Gibson Factory Raided

GamezRule

Inconceivable!
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Last week federal marshals raided the Gibson Guitar Corporation in Tennessee. It wasn't the first time. The government appears to be preparing to charge the famous builder of instruments with trafficking in illegally obtained wood. It's a rare collision of music and environmental regulation.

In the hottest part of an August Tennessee day last Thursday, Gibson Guitar CEO Henry Juszkiewicz stood out in the full sun for 30 minutes and vented to the press about the events of the day before.

"We had a raid," he said, "with federal marshals that were armed, that came in, evacuated our factory, shut down production, sent our employees home and confiscated wood."

The raids at two Nashville facilities and one in Memphis recalled a similar raid in Nashville in November 2009, when agents seized a shipment of ebony from Madagascar. They were enforcing the Lacey Act, a century-old endangered species law that was amended in 2008 to include plants as well as animals. But Juszkiewicz says the government won't tell him exactly how — or if — his company has violated that law.

"We're in this really incredible situation. We have been implicated in wrongdoing and we haven't been charged with anything," he says. "Our business has been injured to millions of dollars. And we don't even have a court we can go to and say, 'Look, here's our position.'"

The U.S. Justice Department won't comment about the case it's preparing, but a court motion filed in June asserts Gibson's Madagascar ebony was contraband. It quotes emails that seem to show Gibson taking steps to maintain a supply chain that's been connected to illegal timber harvests.

Andrea Johnson, director of forest programs for the Environmental Investigation Agency in Washington, says the Lacey Act requires end users of endangered wood to certify the legality of their supply chain all the way to the trees. EIA's independent investigations have concluded that Gibson knowingly imported tainted wood.

"Gibson clearly understood the risks involved," says Johnson. "Was on the ground in Madagascar getting a tour to understand whether they could possibly source illegally from that country. And made a decision in the end that they were going to source despite knowing that there was a ban on exports of ebony and rosewood."

Gibson vigorously denies these allegations, maintaining that all of its purchases from Madagascar have complied with U.S. and Malagasy law. A company attorney says Gibson has presented documents to support that claim and that the recent raid seized legally obtained wood from India. He adds that the company stopped importing wood from Madagascar in 2009.

Chris Martin, Chairman and CEO of the C.F. Martin Guitar Co. in Nazareth, Pa., says that when he first heard guitars built from Madagascar rosewood, he dreamed it might be the long-sought substitute for Brazilian rosewood, whose trade was banned in the 1990s due to over-harvest. Then the situation in Madagascar changed.

"There was a coup," Martin says. "What we heard was the international community has come to the conclusion that the coup created an illegitimate government. That's when we said, 'Okay, we can not buy any more of this wood.'"

And while some say the Lacey Act is burdensome, Martin supports it: "I think it's a wonderful thing. I think illegal logging is appalling. It should stop. And if this is what it takes unfortunately to stop unscrupulous operators, I'm all for it. It's tedious, but we're getting through it."

Others in the guitar world aren't so upbeat. Attorney Ronald Bienstock says the Gibson raids have aroused the guitar builders he represents because the Lacey Act is retroactive. He says they're worried they might be forced to prove the provenance of wood they acquired decades ago.

"There hasn't been that moment where people have quote tested the case. 'What is compliance? What is actual compliance? How have I complied?' We're lacking that."

He's even warned clients to be wary of traveling abroad with old guitars, because the law says owners can be asked to account for every wooden part of their guitars when re-entering the U.S. The law also covers the trade in vintage instruments.

Nashville's George Gruhn is one of the world's top dealers of old guitars, banjos and other rare stringed instruments. "It's a nightmare," he says. "I can't help it if they used Brazilian rosewood on almost every guitar made prior to 1970. I'm not contributing to cutting down Brazilian rosewood today."

Gruhn acknowledges that the government has tried to create exemptions to cover vintage instruments. But he says they are rife with delays and to play it safe he's nearly eliminated the 40% of his business that used to deal with overseas buyers. "This is a new normal," says the EIA's Andrea Johnson. "And it takes getting used to."

Johnson defends the Lacey Act and the government's efforts to enforce it. "Nobody here wants this law to founder on unintended consequences," she says. "Because ultimately everybody understands that the intent here is to reduce illegal logging and send a signal to the markets that you've got to be asking questions and sourcing wood in a responsible way."

