Global warming and environmental catastrophe: science or myth?

[tR1cKy]

I'm interested in what are the different opinions about global warming and what could be the long-term effect on world climate. Feel free to post your point of view, being them environmentalist or skeptic. But please don't post useless slogans or propaganda. Put reasons explaining why you think what. Thanks.

 

[bathsheba666]

Ermmm,

Well, if we are creating greenhouse gases through our activities the world will be warmer than it would have been if we didn't.

If the various eco systems are only metastable, then there comes a point at which it is our activity that pushes it over the edge.

I care about the risk.

It seems obvious to me that the agenda against this point of view is driven by desire to increase corporate profits, from a cadre of individuals who believe that everything should be subjugated to shareholders' desire for greater returns.

A quick review of the individual in the US government who doctored and twisted scientists reports, followed by a review of the doctoring, followed by a review of the large energy corporation he went back to work for, adds up to a less than compelling reason to trust the naysayers.

 

[tR1cKy]

It is true that corporate interests tend to deny global warming effects, and the reason is obvious. But there are also big interests, both political and economical, in supporting the environmentalist cause. An example: in the USA, many "grassroots" environmentalist groups receive money from foundations, individuals and in some cases corporates, that are related to the U.S. Democrat Party. Guess who the activists are voting when there are presidential elections?

Interests are everywhere, and my feeling is that we can't really trust anyone, unless there are valid scientific proofs supporting a thing.

 

[Perfection]

It is undoubtedly true we are in a period of global warming and almost all evidence points to human activity as the culprit. The effects of this climactic change both in the medium and long run are debated.

 

[AceChilla]

Well I was told in highschool by my geography teacher that if one volcano erupts and spreads its gases in the atmosphere it creates more global warming than a couple years of human behaviour.

Also the earth has seen massive changes in temperature. A couple thousand years ago Europe was covered below massive layers of ice. I didn't here anyone complain about global warming when that ice melted. Once the country I live in was a tropical sea. All those changes without any human interference. And now it's becoming a couple degrees warmer and everybody panics.

I know to little of the details of human impact on global warming to be certain about anything. But I am sceptical about the human impact.

 

[Narz]

Where's the poll?

It's pretty obvious we're screwing up our air and water.

If you believe polluted air and fresh mountain air don't make a difference in your health try being a bike messenger in NY for a year and then spend a year biking every day in a cleaner environment and notice the difference in how you feel.

After 9/11 all air traffic was grounded in the United States and in just a few days scientists noticed a perceptable shift in the air quality thruout the country. Imagine if all cars could be run with no exhaust (or oxygen as exhaust), think of what a difference that would make.

Sure, nature goes thru it's only natural cycles but it's pretty obvious to me than whatever is happening we're making it about 20 times worse.

 

[puglover]

Well we do have to be careful with our environoment. My dad would tell stories of growing up in New York. Lake Erie was so polluted it was like fishing in sludge.

But at the same time I think global warming is nonsense. The temperature over the last 100 years has risen about 1/10th of a degree.

So we have to be careful about nature, and realize the consequences of our actions, yet not go overboard with end of the world theories about the environment.

 

[taper]

Are humans influencing the environment? Almost certainly yes. Is it a bad thing? That has yet to be proven either way. Consider this: CO2 levels were higher 150 thousand years ago than they are today, as shown by ice cores: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Vostok-ice-core-petit.png , ocean levels are at near record lows on a geological scale, global tempuratures have swung from being tropical nearly everywhere, with no polar ice caps, to glaciers extending far into North American and Europe.

And volcano dust actually cools the earth, by reflecting sunlight back into space.

 

[Truronian]

Global warming is real (0.8 degrees in past 100 years FYI). And is caused in part by man. I see it as natural selection. We are harming the earth, and in doing so harming ourselves. The result will be a dramatic drop in the number of humans methinks.

Adopting more eco-friendly policies is nothing other than a good step.

 

[Cheetah]

Well, one of the short-term consequences is that the weather all over the globe is getting more extreme.

Now, I'm not directly affected by the thousands of people who die in Britain, France, Spain, Germany, Portugal, Italy, etc, every summer when Europe is struck by heavy heatwaves.
British deaths from heat caused by volcano-gases in 1783. (BBC, 2004.05.25)
More smog caused by warmer weather. (BBC, 2004.07.30)
European deaths from air pollution set to rise. (New Scientist, 2004.09.07)
Impact of hot temperatures on death in London. (JECH, 2001.08.03)

Neither am I directly affected by the thousands who die around the world because of flooding and droughts.
Black Carbon Contributes to droughts and floods in China. (NASA, 2002.09.26)
Major floods that have only happened before say, every 100 years on average, may now start to happen every 10 or 20 years. (BBC)
Climate Studies Point to More Floods in This Century. (National Geographic News, 2002.01.30)

But in time, I too, can be suffering because of climate change, if not physicaly, then at least economicaly.
Pentagon tells Bush: climate change will destroy us. (Guardian, 2004.02.22)
Impact of climate change to cost the world $US 300 billion a year. (UNEP, 2001.02.03)

Now, I probably deserve a bit of it, as I too like to drive cars, I would love to have a SUV, I drive an ATV around my family's cabin for fun, I want a big boat, I fly with planes about 14 times a year and I produce a lot of garbage.

But what has nature and the wild life done to deserve it?

 

[Strider]

I wish it would get warmer here... it's been colder than normal this year.

 

[nico65]

I for one believe that we tend to overestimate the importance of green house gasses.
The climatic changes we are experiencing could be a perfectly natural phenomenon. before the last ice age there was a warm periode with higher temperatures than those we experience today, back then there were living lions and hippoes in what is today Germany.
Likevise the small ice age proves to us that climatic changes occure every now and again. The Global warming we see today can probably be attributed the Milankovitch cycles, or another natural phenomenon.

