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Discussion in 'Civ3 - Stories & Tales' started by BuckyRea, Jan 23, 2010.

  1. Sima Qian

    Sima Qian 太史令

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    @need my speed

    D'oh! I forgot to say you should start a single player game (with all 31 civs enabled). I'll turn that into a hotseat game for you. If you give me a hotseat game with 8 civs, I can't help you :(
     
  2. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    Doesn't mater (much). :p

    However, seeing as I am now on another PC, I can't get to my map / savegame, thus I would like it if you told me (and others) how to do convert a single player map into a hotseat one. I will edit this post with my savegame when I can get to it though.

    EDIT: Here's the savegame:
    http://rapidshare.com/files/352377047/Conquests_Autosave_4000_BC.SAV.html

    Thanks!
     
  3. Sima Qian

    Sima Qian 太史令

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    Try this -- though I think you might be a little surprised by the result.

    The method to this madness will have to wait till another post.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    Yes I am, but probably not in the way you expected me to be.

    You see, once I start the second turn, the game crashes. It probably would already crash in the first turn if I had pressed F6, as when I opted to view the big picture, upon having the scientific advisor ask me what technology I would like to research, it only showed 3 (or something like that) technology's, an error with all kinds of strange characters (normal a's and e's and such, but with ' and 2 points and that kind of things on them). So, it doesn't work...Still, thanks.

    EDIT: Very strange, I decided to start it again to take a screenshot of the error, but now it works...More thanks are advaning to the frontlines. :p

    Why would I be surprised by the way?
     
  5. Sparthage

    Sparthage Fighting Tyranny

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    I was just looking at the map on the front page and realized that it looks like the Earth. I looked through your posts and saw that you say you didn't design it. Am I the only one who thinks this, or am I just seeing things?
     
  6. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    Maybe. but now that you say it, you're right. Atlan is America, Euria Asia. and that continent where Japan (?) and co started Australia.
     
  7. Arexander

    Arexander Trucker

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    Yes, but he said he took random continents with 70% water. But it looks a lot like Earth! :lol:
     
  8. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    Well Sima, it again happened. When I added the Egyptians, and again, didn't press F6 the first turn, thus, when in the second turn, the technology advisor popped up and I pressed view the big picture, the game again crashed...Is this a bug or what? But, I think it does work when I press F6 in the first turn...Which I'll do now.

    EDIT: And indeed, that way, it does work. So, everytime (?) the scientific advisor pops up and I press 'view tehe big picture', the game crashes...
     
  9. Sparthage

    Sparthage Fighting Tyranny

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    Exciting stuff going on now. It's also nice to see that I don't need glasses yet.
     
  10. BuckyRea

    BuckyRea Boldly Going

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    I call this effect "Martian canals"--the natural tendency of the human mind to project order and familiarity onto randomness and the void. When Percival Lowell first peered thru his spyglass as Mars, the natural distortion of the reflected light garbled through the filter of Earth's atmosphere gave an uneven appearance to the actually quite uniform appearance of Mars when viewed from outer space.

    But because the human mind rejects randomness and always seeks to find patterns and order--or seeks to impose them when necessary--on the chaos of nature, Lowell's brain tricked him into thinking he was looking at an elaborate and fixed global canal network on the Martian surface. From that he deduced such megastructures must me "man" made, and from that deduced that Mars must support an dominant intelligent species with quite advanced engineering ability.

    Of course no such canals ever existed. It was just Percival's mind playing tricks on him. But we all create our own Martian canals from random data--the human face in the tree bark, the unicorn in the cloud, the lover's accusation in the miscast joke. It's the web we weave whether or not we seek to self-deceive.

    In truth, it is a random map. A thousand years from now you'll see this for yourself. Don't worry, I mean a thousand game years. Our story will resume after this weekend and I've finished inputting my grades and can clock out of the so called "reality".
     
