Global warming strikes again...

[Farm Boy]

The easy win on methane, if desired, is avoiding directly consuming cows. You can eat a chicken for the lab "easy win." No, the lab grown "win" is an ethics concern, not an environmental one. It might also be a capitalism win if the entire thing can be largely automated in a privately owned and controlled space, then competition regulated or subsidized out. If chicken is still too ethically fraught, can go to fish, or can go down to shrimp/crickets.

 

[Samson]

The easy win on methane, if desired, is avoiding directly consuming cows. You can eat a chicken for the lab "easy win." No, the lab grown "win" is an ethics concern, not an environmental one. It might also be a capitalism win if the entire thing can be largely automated in a privately owned and controlled space, then competition regulated or subsidized out. If chicken is still too ethically fraught, can go to fish, or can go down to shrimp/crickets.

I think we basically agree. Chicken gets rid of the methane problem, and until lab meat is less than 2.4 FCE then it is only an ethical improvement, if that.

I think shrimp are one of the worst things to eat. In the UK at least most of them come from the sub-continent and they are causing all sorts of problems over there, such as land salinisation and pollution with the various drugs they use to control pests.

There is also big questions about fish. Wild ones have the well known problems associated with over fishing, and farmed ones have a wide spectrum of efficiencies from ones grown in rice paddies that have a FCE less than 1, because they eat pests of the rice, to some farming which is based on catching wild fish and feeding that to farmed fish with a higher value.

Do we need a seperate thread to discuss how we can reduce our environmental footprint?

 

[Farm Boy]

I missed the number #1 thing. It sounds condescending to people already doing it, but the leading ground for improvement at least in the US is literally eating your leftovers and throwing away less.

 

[Hrothbern]

I missed the number #1 thing. It sounds condescending to people already doing it, but the leading ground for improvement at least in the US is literally eating your leftovers and throwing away less.

true
something 25% reduction of food environmental footprint in NL from the top of my head.

 

[Synobun]

It is true that in the end it is a system for converting food energy in one form to food energy in another form. I do not know what the current inputs are, but I have heard that the burgers cost about $100,000 to make, so it is clearly not efficient or environmentally friendly now. However there are reasons to believe it could be so in the future.

IIRC, the cost of a lab-grown burger is <$1000 now.

Still not financially feasible, but it's still an incredibly early science that is only getting mainstream attention for, what, 3 or 4 years now?

Plant alternatives are more affordable in the meantime. Still more costly than real meat, but definitely nowhere near as expensive as in-vitro. Hobbs and Mary talked off-site a bit about the Beyond Meat patties which are supposedly pretty good. A&W in Canada also has limited runs of their Beyond Meat burgers that sell out quickly every time they offer it. They're doing a good job of popularizing the idea here.

I'm not sure if the UK and US have anything similar. I know the US has trendy "hipster" restaurants but I'm uncertain if they have a fast-food version of any meat alternatives. IMO, the easiest way of getting alternatives popular acceptance is to have a corporate behemoth rally behind the cause. A&W is pretty small fry here (comparatively) but they've had a noticeable effect on public opinion.

 

[AmazonQueen]

IIRC, the cost of a lab-grown burger is <$1000 now.

Still not financially feasible, but it's still an incredibly early science that is only getting mainstream attention for, what, 3 or 4 years now?

Plant alternatives are more affordable in the meantime. Still more costly than real meat, but definitely nowhere near as expensive as in-vitro. Hobbs and Mary talked off-site a bit about the Beyond Meat patties which are supposedly pretty good. A&W in Canada also has limited runs of their Beyond Meat burgers that sell out quickly every time they offer it. They're doing a good job of popularizing the idea here.

I'm not sure if the UK and US have anything similar. I know the US has trendy "hipster" restaurants but I'm uncertain if they have a fast-food version of any meat alternatives. IMO, the easiest way of getting alternatives popular acceptance is to have a corporate behemoth rally behind the cause. A&W is pretty small fry here (comparatively) but they've had a noticeable effect on public opinion.

Some of the supermarkets here have been trialing beetroot burghers that "bleed" when you cut into them. Haven't ried them but I don't miss meat (apart from bacon sandwiches).

 

[Samson]

According to foodemissions.com wild fish is by far the best animal protein, at 0.87 Kg of CO2e/lb for mackerel fillets. Chicken is 1.70, surprisingly farmed salmon is pretty good at 2.30. I was surprised that cheese (4.46) is much better than beef (8.00). Beans, common dry varieties are 0.43, walnuts, chandler variety are only 0.22.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I've had "Impossible Burgers" a couple of times. They were good and I'd eat them over real beef. But I switched to chicken and pretty much gave up beef and pork years ago.

