1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Global warming strikes again...

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by CavLancer, Nov 24, 2016.

  1. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,276
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    I don't see a future without airplanes as well. Especially for intercontinental transport and locations where it makes no sense to have a dense railway or motorway system.

    Synthetic fuel at the cost needed to capture CO2, converted in synthetic fuel, and in your ticket price, should I guess erase climate discussions there (unless they are of a more theological nature)..

    (environmental & health will stay regarding especially fine dust and to some degree noise. But those are a matter of volumes, a matter of viable alternatives. The higher ticket price will settle a lot)
    Biofuel is, if you make an honest calculation, not sustainable the coming decades, because of the deforesting that is not in the total equation.
     
  2. Arwon

    Arwon

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    Messages:
    17,758
    Location:
    Canberra
    My understanding is algae may be one of the most promising biofuel source for aviation kerosene, which I guess is a bit different
     
  3. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,276
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Still some work to do there before mass production is economical interesting.

    Algae are also seen as a promising food source (with our global population growing still at a fast rate beyond sustainable farming on land).

    You can eat a bird in the sky only once.

    And algae do contain besides energy (the carbs) also valuable proteins, fatty acids, micro nutrients... all discarded when "only" applied as fuel.
     
  4. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,276
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    A snail goes very slow and does need slime to get moving at all, but still...

    Fossil is slowly getting less room

     
    yung.carl.jung likes this.
  5. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,276
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    With my morning coffee... in a cynical streak reading the news...

    ... the big Climate conference. Not in Brazil because Bolsonora did suddenly and last minute terminate that planned meeting there. Not in Chili because of the troubles there.
    Spain so good to improvise the last minute solution in Spain. Chapeau for Spain :)
    https://www.theguardian.com/science...es-want-decisive-action-to-prevent-inundation

    The dot rock tax evasion paradise islands complain that the big nations are doing not enough against Climate warming to prevent their countries disappearing below the ocean waves.

    What on earth do they think ?
    That the billionaires, so happy to use them now, will come to their rescue ?

    And why should those billionaires do that if they have for example South-Dakota as safe haven for their wealth ?
    high and dry from the ocean waves... fully protected by US sovereignity.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...y-the-super-rich-love-south-dakota-trust-laws
     
    yung.carl.jung and Estebonrober like this.
  6. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    35,912
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    Anthrax in the Arctic

    This is not recent (2016) The consequences of global warming are already upon us.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/01/anthrax-outbreak-climate-change-arctic-circle-russia
     
    hobbsyoyo likes this.
  7. Synsensa

    Synsensa - Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Messages:
    18,299
    It surprised me just how common anthrax is when my dad got it in his leg when I was 10 or 11. At that age, I thought it was only a weaponized agent, and I was wondering who my dad pissed off in rural Canada. :lol:

    Anyways, yeah, it sucks. Not great news.
     
    hobbsyoyo and Birdjaguar like this.
  8. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    35,912
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    And then there is this:

    Flesh-Eating Bacteria on New Jersey Beaches Are Rising Because of Climate Change
     
    hobbsyoyo likes this.
  9. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2002
    Messages:
    13,380
    Location:
    next to George Bush's parents
    That would make sense. Algae produces a lot of bi and tri-ols, glycerin being the most common. These are easy to string together by removing the alcohol groups as water, ie H from a carbon atom of one molecule and OH from a carbon of another molecule joining into a water molecule, leaving the carbons attached. Under controlled conditions, you can almost tailor the resulting carbon chains.

    J
     
  10. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,276
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Once you got algae there are various ways to get "kerosine".

    The point I made against algae is that
    * algae harvested from oceans are in competitiotion with usage as food.
    * if you use reactors (the hype) to produce algae or products algae can make you have to supply light to these reactors. And where is the energy from that light coming from ???
     