What constitutes that responsible way may only become clear when the government finally charges Gibson and the company gets the day in court it says it wants so badly.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/...n-guitar-was-raided-by-the-justice-department

Personally I find this to be this an appalling and ridiculous overextension of the government's reach, but that might just be the guitarist in me speaking.

In a slightly unrelated note, Fox New's was pointing out that the owner of Gibson is a Republican and Gibson isn't unionized. :rolleyes:
 
Wow...just...wow.... My dad plays guitar, and I believe he has a Gibson.

That Gruhn guy, and people like him should not be charged with wrongdoing for guitars made that way before this problem came into existence.

Actually, he's playing guitar right now.
 
First of all, they haven't broken any part of that law at all, so any legal action is unfounded. It's like the UN punishing Modern America for the sake of the Native Americans, or Turkey for the sake of the Armenians, or Germany for the sake of the gypsies.
 
I dont have much trust in the government when they are this secretive over a case. Also, its ridiculous that old guitars could get destroyed or confiscated over this.
 
The worst part is that I would assume they would just trash it.

I dont know if that is the worst part, or if the worst part is it could be perfectly legal wood but since the bureaucratic paperwork wasnt perfect they will be punished over it.
 
Saw this on the news today. Apparently it's a problem with indian rosewood (not madagascar ebony) and it's illegal to import the wood as unfinished wood, but legal to import it as finished necks, which is really just the addition of frets and some adornments.

So it's legal to import the wood if someone in another country did the work of building the neck, but illegal if someone here did the work. Umm, WTH.

I also know there's a big question over why Gibson is being targeted and not the other major guitar manufacturers that use the same woods.
 
Just let them try to confiscate my wood! :mad:
 
http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/...n-guitar-was-raided-by-the-justice-department

Personally I find this to be this an appalling and ridiculous overextension of the government's reach, but that might just be the guitarist in me speaking.

In a slightly unrelated note, Fox New's was pointing out that the owner of Gibson is a Republican and Gibson isn't unionized. :rolleyes:
Idiotic government being idiotic. What's new?

Saw this on the news today. Apparently it's a problem with indian rosewood (not madagascar ebony) and it's illegal to import the wood as unfinished wood, but legal to import it as finished necks, which is really just the addition of frets and some adornments.

So it's legal to import the wood if someone in another country did the work of building the neck, but illegal if someone here did the work. Umm, WTH.

I also know there's a big question over why Gibson is being targeted and not the other major guitar manufacturers that use the same woods.
But the major problem is: Why take away the already made guitars?

Just let them try to confiscate my wood! :mad:
Actually, the government considers it nature's wood, which we stole. So the government is going to take away the stolen goods. :rolleyes: Did I ever tell you how idiotic the government is?
 
Saw this on the news today. Apparently it's a problem with indian rosewood (not madagascar ebony) and it's illegal to import the wood as unfinished wood, but legal to import it as finished necks, which is really just the addition of frets and some adornments.

So it's legal to import the wood if someone in another country did the work of building the neck, but illegal if someone here did the work. Umm, WTH.

I also know there's a big question over why Gibson is being targeted and not the other major guitar manufacturers that use the same woods.

I don't know much on this sort of thing, but my guess on why it's illegal to import unfinished wood would be for fear of bringing over some sort of mold or bugs present in the wood that isn't native to the United States. I would like to hear from someone that knows more about these sorts of regulations.
 
I dont have much trust in the government when they are this secretive over a case.

Andrea Johnson, director of forest programs for the Environmental Investigation Agency in Washington, says the Lacey Act requires end users of endangered wood to certify the legality of their supply chain all the way to the trees. EIA's independent investigations have concluded that Gibson knowingly imported tainted wood.

"Gibson clearly understood the risks involved," says Johnson. "Was on the ground in Madagascar getting a tour to understand whether they could possibly source illegally from that country. And made a decision in the end that they were going to source despite knowing that there was a ban on exports of ebony and rosewood."

Yea... they're really being so secretive. That evil, secretive government.
 
Idiotic government being idiotic. What's new?


But the major problem is: Why take away the already made guitars?