  11. BuckyRea

    BuckyRea Boldly Going

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    If it's alright with you and not too much bother, I'd like to try this too.

    (I think) I'm attaching a .SAV file with 31 flavors as ordered. No big hurry on this, but you've really got me curious now.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Sima Qian

    Sima Qian 太史令

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    Yowch, Bucky! You forced me to get off my tush and deal with compressed saves. I guess I'll have to make this easier on everyone sooner or later. Oh well, see if this works for you.

    Caution: you won't be able to reload while in-game; you will need to exit back to the main screen (ctrl-shift-Q) in order to load a new game.

    Also, interesting tidbit about those Martian canals -- the concept of "canals" seems to be the result of the observations of Giovanni Schiaparelli followed by a mistranslation from the Italian word for "channels": canali. Channels can be natural, but canals are definitely constructed by some intelligent civilization....
     

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  13. BuckyRea

    BuckyRea Boldly Going

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    Oops, sorry about that. I didn't appreciate how big it'd get with 31 tribes. The .sav file jumped in size from 188 K to 4.65 megs! My bad, totally.

    Yes, Schiaparelli's word choice definitely framed Lowell's mindset about what he could expect to find. And thus--Holy Heisenberg, Batman!--he found what he was anticipating might be there! His "maps" of the canals are a blast. Last summer I started laying out a civ 3 map based on what a terraformed Mars would look like, but it took forever (even with 50% ocean cover and a massive and unpassable Mons Olympus in the middle of the big continent).

    When I get back at it this summer, I'll probably have to start thinking about different luxuries, since my guess is that Martians would hate incense and fuchsia dyes.
     
  14. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    Well, the error keeps happining, even when I didn't press view the big picture but simply pressed ok and then pressed F6...But, I have a screenshot of it:

     
  15. Sima Qian

    Sima Qian 太史令

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    @need my speed

    We need to take this discussion offline and stop spamming Bucky's thread. Check your PMs.
     
  16. BuckyRea

    BuckyRea Boldly Going

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    A Pieceful Race:
    The Netherlands in the 2nd Millennium BCC

    The proto-Hollanders were an inquisitive and ingenious people. They were accomplished farmers, harvesting satisfactory crop yields from even the wettest of the lowlands. They were industrious fishermen, plundering sealife for winter meals in even the most treacherous of storms. And they excelled at the challenging, festive sport of sealhunting. Yet for all their plenty and wealth, they rarely seemed in prehistory to be a greedy people. They traded, but rarely went to war. They haggled incessantly, but never relented to bloodshed, for yesterday's adversary may yet be tomorrow's customer. They preferred to dance, or "go clubbing" as they called it. Perhaps it was the exhaustingly cold climate that made them forsake violence. Maybe it was the abundance of game and the endless grassy expanse of the Far North that made the lowlanders of the MidNorth less brutal than other tribes of the cruel Second Millennium BCC. But for whatever alternative outlet they found, the Dutch predilection toward trade shaped Netherlandic culture to be unique among the world's ancient peoples.


    Expanding commerce led to the development of the rudiments of Dutch mathematics after 1700bcc. Before 1600bcc, Dutch courts were employing English style writing to represent their mathematical equations and tax records. Sometime after 1500bcc, they also followed another English example and sent an ambassador to the reclusive Spanish kingdom of Madrid, even if just to confirm how backward the superstitious Spanish were. To the stubbornly practical Dutch, the mishmash of Madridian mysticism was confusing and greatly unnecessary.

    In 1425bcc, the Netherlanders and their colonies entered the Iron Age and, inspired by the example of their southern neighbors, began struggling to develop philosophy—although attempts to directly learn philosophizing from the obscure English, even in exchange for ironworking technology, proved fruitless. Despotic strongmen established control over dozens of unaffiliated city-states in the MidNorthern Lowlands, but always ruled with the consent of the local merchants. Trade and peace persisted across the complex commercial networks of the MidNorth. Few wars broke out between the city-states for to engage in them would interfere in the all important business of trade. The only war worth noting came between 1350-1300bcc, when the Dutch bandits engaged in plundering raids against the Magyar barbarians of the Equatorial Jungle.