Although I thing I heard a theory some time ago claiming that global warming was triggered by mankinds transistion to agricultural society. Apparently the gasses emmited over thousands of years by paddy fields should have fundamentaly altered the composition of Earth's atmosphere.

 

[Dida]

some folks are tired of being ignored and perceived as big time loser, so they made some noise to get attention. can we say clowns?

 

[newfangle]

It would be intellectually dishonest to contend that humanity has no effect on climate.

As Perfection says, it's really just a matter of how much abuse earth can take before it pukes all over us.

 

[Perfection]

Well we do have to be careful with our environoment. My dad would tell stories of growing up in New York. Lake Erie was so polluted it was like fishing in sludge.

But at the same time I think global warming is nonsense. The temperature over the last 100 years has risen about 1/10th of a degree.

More like 10 times that! That may not seem significant but it does have a significatn impact on climate

So we have to be careful about nature, and realize the consequences of our actions, yet not go overboard with end of the world theories about the environment.

Very few (Who have a shred of credibility) are claiming the "end of the world.' But, sea level rise, storm pattern change, and climactic change does have the potential to be a significant pain in the neck. The process is well verified, there is little doubt that humans are contributing to global warming. The extent that the global warming will continue and what other effects are what is debated.

As Perfection says, it's really just a matter of how much abuse earth can take before it pukes all over us.

Nice visual.

 

[Dida]

It would be intellectually dishonest to contend that humanity has no effect on climate.

As Perfection says, it's really just a matter of how much abuse earth can take before it pukes all over us.

Let's face it, human, especially civilized human, act in a way similar to cancer cells. we get out hands on a healthy, resource abundant part of the earth, conquer it, use up the resource, and then look for some other resource somewhere else.
this is the nature of existence. do not grieve over harms that we have done, this is the way it is meant to be.
Note: you are harming the earth right now, since you are using a computer, which is powered by electricity generated using fossil fuel which is not renewable and contributes to global warming.

 

[TruePurple]

Current models of global warming are very accurate and show a direct correlation between industry and human release (like cars etc) and global warming. What ever theories you heard some time ago nico65 doesn't alter this.

It is very serious, watched a thing on pbs about it. How melting glacier's add fresh water to areas around greenland which disrupted ocean thermosystems which meant some places getting much colder (because these thermobelts are responsible for delivering heat from the equator) How global warming is responsible for continuous drought in other parts of the world. How moose and such face dwindling population because of warmer weather, this is due to extra mosquitoes driving them to areas that don't provide good food, also causing extra snowfall in the winter making it hard for them to reach food then as well. How its devastating forests by making conditions where damaging bugs can get them. Florida could go under water as well as other low lying places(some already have) It means more extreme weather as well, since its the suns heat that fuels such weather.

Its observable too, many low lying islands have gone under water. others are going under. Parts of Florida are currently going under water year by year. Plenty of observation of mountain peak ice and glaciers shrinking and disappearing. Places in Alaska where permafrost forests are falling into marshland. And as these areas warm they release gases, as the ice retreats theres more exposed land that absorbs instead of reflects the sun's rays like ice and snow does. So its speeding up!

Any respectable scientist not under pay of industries who don't want to be told what to do agree. To the vaste majority of the scientific community, there is no debate. Global warming is here, is mankinds fault, and is serious.

As far as general numbers of temperature increase due to global warming, these are averages that hide great variations in temperature in different locations at different times. Global warming means more of these extremes. (cold, hot, drought, floods and more violent weather)

 

[Perfection]

Let's face it, human, especially civilized human, act in a way similar to cancer cells. we get out hands on a healthy, resource abundant part of the earth, conquer it, use up the resource, and then look for some other resource somewhere else.
this is the nature of existence. do not grieve over harms that we have done, this is the way it is meant to be.
Note: you are harming the earth right now, since you are using a computer, which is powered by electricity generated using fossil fuel which is not renewable and contributes to global warming.

That's a funny thing to say to Newfangle. It's not really that Newfangle (or I) care that much about the environment. It's just that it has a potential to, as Newfangle put it, "puke all over us".

 

[newfangle]

Yes exactly.

I'm not some fuzzy wuzzy envirofreak worried about Gaia. It's all about efficiency and powerhouse economies for me, and the only way we can get to this point is by using better technology which, conveniently, staves off massive climate change.

To say, "Well..that's the way it is, so meh!" is just stupid.

 

[Narz]

Let's face it, human, especially civilized human, act in a way similar to cancer cells. we get out hands on a healthy, resource abundant part of the earth, conquer it, use up the resource, and then look for some other resource somewhere else.
this is the nature of existence. do not grieve over harms that we have done, this is the way it is meant to be.
Note: you are harming the earth right now, since you are using a computer, which is powered by electricity generated using fossil fuel which is not renewable and contributes to global warming.

Maybe you're a cancer cell, but I'm not.

You're all or nothing attitude is what is slows progress. "Well, I can't help but harm the Earth a little so let's go all out, who cares, there's nothing we can do anyway." Right?

There's a lot you can do, little decisions make a big difference. Maybe you should get back together with your old environmentally friendly girlfriend and learn from her.

I'm not some fuzzy wuzzy envirofreak worried about Gaia. It's all about efficiency and powerhouse economies for me

"Yeah man it's not like a care or anything, that wouldn't be manly or logical enough to fit my persona. It's just that Mother Earth is my b***h and if I treat her too bad she might just puke in my face when I plunder her... and we can't be having that!"