Giants

[nutranurse]

So I have read the FFH Bestiary and that does not have much information on these larger-than-life beings, so I will ask here.

What, exactly, are Giants? Are they a product of the Age of Magic(?) via some wizards enlarging humans? Are they the creation of a specific deity? (Kilmorph?)

Roughly, how intelligent are they? Were they more intelligent at some point and then overtime descended into the barbarous creatures that they are now?

Have there been Giant societies in the past? Is it even possible for them to live in such communities or are they solitary beings?

Have they ever wielded magic themselves or are they stuck to using clubs and boulders?

Any and all information would be appreciated!

 

[Valkrionn]

Just said some of this in the Jotnar thread in the RifE forum, but I'll answer here as well.

First off, this is not entirely canon. Trying to stick to what I remember of the lore on Giants (The little there is), and accommodate the Jotnar.


There are at least two possible origins for Giants, and honestly, they are not exclusive.

1. They were created during the Godswar. We know this is how Ice Giants were created, but I'm not sure if normal giants were similar or not.
2. They were originally Men, and this one has two possible methods:
   • They are results of magical experiments during the Age of Magic.
   • They are the result of a group of people venerating a particular god over all others.

Given the fact that the Jotnar are able to interbreed with the children of Nemed, I'm fairly sure they'd be results of option number 2. The first choice is still very possible though, as mages could well have been imitating the Gods.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Frost Giants are definitely creations of Mulcarn. Actually, I seem to recall them being made as part of a pure-ice world Mulcarn created before Dagda brought the gods together to create Erebus. Thus it would seem they were not created for the Godswar, but were certainly used during it.

Sirona is known to have made some "Titans" to fight against Aeron during the Godswar. (Ok, technically we don't know that she made them, but they did serve her. The term titan evokes an image of immense physical size and strength, which make me wonder if maybe they were originally creations of Aeron whom Sirona led to repent their evil ways.) They are depicted as marching in a Phalanx, which would require more intelligence and organization than more common giants possess.


The Bestiary lists Hill Giants under Creations of Men; Perversions of Life. Most things in that section are creations of Patrian mages using Life magic, but it also includes beings like Cambions (mortals with some demonic parentage), Aasimar(mortals with some angelic parentage), Shades (made in the Age of Rebirth using Laroth's spirit magic), Vampires (made likely in the Age of Dragons using the teachings of Ceridwen), and twisted men (which I think may just be a general term for the disfigured and sometimes mutated bands of destitute rabble such as those enslaved by the Burnt Priest).


I'd guess Hill Giants are creations of Patrian mages, although I'm not sure whether to say they were made from men or merely trying to emulate men. I know of nothing saying that they used to be more intelligent than they are now.

Ettins are hill giants that were given 2 heads, but are no smarter.

Theoretically only those with a divine spark can use magic to some degree, and the divine spark comes from descent through Nemed. However, Os-Gabella, Djinni, and several of Ceridwen's creations have the power to use magic despite not being the physical descendant of a god. it seems true angels and demons do to. Perhaps a divine spark can be given or made in another way, but that from Nemed is somehow a purer, more direct connection to The One.

If Giants are descended from men they can probably use a little magic, but I doubt many would be very good at it.



I vaguely recall a thread asking questions like this before, in which Kael said he did not know the answer.

 

[Rainbowsand]

Some things like "Staedding" and "traditions" are clearly pointing that "Jotnar" are in fact looted ogir from Jordan's Wheel of Time. Their peaceful lighty soundtrack only confirms that as Jotuns from you know what were generally violent and warlike brutes. So you can scan those 11 (or may be already much more, i did not counted them last few years) 600-page tomes for quite an ample lore on these beings a.k.a. The Builders.

On giants in general i did found this interesting:
http://www.churchisraelforum.com/giants_in_the_land.htm
A lots of nonsense, as always in such sources (because its crap or just because im stupid i cannot quite discern) but main idea on their origins is formulated well.
Its integration into FfH is up to Kael i think

 

[Valkrionn]

Some things like "Staedding" and "traditions" are clearly pointing that "Jotnar" are in fact looted ogir from Jordan's Wheel of Time. Their peaceful lighty soundtrack only confirms that as Jotuns from you know what were generally violent and warlike brutes. So you can scan those 11 (or may be already much more, i did not counted them last few years) 600-page tomes for quite an ample lore on these beings a.k.a. The Builders.

