GK2- The Training Day Experiment

[Turner]

Originally posted by mad-bax
As you say, the current location is wet and productive, so why move? <It's a question, not an opinion>

Personally, I don't like moving my first settler. However, in this case, one move to the N/NW might be better. Tough decision, tho. I'd probably go to the N, so I can get the cattle immediately.

 

[scoutsout]

Cool... it looks like the minds are starting to meet. I think a 4-turn settler factory will be a lot of fun in the land grab. If we can settle a high-shield unit-making site for our 2nd or 3rd city we should be able to crank out enough units to keep the cities protected. Wondering about those floodplains as a place to make workers...

Assuming Shogun is right about the wine/food/despotism math (it looks right to me), we'll have Cracker's magic "5 bonus food" and a 4-turn settler factory.

Would one of you destructors mind posting a little protocol before the saved game is posted? For those of us that haven't played a SG before... what year do you want our games saved? Anything special we should know about logfiles? (I hate to be a pest about this, but I'm a total noob to SGs... Thanks in advance...)

And... is 10 turns really enough?

 

[mad-bax]

shoguntaka: In the 21 tile X that you found your city, each tile has a value. The highest valu tiles must be worked all the ttime. In this case our highest value tile is the cattle. so this must be worked every turn or we waste it. If the cattle is irrigated and we work grass with all our citizens then the city will make +4 food. If we move a citizen to the forest we make +3 food.

If we want to make a unit and a settler every 6 turns, what is the best way to make as many shields as possible.

Well, firstly running a 7-5 pattern, and secondly choosing the most shield rich site for the capital.

Irrigated wine in despotism is the same as irrigated floodplain (+3 food). If you settle NW then you have a floodplain in your radius. So is the wine any more useful than the floodplain?

EDIT:

AS regards SG's, all you need to remember is that the 4000BC save is turn 0 and turn 20 is 3000BC. Normally the first turn is played to the end of the 3000BC turn.

Since you are all going to play the opening it is not necessary for everyone to play the same way. Some may settle on the spot and some might opt for a 6 or a 4 turn settler factory. It would be interesting to see which approach gives the most powerful position at 1000BC that's for sure.

 

[scoutsout]

If you settle NW then you have a floodplain in your radius. So is the wine any more useful than the floodplain?

Um - the only FP I see near the NW capitol site would be off the western corner...not a workable tile from the site NW of the settler's current location... I saw what looked like a desert tile, did I mistake a floodplain for desert?

 

[mad-bax]

Sorry you're right. Which is good because I thought I had made a mistake and the wine was not necessary.

I wish I could turn my pictures on at work ... just a bit too risky

 

[scoutsout]

I wish I could turn my pictures on at work ... just a bit too risky

Which is good because I thought I had made a mistake

...so you thought you made a mistake, and then discovered you were wrong?

 

[mad-bax]

Yeah... depending on the way you look at it I was either right all along or wrong twice... I'm a glass half empty kind of person personally

I don't know which smiley you used in your post, but I will find out tonight...

 

[Sir Bugsy]

A few rules for SGs:

1. Don't use city governors.
2. Don't use go-to orders for any units
3. Don't automate workers
4. Make sure you enable the "wait at end of turn" option in your game preferences
5. On the last turn you will save before hitting enter. It is usually good form to not rush any builds, execute any deals, start a war, or MM any of your cities on the last turn. Leave that for the next player.
6. Keep a turn log. Remember that other people are going to read this log so try and make it readable. I usually try a put as much readable detail in as possible. I will always put my reasoning behind any decisions that I make. That way the team can see why I did something.
7. At the end of your turn log, always make a post turn report. Let the next person know about anything that is coming up, any actions that are halfway done. There is nothing worse than getting a save and seeing something and wondering "Why is that there?" It is usually a good idea to start writing your port turn report while you are playing. "There is a galley northwest of city X with a settler and a spear in it. I was intending on taking it to that spot south of Y with the cow."

I'd like to make one more point and then we'll cut the students loose. Remember when you are exploring that you want to uncover as many tiles as possible with each move. If you are on flat land, that means moving orthogonally (north, south, east, and west). If you can reach a hill or a mountain, that is also a good idea, since that will maximize your visibility.

So here is what I would like each student to do. Download the game and play until 3500 BC. While you are playing keep a detailed turn log. "Moved scout E-W to hill, started irrigating spices, changed the citizens in the city so that I get 7 shields, and 2 gold, etc.."

