Global warming strikes again...

For me the Thorium argument seams pretty solid. He stated that he is not actively trying to discredit renewables (title is just a click-bait ;) ) because they are great but (imo) only as support untill we get to fusion. Worst thing about renewables though is that they take huge amount of space. I agree with that. To build solar/wind farms we still need steel and we still need space which might imply deforestation, draining swams etc. ruining natural habitats for many animals. Frankly nuclear seems most efficient as of now. Maybe as we (if ever) get to fusion it would be easier and cheaper to refit fission reactors to fusion ones if we start building them now replacing that horrible coal plants.
 
Hurrican Lorenzo is coming
Excepted to be Cat 5

Trump should hurry up with that Wall /s
 
For me the Thorium argument seams pretty solid. He stated that he is not actively trying to discredit renewables (title is just a click-bait ;) ) because they are great but (imo) only as support untill we get to fusion. Worst thing about renewables though is that they take huge amount of space. I agree with that. To build solar/wind farms we still need steel and we still need space which might imply deforestation, draining swams etc. ruining natural habitats for many animals. Frankly nuclear seems most efficient as of now. Maybe as we (if ever) get to fusion it would be easier and cheaper to refit fission reactors to fusion ones if we start building them now replacing that horrible coal plants.

The best way to support nuclear is to keep on learning about it, ever ratcheting upwards until your lay knowledge is at least equal to a university graduate in the field (easier than you think, if you find the topic interesting). There are oodles of free teaching resources out there.

Then you can advocate from an informed position.
 
I don't see the point in lamenting the lack of adoption of energy that is, as of yet, fiction and not at all real. We obviously can't keep using non-renewable, dirty energy. We obviously can't switch to energy that hasn't been invented yet. So... seems like renewable is the way to go, innit?
 
That's actually a pretty complicated calculation. It mostly depends on what you predict the cost of transitioning to fusion to be.

The game winning move is to cut back fossil carbon and focus more work on the alternatives. The less you contribute to the alternatives, the more you should be cutting back.

But those are suggestions that use graphs containing trendlines without hard units.
 
Can we even transition to fusion energy? If every world government right this very moment collectively decided to go, "Hey, let's go with fusion energy," and poured all their resources into it, could we? I was under the impression that it's all theory right now and that we're not even at the prototype stage yet.
 
Can we even transition to fusion energy? If every world government right this very moment collectively decided to go, "Hey, let's go with fusion energy," and poured all their resources into it, could we? I was under the impression that it's all theory right now and that we're not even at the prototype stage yet.

There is the ITER project.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER

But this is purely a kind of lab experimental set up... though very, very expensive.
 
Can we even transition to fusion energy? If every world government right this very moment collectively decided to go, "Hey, let's go with fusion energy," and poured all their resources into it, could we? I was under the impression that it's all theory right now and that we're not even at the prototype stage yet.

We're at the protoype stage, but the prototypes have yet to show it can be viable, ie, get more energy out than you put in.
 
Can we even transition to fusion energy? If every world government right this very moment collectively decided to go, "Hey, let's go with fusion energy," and poured all their resources into it, could we? I was under the impression that it's all theory right now and that we're not even at the prototype stage yet.

Yeah, that's the calculation.

There's a perceived investment required to get us to the point where we can transition (have the technology, even). And then there's the predicted cost of the transition itself.
We know the 'wrong' answer, to 100% focus all available public (and charity) dollars towards renewable. Or to 100% focus on fusion. I know the easiest action is to reduce the carbon consumption, because that pays off now.

I don't know the right blend. At any given time, we're making a best effort to trim a source of carbon, and then replace it with the best available technology. But when never know when to limp along with repairing a coal factory compared to shutting it down to replace it with something. I mean, you intuitively know this, but if you build a solar farm just before a superior alternative comes along, then you ended up wasting money.
 
That seems like a simple calculation to solve, no? The government has the capacity to fund specific technological advances. They've done it in the past, so they can certainly do it now. There's no guarantee that investment in fusion research will yield timely results (I looked up a Forbes thing and it said there's the distant hope of having a commercially viable reactor by 2050, so that's 30 years out), so enacting energy policy based on a distant maybe feels unwise.

Is the impact on the environment worse if we switch from dirty nonrenewable energy to still-dirty-but-renewable energy? Thus far the consensus seems to be no, unless I've missed something about the production cycle of solar panels and turbines. Still destructive, but immensely better in the long run than fracking, drilling, and burning.