    Where the Dutchman regarded the Spanish as superstitious, the Spaniard viewed his northern neighbor as decadent and shallow. Rather than mingle too closely with the devout Spanish, Dutch settlers pushed ever further north to the harsher climates of the Hagland and the North Sea coast. As a result Dutch population, while still growing, ceased to be so dominant among the ancient world's peoples.


    A unique Dutch system of philosophy evolved by 1250bcc, the year that the first Great Wonder of the ancient world was completed—the Colossus of Handel. The cultivation of philosophy by the Dutch did not coincide with development of map making, as was the case with the English. Perhaps it was because the Colossus of Handel drew so many traders from around the coastline, the Dutch didn't need to create maps. Other tribes came to them to barter. But the most significant development by the end of the 2nd millennium BCC was the emergence of a learned upper class in the leading city-states of Amsterdam and Rotterdam. It is estimated that by 1000bc, as many as 3% of the population could be called literate, perhaps due to increasing longevity across the Netherlands at this time.
     
  17. BuckyRea

    BuckyRea Boldly Going

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    Between the Devils and
    the Deep Green Seas:

    Pacifika in the 2nd Millennium BCC

    Between 1850 and 1800bcc, Japanese craftsmen began to experiment in rudimentary iron working skills that would come to define the superiority of Japanese weaponry. By 1800bcc, as a new wave of American nomads swarmed into Honshu Plateau around 1800bcc for extorting more gifts and tributes from the Japanese, the men of Nihon this time were able to resist the assaults. Unfortunately they lacked the nearby iron deposits and more advanced metalworking skills to field significant numbers of iron weaponed troops to fully repel the invasion.


    Tribal wars raged across central Pacifika. American raiders plundered the southern hinterlands in a devastating sweep across farm and pasture, recorded in Japanese legends as the Kyoto Discords. However when the conquerors reached Kyoto, they encountered a much fiercer resistance than planned, Japanese weaponry and defense tactics proved too much for the invaders; the American "devils" were humiliated and driven away... for a time.


    Despite their surprise victory against the Americans in Kyoto, Japan was devastated by the invasion. Seeing the early victories in the southern campaign, Polynesian raiders from the north slipped past Japanese lookouts in the Hokkaido Desert and swarmed down onto the central plateau as well.



    For over a century the Kyoto Discords convulsed the continent. American, Polynesian, even native Japanese bandits roamed the remote areas of Japan, plundering and robbing and training the once peace loving populace in the crafts of war. With spear, arrow, club, stone mace, and bronze sword, plundering gangs harassed gentle Nihon and sent the booty south to America where great fortunes were built on the exploit of Japanese sweat and blood. For young American braves "going up to the Plateau" was a rite of passage to manhood. A few summers spent on pillage and plunder developed the warrior spirit and guaranteed the valiant a place in the afterlife, which primitive Yankee shamans called "the Big Time." The daimyos of Kyoto and their warmen, legendary heroes like Susamajii the Fierce and Savate the Handless held off the raiders from the central vale throughout the 1700s. But gradually the chaos surrounding their civilization whittled down their reserves. A steady stream of settlers moved out to the less dangerous coastal areas—Osaka by the Crystalline Waters on the west coast and the Tokyo drift along the eastern shores they called the "Green Expanse."

    Gradually gathering strength and growing bolder, the bandit lords ventured closer still to the Kyoto heartland. Reinforcements arriving from the southwest under a new warchief, Hoover. Hoover was a quiet, calculating man, a leader who always challenged his troops to acts of individual valor and initiative. So total were his deprivations on the Japanese economy, so fierce were his bloody footsteps upon the Japanese ground that his men came to call him "The Quaker."