At the end of you turns at 3500 BC, take a screen shot that is zoomed out and post it, along with your turnlog and your saved game file. If you have anyquestions on how to upload stuff, post pictures and stuff, there is a very good explanation stickied at the top of The SG page.

Remember, we're not looking for perfection, we are trying to learn. Above all, have fun.

EDIT - PLEASE DON'T READ ANY FURTHER THAN THIS UNTIL YOU HAVE PLAYED AND POSTED.

 

[scoutsout]

Thanks for that post SB. Now from here, does MB finish "Turn Zero" and post a new save or do we all download the original savegame and duplicate the moves that have been made to this point?

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Just download the original save and duplicate the two moves that were made.

 

[shoguntaka]

[0]
Moved worker N,
scout N-W,
Setter NW

[IBT]
Nothing

[1]
Moved scout, W-S to the hills
Settled our capital, Salamanca, and set its production to scout,
set researching on BW at 0%,
ordered worker to road the BG he's standing on

[IBT]
Nothing

[2]
Moved scout W-W

[IBT]
Nothing

[3]
Scout NW to the hill

[IBT]
Nothing

[4]
Worker finished roading, moved N to the cattle,
scout moved N-NE unto the hills, found another village.

[IBT]
Nothing

[5]
Worker started irrigating the cattle
moved the scout to the newly discovered village,
and got Mysticm tech

[IBT]
Salamanca: scout -> scout

[6]
The new scout moved from the capital to E-E to the hills
the older scout moved E-N unto the mountains

[IBT]
Nothing

[7]
New scout moved SE to get the village nearest our capital, and got a skilled, warrior. And I moved the warrior toward the capital for MP purpose only. The old scout moved NW unto the hills.

[IBT]
Nothing

[8]
New scout moved S-S
Old scout moved N-N

[IBT]
Nothing

[9]
Worker is finished irrigating the cattle, and started roading.
New scout moved s unto the mountain
Old scout moved N-N and found a mountain.

[IBT]
Nothing

[10]
New scout moved S,
Old scout moved N-N to stand atop the northermost mountain.

3500BC

3500 BC

 

[shoguntaka]

Now, I think about this:

Why didn't I get warrior code instead of mysticm? Isn't WC cheaper?

The only solution I came up with is that there's more AI's with Mysticsm than those w/ WC.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Shogun - very nice job exploring. You maximized the number of new tiles you saw every time. I will open your save and look at the city shortly.

Something to start thinking about while we wait for the others to play and post - What are good city sites and why are they good? That will be our next discussion topic.

 

[shoguntaka]

I think it should be our 2nd city here (the red dot).
It's on the river, has a wheat, and lots of floodplains, and has a forest nearby (2 free shield everytime it grows). Once we switch to either Republic or Monarchy, we can mine all these 3 hills and the mountain, making the 2nd city a very strong powerhouse.

 

[scoutsout]

Turn 0 - 4000 BC
Worker - N to cattle
Scout - N, W to mountain, sees wine
Settler - NW

IBT - nothing

Turn 1 - 3950 BC
Settler founds Salamanca -> Scout in 5 turns (micromanage citizen to work forest, will try for scout one turn sooner) 3spt, 3fpt, 4gpt
Research Bronze Working at 0%
Worker - N to cattle
Scout - SW, SW, sees Floodplain w/ wheat to W-SW

IBT - nothing

Turn 2 - 3900 BC
Worker - Irrigate (4 turns)
Scout - S, SE, sees incense SW-SW

IBT - nothing

Turn 3 - 38550 BC
Salamanca - micromanage citizen to BG tile N of city to increase food; growth in 9 turns, Scout in 2.
Scout - W, W, sees coast.

IBT - nothing

Turn 4 - 3800 BC
Scout - N,N

IBT - nothing

Turn 5 - 3750 BC
Salamanca - Scout->Granary
Scout 2 E-E, sees some coast
Scout 1 NE-N, sees Goody Hut NW on hill

IBT - nothing

Turn 6 - 3700 BC
Worker completes irrigation, starts road (done in 3)
Scout 1 NW, pops hut, gets Warrior Code, sees game and forest to NW
Scout 2 pops hut on mountain SE, gets Mysticism, sees coast to NE, E, SE.

