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Discussion in 'Civ3 - Stories & Tales' started by BuckyRea, Jan 23, 2010.

  1. BuckyRea

    BuckyRea Boldly Going

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    Byzantium in the 3rd millennium BCC

    Anatolia and Thrace developed the most advanced architecture in the world during the Bronze Age. The first true cities grew along the Dardanelle and Adrian Rivers.


    Byzantine masonry came into full development by 2900bc, with the growing trade routes and prosperity of the northern civilization. Urbanization led to the construction of strong, fortified cities and the design of sophisticated buildings, tall to resist the bitter northern winters. By 2700bc they were in contact with the Iroquois civilization. In 2230bc, Byzantine freebooters, out searching for new sources of stone and marble, plundered the Kazakh tribes east of Iroquoia.


    By 2150bc, Byzantine warriors had adapted the fighting techniques of the Celts while a trickle of crafts trade transpired between Thrace and Gaul.
     
  2. BuckyRea

    BuckyRea Boldly Going

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    Spain in the 3rd millennium BCC

    The Spanish remained a reclusive and unambitious culture for many centuries, developing a more mystical and spiritually complex society—rituals of fire, blood, and water saturated Spanish civilization. Gradually they evolved a system of higher and lower deities and spirits in their religious society. But the distinctive Spanish focus of religion more than trade or warfare created a peaceful and unique civilization in antiquity. By the 23rd century BC they were domesticating plants for their dyes used for the colorful garments and bodily decorations distinctive to their nascent religious festivals.


    Prehistoric Spanish pottery, despite its distinctive coloring and unique clay composition, showed the influence of English pottery techniques when they emerged in the mid 22nd Century BC.
     
  3. BuckyRea

    BuckyRea Boldly Going

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    Okay, so much for the prelude. At this point I've got my eight world civilizations up, running, and (hopefully) demonstrating different characteristics. They should start talking to each other more in the next millennium. The analogies are imperfect, of course, but some of them seem to have strategies similar to early real world societies. Like the Iroquois remind me of the Egyptians (at this point in the game the plan was to position them to develop the great pyramids) which makes the Celts more like the Assyrians or Hittites who were always trying to conquer Egypt.

    I let the game randomly assign these civs, otherwise there wouldn't be a Netherlands or Byzantium in this game. The Dutch strike me as being sort of Greco-Phonician like; the Byzos are also trade focused, but having stronger neighbors might better been seen as Mesopotamians in a very cold climate.

    England's being surrounded by barbs and having no immediate civ-neighbors makes them seem Chinese-like (plus they have the world's silk supply). The Americans are going to be more like the Huns, as they seem to be starting on an always-war strategy. The Spanish are more like those big blue critters from Avatar, but hopefully they'll come off as less lame. Plus the game doesn't have a cloud city tech available.

    That's how I'm seeing and roleplaying the civs at this point. The game itself is played up through 800ad on my computer.

    Questions and feedback welcome. Since several people correctly guessed who's the doomed civ too quickly, the next challenge is... what civ do you think will go republic first and what civ will quit despotism last?

    I don't understand this question. What do you mean "level of peace treaty"?
     
  4. Daeron

    Daeron The Apprentice

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    I'm guessing the Byzantines are the first to Republic. The last civ to leave Despotism, I'm thinking the Americans.

    Why wouldn't you have selected the Byzantines and Dutch yourself, do you consider seafaring in combination with their other trait a little too good in this type of game?

    When you assign a focus on trade to a civ, does that mean for instance that they look beyond the one trade, but also consider options like selling the bought tech to a third civ?
     
  5. BuckyRea

    BuckyRea Boldly Going

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    My gripes are asthetic rather than game-based.

    For the Byzos it's their UU, which I think it unbalancing. It shows up far too early in the game and kicks too much ass. I dunno, maybe it's just a prejudice thing, since you could say the same about the Persians' immortals and just love playing the Persians. I guess I'm just biased in favor of the Vanilla civs.

    My complaint with the Dutch is similar--I can't overrun their UU as easy--plus I didn't see the point in having a new European civ when there were so many different SE Asian and a Subsaharan civilizations not being included in the expansion packs. It's really not much of a complaint, actually, since I love the game, and there are plenty of mods on this site that can give me games with Ethiopians and Khmer and Sioux to my nerdy heart's delight

    It means they'll build roads and markets first and are a little slower to go to war. After the planet they're on gets to an age of exploration, they're more likely to go sailing in search of new markets, but I don't think it'd make sense to have them do that yet.