That's just one of the questions being raised. This is a puzzling case that the government so far has refused to comment on. Why are they going after Gibson and Gibson only? Why are they interested in putting people out of work, when if it were Indians who did the work the wood would be perfectly legal? What is it about Gibson that they want to make them an example, and an example of what?

This is the CEO of Gibson's own words in response to this; make of it what you will:


Link to video.

EDIT: Read an interesting comment on another forum regarding this topic. It said something to the effect of "Our government believes someone who crosses the border illegally can stay, but pieces of wood it deems are illegal (even though they were legal enough that India allowed their export and customs allowed their import here) have to be seized and people have to lose wages and possibly their jobs over it"
 
It seems pretty clear to me. They knew rosewood and ebony were banned from these sources. They illegally bought rosewood and ebony anyway. They didn't have the necessary paperwork that showed their rosewood and ebony didn't come from banned sources.

http://www.furnituretoday.com/artic...raises_attention_on_Lacey_Act_enforcement.php

"We've told our guys almost ad nauseam that if you are importing lumber into the United States you've got to comply with the Lacey Act. Really it's not where you manufacture the goods, it's where the tree was harvested," Perdue said.

"You just can't say pine. You've got to be able to identify the genus and the species of the wood and the point of harvest. So it's sort of a two-edged sword. Both of those are required in the certificate that comes over with the furniture and it's by article so it gets pretty tedious."

So how exactly isn't that intentionally violating laws which they clearly knew existed and violated anyway?

It wasn't even the first raid:

The Aug. 24 raid was the second high-profile Lacey Act action by federal authorities on wood imports and also, conspicuously some say, the second to take place at Gibson Guitar's Nashville facilities. Several pallets of wood, electronic files and guitars were seized.
 
It seems pretty clear to me. They knew rosewood and ebony were banned from these sources. They illegally bought rosewood and ebony anyway. They didn't have the necessary paperwork that showed their rosewood and ebony didn't come from banned sources.

http://www.furnituretoday.com/artic...raises_attention_on_Lacey_Act_enforcement.php



So how exactly isn't that intentionally violating laws which they clearly knew existed and violated anyway?
Actually, the wood was not banned at the time of production. The government just made a ruling recently that takes away the wood that was used before the production of the guitars, as well as after. With that in mind, the government could decide to ban iron, then confiscate all iron in people's houses.
 
From this article: http://www.furnituretoday.com/artic...raises_attention_on_Lacey_Act_enforcement.php

The seizure was based on an alleged violation of India's Foreign Trade Policy provisions related to export and import of goods and services, according to a federal search warrant application posted on the site of WTVF 5, a Nashville-based CBS affiliate.

According to the CEO they were not in violation of India's Foreign Trade Policy provisions. He might be lying of course, but according to him they did have all the paperwork. The wood left India legally and went through customs just fine.

As this case gets more and more popular the DOJ will look worse and worse, and Gibson will get a ton of support. They are trying to make an example of Gibson, and it's going to have negative consequences.

I'll just say it: Don't they have drug dealers to go after?

Like someone on another forum said: Our goverment thinks someone who crosses the border illegally should be able to stay, but if someone tries to bring in wood they deem is illegal, watch out they'll confiscate it and put people out of work.
 
I'll just say it: Don't they have drug dealers to go after?
That was something that needed to be said.

Like someone on another forum said: Our goverment thinks someone who crosses the border illegally should be able to stay, but if someone tries to bring in wood they deem is illegal, watch out they'll confiscate it and put people out of work.
So true. Of all the things for our government to worry about, it's going to focus on pieces of wood.
 
That was something that needed to be said.


So true. Of all the things for our government to worry about, it's going to focus on pieces of wood.

We don't even know if this wood is illegal either. It's the DOJ saying it is, and that's according to some Indian law they say was violated. But if that law was violated, why did India allow it to begin with? That's what the CEO was basically saying.

Something's fishy here. Either Gibson is trying to cover something up, or the DOJ is targeting them for a reason they won't admit to.

Plus, this is Gibson. They're a beloved American icon. In the court of popular opinion they will win, and that means some politicians will fall in the backlash. Unless it's proven beyond a doubt that Gibson illegally imported endagered wood (it would have to be endangered or something, because people will not care about this obscure act that nobody even heard about until this), this will end badly for some politicians. Who exactly I don't know, but the current administration does not need any more reasons for people to be angry with it.
 
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