    Under Hoover the Yanks were able finally to conquer the old Japanese capital in 1700 and install a dynasty of American overlords to rule the province. The Hoover dynasty immediately had to compete with the northern Polynesian raiders, drawn by the chaos of war and seeking to displace the Hoovers as masters of the central Honshu Plateau. For 25 years war ranged across the Kyoto Highlands until the last of the Polynesians were driven off.


    Hoover renamed the conquered communities Amu-Kyoto. Rather that merely plunder, Hoover had made himself lord of a small empire.
     
  18. BuckyRea

    BuckyRea Boldly Going

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    Growing Up: America expands

    Following the establishment of the Kingdom of Amu-Kyoto under the Hoovers, a small diaspora of Kyotan subjects and lesser nobles cascaded out from the Japanese heartland. Refugees flooded into Osaka while others fled east and north toward the fabled lands of incense in the spirit-haunted Fuji Mountains. With the Japanese nations in chaos, the Americans overran the Kyoto farmlands in the early (or higher) 1600s BCC. The rest of the Japanese realms, galvanized by the fall of the old city state, divided into two rival kingdoms—Osaka and Tokyo.


    After a generation of plunder, the American lords of Amu-Kyoto ceased ravaging the lands and began to settle in as more responsible leaders. The Hooverites turned north to drive off the Polynesian savages and guard the peasants descended from the very peasants they had once threatened (and in many cases, peasants also partly descended from their American overlords). They adapted to the drier Japanese climate, and developed a palate for the spicier foods of the north. Their eating habits became less barbaric, too (the parental warning to children "Don't Hoover up your food" dates from this ancient epoch when American barbarians gradually acculturated themselves to courtly manners).


    The independent Japanese civilization in the east centered at Tokyo in 1625bcc began to face further raids by tribal barbarians from the Sakae Jungle. Around 1600bcc Yankee filibusters were engaged in this conflict as well. At times the Sakaes and Americans fought each other over who would get to plunder a particular Tokyonese spice plantation, but these conflicts were rarely sustained. The main business was the plunder of valuable spices and the destruction of Tokyonese patrols.


    Under these deprivations—soon joined in on by the nomadic Polynesian raiders from across the Hokkaido Desert—the kingdom of Tokyo never grew beyond a mere subsistence. Possibly influenced by Byzantine traders, the defenders of Osaka in these years began to learn how to build community fortifications using masonic stoneworks. Japanese efforts to settle the incense rich sacred Fuji Mountains north of the Hokkaido Desert were crushed by Polynesian raiders, who also claimed the Fujis as their sacred homelands.

    American culture flourished in the 16th Century BCC, experiencing a small trade boom in conjunction with the development of ironworking technology. The indirect influence of the conquest of Amu-Kyoto led to increased homesteading in the south. Victim of its own success, the Americans' revered nomadic lifestyle was ending and a new era dawning. Fortunately for the Americans' revered violent lifestyle, that new era would still involve a lot of killing and plundering. The continent, after all, was theirs for the taking.

    Spoiler big map :


    During the 16th Century BCC, usage of the Byzantine alphanumeric writing system began to appear in the decorations and iconography of Japanese pottery and architecture. Harassment from American barbarians fell off in this period, but the Western Kingdom of Osaka was harassed by Ainus and Polynesians and the Eastern Kingdom at Tokyo faced invasions from Sakae and Polynesians. Between 1450 and 1400bcc, the Mikado of Osaka sent out his greatest war parties to crush the Polynesians harassing the north, though this risked exposing the weakened kingdom to conquest by the Ainu or Americans.

    Spoiler tactical misstep :


    The glory was great, but the risk proved greater. The war with the Polynesians exhausted with Osaka and with his archers occupied many miles to the north, the Mikado found himself ripe for an attack by the Americans from Kyoto.
     