    I find I'm not playing as aggressive a game when I'm being all eight players. But also, knowing the dangers lurking out there better, I seem to be building workers less than I normally do.
     
  6. Daeron

    Daeron The Apprentice

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    Thanks for the answers, to each his own I guess, I could never hate Thea. :love:
     
  7. BuckyRea

    BuckyRea Boldly Going

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    Carved Words: Iroquoia in the 2nd millennium BCC

    Before there was writing, there was printing. Before man learned to draw a quill across paper—indeed, before man could make paper—he learned to scratch. First, he scratched to count. Priests and tax-collectors (in ancient Hudsonian River Valley civilization, the two offices were indistinguishable) would tally the lots of hay and maize each native farmer owed the local despot, their sachems and chief. Five bales and two goats from one family, 10 bales and seven goats from the wealthier family further up the Hudson, three baskets of fish from the family that lived by the lake. This is how they paid their lords, their sachems and warchiefs, who guided the peaceful farming society. In time an upper class of warriors arose to monopolize wealth and enjoy the lion's share of the society's luxuries.

    Then, in those rare times of plenty, families began to trade among themselves, seasonal trade posts arose, and pottery became the first storage units of the early trade fairs. To distinguish one trader's wares from another, Iroquoian farmer merchants evolved the first written communication before there was actual writing. Each tradesman printed his personal seal onto the pots of goods his farm and sweat had wrought. One family imprinted an ox and arrow on their goods; another pressed a simple symbol—a crescent moon or a stylized eagle—on their jars. Each man's print was his guarantee, I ground this cornmeal; my wife wove this flaxen vest; my slaves hammered this leather into a soft bedroll. And so the first advertising and the first printing arose in the world. A simple language, an assurance of man's quality of craft, a shorthand for indentifying a favored product, even perhaps the beginnings of heraldry, all contained in the simple pressing of images into the pliable baked pottery of Iroquoian clay. With the growth of specialized labor in society, Iroquoian culture grew.


    Next came the scribes. Lacking ink producing squid and dye producing plants along the Caribite Coast, their first writing on clay tablets used the natural carbons of burnt woods and the greenish resin of copper-ash boiled into otter oils to fashion the first inks capable of marking the produce held in pottery. By 2000bcc, they employed a full spectrum of paints to bring color and decor to the clay walls of the great cities, Salamanca and Allegheny. The economy flourished and local chieftains began to have lesser sachems, the first scribes, dedicate their crafts to counting and auditing taxes—in silver and grain—handed over to the city chiefs. Around 1830bc, more advanced mathematics allowed the development of calculating future revenues. The legends hold it was then that men invented greed.


    In time the superior location of Allegheny allowed the tributary city to surpass Salamanca in population, trade, and wealth. But the jealous downriver tyrants refused to send troops to maintain calm among the people. Flourishing trade led to prosperity, and a disparity of wealth. Some grew rich, some grew poor, and many in the middle grew desperate. The overarching cycles of continental Iroquoian civilization emerged. Prosperity led to disparity, deprivation led to riots and chaos. Peasants turned on lords and lords turned to soldiers to quiet their own people down. The gifts and attentions of scribes led to the great violence of ancient Iroquois civilization.


    In short, it was early mathematics that first gave men social unrest.
     
  8. BuckyRea

    BuckyRea Boldly Going

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    The First Dynasties of Iroquoia

    The first dynasty of tyrants emerged just after 1700bcc, uniting the myriad warchiefs and matriarchy councils under one despotism. Strong men ruled each of the hamlets and villages up and down the Hudson and Connecticut valleys. But they all answered to the Tyrant of Salamanca, Docetus, the legendary first dynasty warchief credited with ending the raids by Carib hillfolks from the east.


    Social turbulence resumed in the 16th century BCC as waves of pandemic infections swept through the upper Connecticut Valley through the rest of the first dynasty. By 1500bcc, in terms of craft skills, the Iroquois had technologically entered the Iron Age. But the lands they controlled lacked iron deposits enough for their advanced fire wrangling to impact daily life. Iron tools were ceremonial and rare, reserved for the court warcaptains, and never exposed in the field of combat.