But also important is that efficiency of renewable energy is actively improving year by year. It's getting cheaper to produce, as well. Even if you believe in the economic wonders of coal, it's starting to become more expensive than renewable energy in many places.

Specific investment in fusion energy will likely speed up that expectation, assuming the theory is sound, but specific investment in solar/wind will also immediately remove a major source of pollutants and drive costs down of energy production (to an extent, you'll never wrest the reins of profit-building from the utilities). If we keep the 2050 target for viable fusion reactors that can be safely built and utilized for mass production, that means we have 30 years in front of us that need a definitive answer to the environmental and finite resource quandary. And then probably a decade or more after that to transition from that source of energy to fusion.

We know that oil and coal are finite resources, that they're dirty, and that they pose a definitive threat to our climate and economic future. We can't use them forever, even if you don't care about the environment. And we've already proven that the longer you wait to make a change, the worse the results are, and the harder it is to undo the damage.

So you ask: "What can we switch to, right now, that is better for us in the long term?"

To me the answer is a plain and simple, "Start switching as much as you can to renewable energy sources like solar and wind. Specifically invest in alternative renewable energy research that is more productive and less destructive of the environment."

We're at the stage where top-level changes need to be made five years ago, so we can hardly afford to twiddle our thumbs for ~30 years until something better than solar/wind comes by. The cards we've been dealt say that what we have right now is bad and needs to change, that every moment we dawdle is a moment that causes potentially irreparable long-term consequences, and we know that the best solution is one completely and objectively totally inaccessible for now. So the next best thing is what coal/oil hawks are trying so hard to prevent.
 
Fusion has been on a 30 year horizon for going on 50 years now. As solar prices continue to drop like a stone, the niche that fusion could fill keeps shrinking and shrinking. I no longer see much point to it on the Earth, though I really want it to drive starships.
 
Fusion has been on a 30 year horizon for going on 50 years now. As solar prices continue to drop like a stone, the niche that fusion could fill keeps shrinking and shrinking. I no longer see much point to it on the Earth, though I really want it to drive starships.

Unlike any other form of energy producing, fusion's byproduct is energy* itself so if it's gonna be available and if building and starting a fusion reactor isn't overwhelmingly costly than maybe it can still found use on our pale blue little spot ;)

*actually maybe some helium as well :mischief:
 
Fusion produces radioactive nuclear waste. The process irradiates the reactor itself and eventually it has to be stripped down and rebuilt and the old parts discarded. It's much less waste than fission, but it's not entirely clean.
 
I really recommend the book 'the Burning Question'. The central thesis is that we're okay to burn some of our known reserves and we certainly cannot be burning all our known reserves.
It's sorts out various ways to think about the investments we need to make into the future.
 
I've bookmarked to watch the whole thing on Sunday. Thanks for an interesting material to look up. Makes good starting point to look at the global warming problem in depth. I was wondering though how the book is written ? Is it easy for layman like me to understand ? Watching him talk about it seems like it's not too complicated.
 
Real, live, economically viable power plants could then follow in the 2030s. No joke. When I ask Whyte, who is 54, to compare his level of optimism now to any other point in his career, he says, simply: “It is at the maximum.”

But it’s not just MIT. At least 10 other startups also are trying new approaches to fusion power. All of them contend that it’s no longer a tantalizingly tricky science experiment, and is becoming a matter of engineering. If even just one of these ventures can pull it off, the energy source of the future is closer than it seems.

“It’s remarkable,” says David Kingham, executive vice chairman of Tokamak Energy, a British company whose goal is to put fusion power on the grid by 2030. “The world has been waiting for fusion for a long time.

https://onezero.medium.com/finally-fusion-power-is-about-to-become-a-reality-c6b8b5915cf5


It is starting to move rapidly in different directions so although its possible its still 30 years off the fact is that it is getting more interesting.

Still doesn't excuse waiting to deploy solar and wind.
 
Lockheed has also invested a few billion into its own secretive fusion efforts. I do not know if that was contingent on concurrent (and massive) government investment in their project (which can skew profit calculations quite substantially) but I don't recall any of the articles I read on it mentioning that.
 
The word 'startups' made me suspicious

Yea startups in the someone dropped 100 million dollars on me “startup”. Lol.
 
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