  19. BuckyRea

    BuckyRea Boldly Going

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    Decline and Fall of the Japanese Empire

    Sometime after 1400bcc, the Americans located and begin exploiting distant iron sources atop Mount Hawai'i, located at the halfway point between Amu-Kyoto and the Virginia Plain. In 1375, the Yanks returned to raiding the Western Japanese after they were weakened by their war on Polynesia.

    Amu-Kyoto warlords led their bands down into the Osaka Valley, occupying the main Osakan farmlands. In the front of the column rode the ruthless Yankee warprince, Jedgar, a direct descendant of Hoover, with a plan to starve the Osakan into submission. With his loyal retinue of black-clad Phed'heral Guard around him, Jedgar occupied the villages and hamlets between the two warring kingdoms and forced pledges of loyalty upon the peasantry. The Phed'heral Guard were proficient archer divided into three companies. The Mikado of Osaka began to round up the peasants of the hinterlands and bring them inside the capital's straw and wooden fortifications, setting off a panic among the populace. The name Jedgar became a synonym for fear and terror in the Osakan tongue.


    Jedgar dispatched one of his three Phed'heral archers into the Kyoto highlands to vanquish the Osakan spearmen holding that high ground, while the rest of his troop wintered in Osaka's lush farmlands and cut off food from entering the city itself. Unprepared for a siege, the starving defenders of Osaka quickly fell to the Yanks in the spring campaign and the Mikado taken captive. Now Jedgar held in his grasp a city full of residents convinced his next move would be to initiate a policy of cannibalism.

    Warchief Robbertoover of Animal House


    Riots broke out in Kyoto following the execution of the Mikado of Osaka. The conquest was on the verge of proving unmanageable to the victorious conquerors. The Phed'heral Guard acted quickly to bring peace. The warcaptain of the archers, Magarthor, betrayed his lord and slew him in the town square, then proclaimed himself the American Mikado. With the Hoover Dynasty replaced by the Magarthor Dynasty, the Kyotans settled down and eventually accepted foreign rule. Relations with Jedgar's father Robbertoover in Amu-Kyoto were strained, but the American ritual of rule by personal combat was far too ancient and respected a tradition for the barbarian's leader to justify civil war.

    The American march to conquer Pacifika continued. Gradually, around this time, after centuries of resisting the natives' "devil signs," the American overclass ruling Kyoto and Osaka began to adopt the Byzanto-Japanese hieroglyphics for labeling property and issuing decrees to their Amu-Nihonese subjects. Over many generations this would evolve into the simplistic early American "writing" system—something still scorned as civilized and for many centuries effete southward in the American heartland.
    With the finalization of the Great Einenhauser Highway (literally the "one-house" highway) joining North and South America, however, the eventual adoption of the alphabet, along with many other hallmarks of civilization, the domestication of the American warrior was inevitable.

    In the east the Tokyonese Kingdom spread northward, even founding the colony of Edo in the sacred Fuji Mountains. Polynesian warbands, who also claimed the Fujis as a sacred site, warred on the troubled Tokyonese. With a growing onslaught from new waves of American warriors, the Mikado of Tokyo doubled his military force by forced conscription. As with Osaka, harassment by Polynesian proved too troublesome to ignore, despite the great threat from the south and west.

    The Mikado sent an army to finally dispatch the troublesome nomads in 1025bcc, but did not pursue them to extinction as many of his subjects demanded. The relentless threat from the American barbarians still remained and the storm clouds gathered. Preparing for the invasion, the Japanese developed horse mounted fighting skills to prepare new defenses against the Yanks. Sadly, Tokyo lacked access to the horse herds needed to put a significant cavalry in the field.

    They also lacked the raw manpower to resist Yankee aggression, with more than one half of the continent's ethnic Japanese living under American rulers. American bandit incursions grew bolder and bolder.
     
  20. Sparthage

    Sparthage Fighting Tyranny

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    I see now that the Celts and Japanese and Americans all share the same continent. This could lead to some interesting wars:D.
     

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