    Still, the warchiefs of the valleys learned to benefit from violent contact with the hated Celts in this period. Repeated invasion from these most vicious of barbarians led to the adoption of Celtic-style warrior codes. The Gauls themselves from successful plundering and kidnapping of math-sachems, eventually acquired the basic workings of mathematics. Even in war, culture diffused among mankind. Around 1500bcc the Second Dynasty arose under the Iroquois lords who finally established military control over a distant supply of iron in the south of Euria. Toleous the Seeker violently displaced the Ainu tribesmen with whom earlier lords had traded with to secure the iron. Toleous found it cheaper to pay in blood instead and spare the Iroquoian trinkets those savages craved.


    Control of the distant Iron Hills became the commanding political goal of each OverTyrant. Around 1425bcc, an Iroquois war party led by Covegius the Ruthless drove off a renewed Ainu band in what became known as the War of the Volcano Year. Covegius arrayed his warbands and marched back to Salamanca and established himself as patriarch of the Third Dynasty. But control of this distant resource remained a struggle and the Iroquois themselves lacked the transportation technology to quickly establish a colony so far to the east. More wars followed and in 1250bcc, they had penetrated as far east as the Isthmus of Sarosima and driven the surviving Ainu into their native bogs.


    War for the Control of the Iron Hills of Caribia



    Around 1150bcc, some Iroquois herdsmen successfully mastered horsemanship, adding greatly to the range of land the Iroquoian tyrants could exert control over. The Iron Hills saw more visits by mining parties and the flourishing of Iroquois culture of the 12th Century spread out to the interior valleys. Again, a familiar cycle of overpopulation and riot led to the fall of the Fifth Dynasty. The crowding and violence of the 12th Century BCC eventually allowed the Tyranny of Cattaraugus and the renegade Poison River villages to become politically independent of the Tyranny of Salamanca. For a while the interior became politically dominant. Tanaguarag the Owl was the great conqueror leader of Cattaraugan legends. He spent a lifetime in futilely trying to conquer Oil Springs and the lesser Poison River lands, but the people there proved fiercely independent.



    One certainty of Iroquoian civilization was that chaos followed wherever culture flourished. The upper Hudson's Tyranny of Cattaraugus soon saw drought years and food riots in the late 11th Century and soon the ancient matriarchal councils reasserted their leadership in these interior settlements. With the imposition of more taxes and a system of judges and soldiers selected by the matriarchs, the villages of young Cattaraugus calmed and the Hudson Valley, now less aggressive, gradually stabilized.
     
  9. wolf_brother

    wolf_brother King

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    Wow, just wow. Subscribed!
    I love your attention to detail - both in your maps and your naming of things, but also that these are civilizations - not nation-states, and as such they don't have a central, godly, omnipresent control (ie, you're treating this like an actual history of people, not a player's gamelog).
     
  10. BuckyRea

    BuckyRea Boldly Going

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    Bronze and Gold: England in the 2nd millennium BCC

    Sometime between 2000 and 1900bcc, the English converted their simple pictographic system of symbols and craftsmen's imprints into an alphabet for writing. This was a response to the needs of English shamans needing to record the complex rituals and chaotic panoply of gods in the Hispano-English mythology inherited from the Spanish. Both English mysticism and polytheism were borrowed from the Spanish lands. Although the religious life of all the primitive cultures of South Atlan found their origins the rituals of the more spiritually focused Spaniards, virtually none of the southern peoples quite got around to inheriting Spain's ethical pacifism—particularly not the continent's dominant military power, the English. While these cultures grew more resilient and intellectually complex for the influence of the Spanish "Omphalic Land", to the English religion would rarely be more than a cultural adornment, not a raison d'être.


    On the other hand, the impact of writing on the English would be far more important and wide ranging than that of religion. The first pictographs recorded the first English destruction of the Ostragoths. A generation later the aging heroes of that epoch launched a similar assault on the ivory trading Seljuk Empire, but met with less success. For an era the English ceased their attempts to commandeer the ivory trade.


    Early in their history, the English seemed to take it upon themselves to become the slayers of barbarians. They engaged in almost constant warfare with the surrounding nations, none of whom could match them in cultural achievements and nearly all of whom they eventually subjugated. It may be that geography destined the Englands for this role, as they were located in the southern extreme of South Atlan—home to so many different backward tribes, most of them seminomadic.

    map
    Spoiler :



    But regardless of cause, in 1800bcc English warriors began raiding the peaceful, forest dwelling Vandals of Placid Bay, descendants of the tribes first driven from the eastern Englands 12 centuries before. The violence was brutal and unrelenting, with the bellicose Englishmen displaying their customary aplomb in the face of battle. After a century of military glories, the English were driven from Vandalia. For a few generations trade resumed between the Vandal tribes and the English, but warfare and the lust for tribute would return in later centuries.