IBT - nothing

Turn 7 - 3650 BC
Scout 2 - S,S, sees fish to E
Scout 1 - E, N to Mountain

IBT - nothing

Turn 8 - 3600 BC
Scout 1 - E, E to mtn, sees BG 2 tiles NE of Worker, possible forest SE of BG...(shield city site on hill???)
Scout 2 SE, SW to Mtn, sees dyes

IBT - nothing

Turn 9 - 3550 BC
Scout 2 - W,W, sees another Floodplain/Wheat
Worker - completes road, moves SW
Scout 1 - E, E, onto narrow Strip

IBT - nothing

Turn 10 - 3500 BC
Worker - starts mine (done in 6, we'll need the shields for granary)
Scout 1, NE, Sees GH NE, pops it for a map. Looks like a peninsula, sees whales.
Scout 2, S, S to mtn, sees Goody Hut East.

Overall,
Salamanca will grow in 2 turns, Granary in 25.
Treasury has 46 gold, +4 gpt.
We haven't met anybody (yet), looks like we need to start grabbing some land fast while there's not much competition.
The scouts got us a couple of techs, Mysticism is normally good to trade with, but we need to find someone to trade with... If we can get the sites settled and hooked up, we should be in decent shape with luxuries for us, but no surplus to trade with.

Here's my Game .SAV

...and here's my screen cap:

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Scout - very good job MMing your city. You were able to produce your scout one turn quicker.

Your exploratory method is different than Shogun's. And is an interesting contrast. One isn't necessarily better than another.

With your first scout you essentially circled around your capitol, which uncovered several good city sites. Shogun went straight line as the terrrain dictated in search of contacts.

Scout's is a builder's approach, Shogun's an expansionist approach.

 

[denyd]

I probably missed the discussion, but why did the team select Bronze Working at 0% research?

If you were going to set research to 0, why not pick a cheaper tech (like Warrior Code), then you could have gotten Bronze Working (a more valuable trade commodity) from a hut.

BTW: Has anyone checked who the AI are in the game and what traits they have?

 

[shoguntaka]

The reason we picked BW, because we want to get a Warrior's Code from the goody hut, so we can build our mounted warrior sooner.

Cool, Scoutsout, you got Warrior's Code and Mysticsm while my scout got Mysticsm and a conscript warrior. Seems the RNG seems to favor you, Scoutsout

 

[scoutsout]

Originally posted by denyd
If you were going to set research to 0, why not pick a cheaper tech (like Warrior Code), then you could have gotten Bronze Working (a more valuable trade commodity) from a hut.

...only one thing I can say about that denyd...DOH!

Sir Bugsy - you are right - I am, after all, a builder. But now that most of the territory around the capitol is scouted, I can send one scout south (after popping the hut) and one scout north (after a bit of back-tracking) and seek contact.

In circling the capitol I had 2 thoughts. First, if there are other civs nearby, it would affect my short-term strategy. Second, I want to pick the best site for the 2nd city, based on whether or not there are other civs nearby. I'll leave the "where do we go from here?" discussion until after my classmates have posted their turns...

...right now I'm gonna go have a look at how my buddy Shogun played it.

 

[scoutsout]

Originally posted by shoguntaka
Cool, Scoutsout, you got Warrior's Code and Mysticsm while my scout got Mysticsm and a conscript warrior. Seems the RNG seems to favor you, Scoutsout

Dumb luck, probably the same RNG seed, but the one-turn earlier scout thing probably just let me tap the RNG on a different point in its cycle...

The conscript warrior is not at all bad ... based on your scouting moves, you could use him to scout near the capitol, and then bring him home as the city grows to serve as an MP... or maybe send him out to get a little combat experience when we start seeing barbs. With the conscript warrior able to do close range scouting, I'd probably change the capitol build queue to granary at this point though...

I think your pick for a second city site warrants serious consideration. Based on your knowledge of the map I don't see how you could have picked anything different. Based on the combined knowledge of my map and yours (which feels like cheating), it still looks like a potentially good site...

IMO, we need a second settler factory. We don't have any close neighbors, so we can put off a military buildup and take this chance to grab as much as we can, as fast as we can. At the moment, I'm not sure I see any other sites with near-term "settler factory" potential. ...the site you picked has a forest nearby - a source of shields. Also, since it's city radius would be offset from the capitol, the two cities won't bicker over which gets to work the square with the wine on it...

There's a FP with Wheat down there by the incense, but to get shields we'd need to mine hills, and that'll take a while with these sluggish purple workers. Maybe we can make a worker factory down there...a possible city #3 or #4...

Now, I'm not good with floodplain cities, but if we can figure out how to make a settler factory over there, I'm all for it.