On giants in general i did found this interesting:
http://www.churchisraelforum.com/giants_in_the_land.htm
Its integration into FfH is up to Kael i think

They may have been inspired from those books; That does not mean they are ripped word for word from them, and under one of the leaders are quite peaceful. Again, don't read too much into similarities from outside sources unless you yourself are making the mod.

 

[Rainbowsand]

Theoretically only those with a divine spark can use magic to some degree

Ow. I always thought that using magic does looks like plug a channel and roll on... also spell scrolls... a FfH specifics?

Addition: just found that`

Arcane magic is used by mages manipulating the power of magic. Although this is taught to them by the Goddess Ceridwen, mages do not need her do perform magic. This magic is channeled by the user's divine spark. It is technically known by few because the mage guilds are very selective.

Divine magic is the power of the Gods. Priests can pray to the gods who may aid them with magic but priests can't do magics without the gods.

The gods are the most powerful beings that were ever created. (They are actually the angels of The One). They alone can access the infinite elemental plains and have nearly limitless power.

"Anyone can do magic. The problem is how to get away with that" Terry Pratchett

Divine spark... A.k.a. soul? Not equals to the ghost - the sidar case... Definitions, definitions...

 

[Rainbowsand]

They may have been inspired from those books; That does not mean they are ripped word for word from them, and under one of the leaders are quite peaceful. Again, don't read too much into similarities from outside sources unless you yourself are making the mod.

The Hamster commands me and I obey. At least till next opportunity and/or before ban. Was that somehow a spoiler? Oh, btw, most clear definition of lore ripping i've found in the Sword of Stars, and that's precisely what i see here - to rip most juicy parts from other story, to paint it FfH a bit and then to stuff in game. Wildmana currently is such a motley assortment lacking integration, that i had moved into Orbis. And thats why many like it - a bits of things that they had loved before plus some divine/daemonic presence.
My arrogance becomes annoying - you ban me - all are happy
And meanwhile, this is Kael's domain, not Hamster's.

 

[Opera]

All works are inspired by something else. Can't really say stuff are directly ripped into FFH though

 

[Rainbowsand]

All works are inspired by something else. Can't really say stuff are directly ripped into FFH though

Now it is i am who confused. "To rip" in Webster definition explained as "to tear" and "to split apart". Applying it to FfH does means that modders have found interesting pieces in many other books or vids or games then brought them into "FfHErebus" and integrated into the common plot. That's what exactly rippers do, both those working with the dvds and kangaroos from SotS. (I do not talking Kael here - he may have really had a vision) Thats what does make FfH so good - a many (some even working) pieces from another realms upon the Civ4 engine that gives plenty of the time to contemplate upon them while still providing minor exercise for the mind.

 

[Valkrionn]

Her point is that modders do not go out, find a background they like, and port it unchanged to Erebus.

If we find a background we like, we may use the general idea; It will be completely rebuilt to fit Erebus, however. Nothing is 'ripped', nothing is 'a piece of another realm'; There will be similarities (Fantasy has been done too often to avoid similarities) but it will never be the same thing.

 

[Rainbowsand]

Well, often you are unsuccesful at that; while some things are indeed stained and chewed into nonsense, many other are but renamed or even left unchanged - like fabled Disciples icons from RifE
But, seriously, you are but creating chimaeras or, better analogy, flesh golems from (sometimes roughly) sewn together pieces of myths, and legends, and modern writings, sometimes even without properly corrupting them or checking the mythology canons for Erebus a.k.a. Eridis. The steampunk Mechanos are a good example. In many of modmods the grim, daemonic athmosphere got dispersed because of carelessly tossed soundtracks, disciple icons and another settings dwellers. Wildmana got boggled in pretty complicated interfaces and the hordes of BUGs, Orbis have most dissonant sdtrack selection, RifE completely lost spirit of the game, permeated by OmniHamster (an excellent selection of starting screen, completely negating those bad feelings that loading screen used to create) and all is bad and will get worse until inevitable collapse. The FfH is DOOMED!!! We all shall die...

Oh, btw: another fine story... There is a game, Mass Effect with number 2, which is a shameful example of consent of great people from Bioware to the "opinions" and "requests" from forums... Some of its pieces are literally stink of those fools, disrupting flow of game and causing it to leak.