requisition it.
But Vanderwalle, who works at another lumber processing plant, says he saw everything.
He confirmed that the brave soul who raced toward the fire was indeed Harding, the now maligned driver of the train.
"He was dressed like a fireman. He went to get the machine and he detached the wagons," Vanderwalle said with certainty.
A member of the board of the American company that owned the train, Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway (MMA) told the newspaper La Presse that the train's engineer had indeed gone to see the firemen, borrowed gear, and taken control of the tractor, which he used to pull away the unexploded cars.
But MMA chairman Edward Burkhardt was not among those praising Harding as a hero. He alleged that the accident never would have happened if not for the engineer's fatal errors.
"He told us he did things the way they are supposed to be done," Burkhardt said, "but our feeling is that this is not true."
Gagnon still thinks Harding was brave to do what he did, although he acknowledged that the engineer might not have been motivated entirely by heroism.
"Maybe he did it out of a sense of guilt," he said.

 

[Evie]

Incessant. Riiiiiight.

Anyway. As to the engineer, he hasn't been arrested or accused of anything so far, except by the CEO of his company.

Local French-Cannadian medias seem unwilling to scapegoat him. We've had several articles depicting his actions during the fire (and calling him heroic - it's not "some" calling him a hero, it's pretty much the entire set of French-Canadian medias) and risking his life. We've also had many interviews with colleagues an dother engineer who say that while he almost must have made some mistake, they don't know how he possibly could have made any of the mistake that could have led to this. It also helps his portrayal that, in French-Canadian medias, the hero story came out first, BEFORE mr. CEO made his accusations.

Essentially, he's getting a very sympathetic portrayal in our media. Which may have to do with the fact that the only accusations we've seen against him so far, are the ones the CEO made. Since that was AFTER the CEO had first tried (and failed) to stick the blame to the local firemen, pretty much everyone in Quebec is maintaining a healthy dose of skepticism on that one.

In addition, A LOT of media attention is being paid to the laws that would make the company, or its higher ups, criminally responsible for teh whole thing (yes, it's a distinct legal possibility). Honestly I think most Quebecers would vastly prefer the investigation to put the blame on corporate practice and the higher ups at Montreal, Maine and Atlantics, than on the engineer. People probably wouldn't mind seeing him as a victim of the whole mess.

The investigation itself is still underway, no arrest and no accusation to date.

 

[bhsup]

Thing is, even if he did screw up and not set the brakes right or fail to do whatever that caused the train to begin moving, it surely wasn't done out of any sort of malice I wouldn't think. What I do find malicious is the CEOs comment of "Maybe he did it out of a sense of guilt." What I mean is the engineer could have failed to set something properly (which I'll just leave to the investigators to discover one way or the other) and still totally be a hero at the same time by way of his actions after the train started moving.

 

[civ_king]

Incessant. Riiiiiight.

Anyway. As to the engineer, he hasn't been arrested or accused of anything so far, except by the CEO of his company.

Local French-Cannadian medias seem unwilling to scapegoat him. We've had several articles depicting his actions during the fire (and calling him heroic - it's not "some" calling him a hero, it's pretty much the entire set of French-Canadian medias) and risking his life. We've also had many interviews with colleagues an dother engineer who say that while he almost must have made some mistake, they don't know how he possibly could have made any of the mistake that could have led to this. It also helps his portrayal that, in French-Canadian medias, the hero story came out first, BEFORE mr. CEO made his accusations.

Essentially, he's getting a very sympathetic portrayal in our media. Which may have to do with the fact that the only accusations we've seen against him so far, are the ones the CEO made. Since that was AFTER the CEO had first tried (and failed) to stick the blame to the local firemen, pretty much everyone in Quebec is maintaining a healthy dose of skepticism on that one.

In addition, A LOT of media attention is being paid to the laws that would make the company, or its higher ups, criminally responsible for teh whole thing (yes, it's a distinct legal possibility). Honestly I think most Quebecers would vastly prefer the investigation to put the blame on corporate practice and the higher ups at Montreal, Maine and Atlantics, than on the engineer. People probably wouldn't mind seeing him as a victim of the whole mess.

The investigation itself is still underway, no arrest and no accusation to date.

The man risked his life to save lives and property, that looks very good in the media. The company should have apologized for the catastrophe and then stepped in immediately to help out instead of pointing fingers.


It's crazy he didn't have a translator, the ability of rural Quebecers to speak English is generally rather limited so how does he expect to do much of anything being incapable of communicating with the townsfolk?

 

[Atticus]

Moderator Action: The tangent on the language issue stops here.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Thing is, even if he did screw up and not set the brakes right or fail to do whatever that caused the train to begin moving, it surely wasn't done out of any sort of malice I wouldn't think. What I do find malicious is the CEOs comment of "Maybe he did it out of a sense of guilt." What I mean is the engineer could have failed to set something properly (which I'll just leave to the investigators to discover one way or the other) and still totally be a hero at the same time by way of his actions after the train started moving.

Only it wasn't the CEO who said it.

 

[Evie]

Guilt may not be the best word to express that sentiment, but the idea that he might have acted because he felt responsible for what was happening is fairly reasonable. EVEN if he did everything properly, it was still his train, and he was still probably the last person who had a shot at averting the catastrophe. People have felt responsible over far less.

That does not equate criminal guilt or even legal responsibility, of course.

Edited to add: residents of Lac-Mégantic have requested leave for a class action lawsuit against the Montreal, Maine and Atlantic railway. Everybody saw that coming.

Edited to remove: just remembered the painfully strict bad words rule here.

 

[bhsup]

Only it wasn't the CEO who said it.

Whoops, you're right. Totally misread the last part of that article. Thanks for catching that for me.

 

[emzie]

Guilt may not be the best word to express that sentiment, but the idea that he might have acted because he felt responsible for what was happening is fairly reasonable. EVEN if he did everything properly, it was still his train, and he was still probably the last person who had a shot at averting the catastrophe. People have felt responsible over far less.

If he did make a mistake, his mistake was magnified to horrific proportions by MMA's rules of operation.

I was reading in the paper today about different lawyers ambulance chasing for this. I rather enjoyed the firm in Chicago who were like, "hey guys... Illinois doesn't have a cap for wrongful death suits."

 

[Evie]

In another somewhat amusing note, the general feeling on the ground so far appears to be that Augusta (ie, the state of Maine) has done more and better for the people of Lac Mégantic and in response to the catastrohpe than Ottawa.

The ball, Stephen. You dropped it.

 

[dutchfire]

Maybe Quebec can join the US? That'd change the calculus of the House a lot.

 

[Cutlass]

In another somewhat amusing note, the general feeling on the ground so far appears to be that Augusta (ie, the state of Maine) has done more and better for the people of Lac Mégantic and in response to the catastrohpe than Ottawa.

The ball, Stephen. You dropped it.

What did Maine do?

 

[Zelig]

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/07/17/mma-railway-lays-off-staff-after-quebec-train-disaster/

Fewer of those pesky employees to cause future cock-ups like this.

 

[civ_king]

In another somewhat amusing note, the general feeling on the ground so far appears to be that Augusta (ie, the state of Maine) has done more and better for the people of Lac Mégantic and in response to the catastrohpe than Ottawa.

The ball, Stephen. You dropped it.

You can join America if you want, I'm sure the American Cajuns would love it.

 

[Ajidica]

You can join America if you want, I'm sure the American Cajuns would love it.

On the incorporation of Quebec into America, I'm torn between my dislike of the French and my desire to see Canada become part of America.