  11. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    43,164
    Location:
    Pale Blue Dot youtube=wupToqz1e2g
    The trick would be to go where there's light but little life. Middle of the oceans. But that's pretty huge infrastructure
     
  12. Samson

    Samson Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    4,575
    Location:
    Cambridge
    We have heard skeptics bemoan the poor quality of older climate models to predict current climate, as a way to cast doubt over current models. Zeke Hausfather, a graduate student at the University of California, Berkeley, has run the old models with real world emissions, and it turns out they were pretty good after all:
    The researchers compared annual average surface temperatures across the globe to the surface temperatures predicted in 17 forecasts. Those predictions were drawn from 14 separate computer models released between 1970 and 2001. In some cases, the studies and their computer codes were so old that the team had to extract data published in papers, using special software to gauge the exact numbers represented by points on a printed graph.
    Most of the models accurately predicted recent global surface temperatures, which have risen approximately 0.9°C since 1970. For 10 forecasts, there was no statistically significant difference between their output and historic observations, the team reports today in Geophysical Research Letters.
    Seven older models missed the mark by as much as 0.1°C per decade. But the accuracy of five of those forecasts improved enough to match observations when the scientists adjusted a key input to the models: how much climate-changing pollution humans have emitted over the years. That includes greenhouse gases and aerosols, tiny particles that reflect sunlight. Pollution levels hinge on a host of unpredictable factors. Emissions might rise or fall because of regulations, technological advances, or economic booms and busts.
    To take one example, Hausfather points to a famous 1988 model overseen by then–NASA scientist James Hansen. The model predicted that if climate pollution kept rising at an even pace, average global temperatures today would be approximately 0.3°C warmer than they actually are. That has helped make Hansen’s work a popular target for critics of climate science.
    Hausfather found that most of this overshoot was caused not by a flaw in the model’s basic physics, however. Instead, it arose because pollution levels changed in ways Hansen didn’t predict. For example, the model overestimated the amount of methane—a potent greenhouse gas—that would go into the atmosphere in future years. It also didn’t foresee a precipitous drop in planet-warming refrigerants like some Freon compounds after international regulations from the Montreal Protocol became effective in 1989.​
    Primary paper, review in science.
     
    Truthy, El_Machinae and Hrothbern like this.
  13. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    43,164
    Location:
    Pale Blue Dot youtube=wupToqz1e2g
    I use this type of information when talking to my denier friends. That said

    "For 10 forecasts, there was no statistically significant difference between their output and historic observations"

    The memories of statistics are niggling. Isn't this super-easy to do? I mean, you just need error bars that are wide enough. It's seems they're making a claim about alpha when the real interest is going to be about beta.
     
  14. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    9,273
    Location:
    Chicago
    Your denier friends will just mention how cold it is today and say that disproves Global warming. :p
     
    Estebonrober and yung.carl.jung like this.
  15. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    43,164
    Location:
    Pale Blue Dot youtube=wupToqz1e2g
    No. Everybody has a threshold of evidence. The fact that Esso obfuscated results is useful. That said, I can't even get liberals to change their behaviour in any significant way, so it's not like anybody really cares
     
  16. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2002
    Messages:
    13,380
    Location:
    next to George Bush's parents
    Nevada, away from Vegas. As long as you have water recapture, this would be easy to do in a desert.

    J
     
  17. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    43,164
    Location:
    Pale Blue Dot youtube=wupToqz1e2g
    I guess "wherever solar would work" is a short form answer
     
  18. stfoskey12

    stfoskey12 Emperor of Foskania

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
    Messages:
    826
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    35° 12' N 97° 26' W
    But the waters in New Jersey have only warmed a couple degrees probably, far less than the temperature difference between there and Florida. So I don't get how climate change alone can be the cause. If they just need temperatures as warm as 55.4F to survive, that level of warmth is reached as far north as Maine in the summer time, I'd bet.
     
  19. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    35,912
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    And what is your explanation? The Gulf stream is also likely involved.
     
  20. Modder_Mode

    Modder_Mode Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Messages:
    242
    Because climate change has been made unfalsifiable, any weather event or indeed natural disaster that occurs or any anomaly in nature is automatically linked to climate change and anyone that dares question it is a denier of the worst kind and held to the same ilk as holocaust deniers and flat earthers, the methodology and measuring of climate change may be scientific, but the discussion surrounding it certainly isn't.
     

Share This Page