 

[Synobun]

I've had "Impossible Burgers" a couple of times. They were good and I'd eat them over real beef. But I switched to chicken and pretty much gave up beef and pork years ago.

They don't have that here. At least not at restaurants according to their location finder.

It looks like they have it at Red Robin. Also don't have that here, but looks to be a casual dining place like Kelsey's, Montana's, etc. to me. How popular are they?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Burger King offers them at locations in St. Louis. A fast casual place in NM, Flying Star, offers them in my locale. They are brand new (last 2-3 weeks) in both of those locations.

 

[El_Machinae]

You're better off donating to alternative meat initiatives than you are simply reducing consumption. Lab meat can and should be the future.

Also check the regs and see if you can build a greywater recycler. Useful for your lawn and garden if you have one. But that might be a huge cost with little-to-no payoff.

Currently, there is no alternative but to deliberately cutting back in some way that your friends aren't, and then using the savings in a targeted way.

 

[Truthy]

They don't have that here. At least not at restaurants according to their location finder.

It looks like they have it at Red Robin. Also don't have that here, but looks to be a casual dining place like Kelsey's, Montana's, etc. to me. How popular are they?

They're very popular in the Bay Area

 

[Birdjaguar]

They're very popular in the Bay Area

Red Robins or Impossible burgers?

 

[Truthy]

Impossible Burgers, but maybe Red Robins too

 

[civvver]

I don't understand impossible burgers or any kind of plant based food that tries to imitate meat flavors. Like why? What's the point? A good black bean burger tastes just fine but it doesn't taste like beef, nor should it. It's a different food item entirely. It'd be like if we tried to make falafel taste like beef kebabs. Why? Falafel is great as is. I love salmon and turkey burgers too, well salmon I prefer filets on a sandwich rather than a ground patty, but guess what, they don't taste like beef burgers. They taste like turkey and salmon. We should just embrace plant based foods for what they are and evolve our palates and offerings beyond salads and steamed side dishes as the only vegetable options. I would totally eat a black bean burger or eggplant parm or many other things if places offered them and put effort into them rather than just throwing them on the menu to appease non meat eaters. Many places will make their own fresh beef patties but then use pre made frozen bean patties. And I need a lot of protein, most non meat dishes don't incorporate enough.

 

[Synobun]

They want to emulate a flavor profile because the real thing bears too much of an environmental or ethical cost to them. It's also difficult to cut out a foundation of your diet if you've been eating it for literal decades.

It sounds like you're in favour of the Impossible Burger/other beet-based burgers since you said you want restaurants to offer a good non-meat burger, and you can't really have that unless that kind of product is first popularized.

 

[AmazonQueen]

I don't understand impossible burgers or any kind of plant based food that tries to imitate meat flavors. Like why? What's the point? A good black bean burger tastes just fine but it doesn't taste like beef, nor should it. It's a different food item entirely. It'd be like if we tried to make falafel taste like beef kebabs. Why? Falafel is great as is. I love salmon and turkey burgers too, well salmon I prefer filets on a sandwich rather than a ground patty, but guess what, they don't taste like beef burgers. They taste like turkey and salmon. We should just embrace plant based foods for what they are and evolve our palates and offerings beyond salads and steamed side dishes as the only vegetable options. I would totally eat a black bean burger or eggplant parm or many other things if places offered them and put effort into them rather than just throwing them on the menu to appease non meat eaters. Many places will make their own fresh beef patties but then use pre made frozen bean patties. And I need a lot of protein, most non meat dishes don't incorporate enough.

I tend to agree. Its why I don't bother with quorn or other pretend meat products. If you're trying to give up or reduce meat consumption things that don't really taste like or have the texture of meat but try to imitate it aren't going to help.
They are just going to remind you of how much you like meat. Better to find veggie/vegan meals you do enjoy.

 

[jarred!]

Relatedly, and maybe surprisingly based on their 'real' beef options, taco bell caters well to nonmeat eaters. It's what I eat when on the road.
Finding out McDonald's adds beef fat to their friers was gross, to me, but I haven't eaten there since I was a kid.

 

[Farm Boy]

Lots of fried food has small quantities of animal tallow/fat in the oil. If it's fried and not explicitly touted as vegetarian, you kind of need to assume that it isn't.

 

[jarred!]

There are plenty of things, not just fried foods, that can easily be made vegan but aren't, like cane sugar.

McDonald's famously switched from using beef fat to using veg oil, but still add beef flavoring to the fries at the processing plants. They were sued and settled for $10mil payment but continue to add beef flavor.