Global capitalism is failing

[Xenocrates]

Because in a capitalist system, I make my own rules as to how I spend my time. And I have decided to spend this bit of time on CFC.

'The market' makes the rules in capitalism. We are all being trampled by more dilligent and ruthless competitors while we are on here.

I should be happy that I got one comment on my posts on this thread, usually they leave orbit and plot a lonely course beyond the edge of the universe.

 

[Kozmos]

Cleric,

THe problem of socialist countries changing to capitalism is that they try tomake the change without any of the institutions in place that are necessary to prevent capitalism's abuses

What institutions would that be?

 

[JerichoHill]

@@ Cleric

By Institutions, I can mean anything from the judicial system to stock markets.

Here's a link to the IMF discussing institutions

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2005/02/pdf/chapter3.pdf

 

[Kozmos]

Judicial system:slow and corrupted.
Stock markets:Back deals and manipulation,corrupted as well.
IMF:Wolf in sheeps clothing.

 

[JerichoHill]

huh? I'm sorry, i don't follow.

The IMF paper that I linked just detailed what ARE economic institutions.

I mean, you could go to wikipedia or something....

 

[Kozmos]

In the end its all the government controlled.And the government doesnt work as it should.

 

[Urederra]

I think the judidical system is the key.

You can find corruption in every type of government, and it makes that government stop working properly.

 

[Zamecnik]

Dude, you're an economist, what does that have to do with my post? Secondly, you're not the only one with advanced training in economics, though mine is mostly in the context of development economics. Markets can serve the interest of all, as you said, if they function properly, but they don't. Moreover, again, they are entirely social constructs and thus serve certain interests more than others. I would posit that the Austrian school was always meant to be co-opted as it was inherently a class project from the very beginning. Moreover, the Austrian theorizing on what exactly consitutes "human behavior" is extremely sketchy and suspect, at best.

Dude, I'm an economist. I work for the US government as such. Much of what the Austrian school has done has been co-opted by right wing conservative think tanks, but its primarily a libertarian philosophy. Secondly, markets serve the interests of all. If they function properly, everyone involved gets back the value of their work.

 

[JerichoHill]

Well, you addressed me like I didn't know jack there buddy.

Alot of concepts get co-opted from the groups that figure them out, then those concepts are twisted for the gain of that co-opting group. Doesn't mean the underlying actual concept is not valid...indeed, much of them are.

But this is a discussion about whether global capitalism is failing. Which is what we should be discussing.

I cannot see, at this moment how capitalism is failing. I will say that it is not perfect, but that is mainly because, in my opinion, government (and other entities) are not wholly capitalistic. Capitalistic theory does not imply protectionism. Most developed nations still seem to cling to various notions of such.

 

[Irish Caesar]

'The market' makes the rules in capitalism. We are all being trampled by more dilligent and ruthless competitors while we are on here.

True, but nobody forces you into the marketplace. I don't think I'm doing too badly by putting off work until after graduating from college (or at least until I go home for the summer).

 

[Gelion]

• Half the world — nearly three billion people — live on less than two dollars a day.
• The GDP (Gross Domestic Product) of the poorest 48 nations (i.e. a quarter of the world’s countries) is less than the wealth of the world’s three richest people combined.
• Nearly a billion people entered the 21st century unable to read a book or sign their names.
• Less than one per cent of what the world spent every year on weapons was needed to put every child into school by the year 2000 and yet it didn't happen.
• 51 percent of the world’s 100 hundred wealthiest bodies are corporations. source
• The wealthiest nation on Earth has the widest gap between rich and poor of any industrialized nation.
• The poorer the country, the more likely it is that debt repayments are being extracted directly from people who neither contracted the loans nor received any of the money.
• 20% of the population in the developed nations, consume 86% of the world’s goods.
• The top fifth of the world’s people in the richest countries enjoy 82% of the expanding export trade and 68% of foreign direct investment — the bottom fifth, barely more than 1%.
• In 1960, the 20% of the world’s people in the richest countries had 30 times the income of the poorest 20% — in 1997, 74 times as much.

These facts can be validated at:

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Facts.asp


This is the charge sheet. In addition to this I would add the opinion that the current world system of integrated, essentially capitalist world framework is ill equiped to deal with environmental problems, principaly global warming.

And that only a international democratic socialist order transcending national identities can overcome these injustices and problems facing humanity.

Good point. However humans will not be able to adapt quickly enough. Nice to know that someone at least thinks about these facts.

 

[allhailIndia]

Its good to think about such things, bad to jump to conclusions...


For a start, how much can u link to capitalism that cannot be linked to sheer misgovernance.
India, with a fantastically socialist economy, enjoyed long periods of slow/no growth, rapid increase in population and nearly collapsed economically but for the shameful pawning of gold to get money.
Pakistan, with a nice capitalist system, enjoyed better growth than India all throughout the 50-80s, but slowed down in the 90s due to pure bad governance and military takeovers.
Even those statistics, do not take into account that 30 years or so when Communism was reigning in at least half the world. Does that make no difference? Does that have no role to play in wealth distribution or wealth creation?
What about the impact of AIDS on African economies at the bottom, or civil war, or genocide, or just plain crony dictatorship? Why are they being absolved of all the blame, with all of it being laid at the doorstep of capitalism?

 

[happy_Alex]

Crony dictatorships can be in the interests of global capitalism. Why do you think the west fed arms to Saddam and allowed him to gas Kurds in Halabja? Because he kept the oil flowing.

 

[happy_Alex]

But subsidies are not capitalistic.

No, corporations are concerned with making profit, which makes them stakeholders in politics, power and institutions.

 

[happy_Alex]

Good point. However humans will not be able to adapt quickly enough. Nice to know that someone at least thinks about these facts.

So we tell people in spirals of poverty and malnutrition we can help them because we can't 'adapt' ?

Thanks for the positive comment though...

 

[Gelion]

So we tell people in spirals of poverty and malnutrition we can help them because we can't 'adapt' ?

Thanks for the positive comment though...

What other news can you bring them? Inertia is too strong to stop it. The best thing some can do is at least undertand what is going on.
Other than that

 

[happy_Alex]

The news is that through collective action we are stronger than the forces which keeps them in their situation and we can change things for the better.

 

[BasketCase]

This post is absolutely drenched in the Naturalistic Fallacy. Natural does not equal Moral. Social Darwinism is so full of logical holes it's pathetic. One of the parts of being human is being able to use our brains to tell our less morally desirable public urges to go and take a jump in a lake.

And another part is being able to tell our morality to go take a jump in a lake.

"Do you know what your sin is?"
-- the Operative

"Hell, I'm a fan of all seven....but, right now, I'm gonna have to go with Wrath."
-- Malcolm Reynolds​

While the question posed in the OP title was whether or not capitalism is failing, the OP itself ended up asking whether capitalism was moral. However, Mother Nature has been showing us for the last several million years that morality isn't required for a system to work. So I don't think presenting immorality as a sign of failure was a valid argument for the OP'er.

 

[Xenocrates]

Yep Basket makes a good point.

The purpose of capitalism isn't to get equality or fairness, it's to increase the wealth of the people born with silver spoons in their mouths and increase the servitude and poverty those born with silver spoons in their eye sockets. I contend it's working very well!

 

[happy_Alex]

Yes, I agree the phrasing of the thread... ....could have read 'global capitalism is failing humanity' .

Fortunatly most picked up on the intention and ignored the poor semantics