    The old English saying, Where iron leads, gold follows seems (ironically) to date from the Bronze Age. This hint of future technology appeared in the oldest extant record of trade from "Hoghland"—the ancient English name for the Netherlands—recorded in court pictographs. By the year 1625bcc, when Phoenician scribes carved the Hoghland Tablet, distant commerce with the Netherlands began influencing the English to begin adopting Dutch-style mathematical computations. Inscriptions from the Sussex Menher (c. 1550bcc) depict a legendary general, Nosamuth, calculating the killing power of his bronze-sworded warriors recruited from around the Englands for a renewed drive against the elephant worshiping Seljuks. No record of Nosamuth's actual exploits survive to this day, but the famed English ivory crafts date from the 16th Century BCC, so the campaign must have been at least somewhat successful. With new ivory and silk gifts in hand, the English took the tremendous leap of establishing embassies with the far MidNorthern civilizations of the Dutch and Spanish.
     
  11. BuckyRea

    BuckyRea Boldly Going

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    English Iron Age Culture
    Lord Shahar brings the Dawn;
    Lord Geats protects the land.


    English political organization in the dawn of history was either a contradiction in terms or a comic understatement. The word "king" from the Proto-Umbrian word "quinogh" was a flexible term and could refer to any leader from the semi-divine grandee of Phoenicia, claiming descent from the Sun God Shahar, to a landless Welsh bandit captain from the Upper Thames ragweed swamps. Ranks of nobles were a hodgepodge of historic family bonds, newly acquired levy-rights from vassal lords, and forgotten primogeniture claims of eccentric ancient families. In the Middle Iron Age it would not be unheard of for a frontier baron to have among his armed men a swordsman who claimed the familial title of king, although such a king would doubtless be one of the landless sort.

    The eccentricities of English political life added to the traditions of independent minded people. These were the people who, by 1400bcc, were starting to develop the practice of philosophy, an inadequate but necessary precursor to science. Modern paleohistorians are certain that it was the development of map making techniques that specifically led to the breakthrough toward philosophizing. The first philosopher by tradition was Cruithne ben-Thamus, who speculated on the nature of water and soil at the court of Sussex. One of the early inscriptions of the Venerable Bhohb supposedly captures the now lost teachings of Cruithne.

    Hrêðe (Hretha) hideth glory between the swell of the waves,
    That the fisherman nets and the ploughjogger craves,
    But the husband of soil pours his seed out like Geats (Gutaniz)
    On an earth tinged in metals amid trees bearing Fates.


    Eventually
    Cruithne ben-Thamus attributed the different qualities of earth and sea to characteristics of the gods that made them—a distinct break from the Spanish tradition of attributing the forces of nature to the vagaries of the gods. The habit of adding a why to each religious pronouncement became the salient feature of English druidism. The pragmatic English kept trying to make their versions of the Spanish gods make sense. By 1275bcc a corresponding questioning of nature led to the English mastering of iron smithing as well.

    The English continued to dominate the southern continent through wars on those who did not defer to them. English warriors proved the superiority of their iron weapons—no other South Atlanians had advanced beyond the Bronze Age and for most coppersmithing was the furthest their metallurgy had advanced. Superior English weaponry, as stronger, less weighty iron weapons gave English swordsmen a longer cutting range than their opponents. Before the millennium was out, the closest non English kingdom had been subjugated and reduced to tributary status.


    In 1025bcc, ancient King Kanivir of Tyre raided and sacked the Meridiagoth tribes living south of his realm. Sadly, the English had targeted the wrong barbarians, for the Seljuks tribes were allied to the Meridiagoths. The eastern ivory trade, inadequate trickle that it was, was halted. In 1000bcc, English ivory speculators ventured into Seljuk territory, attempting to barter for renewal of the lucrative ivory trade or establish an ivory colony rival to the savages. The English were foolishly underarmed and the Seljuk cannibals asserted their monopoly in the horrific Aral Sea Massacre.


    The savage Seljuk Empire was at its zenith, at this time finally breaching the gap from copper to bronze technology, and war was now afoot.
    (Yes, a cliffhanger)
     
  12. Sparthage

    Sparthage Fighting Tyranny

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    Wow, I've had that happen to me WAY too often. I walk up to a nice resource and what do you know, there's a nice barbarian waiting for me.
     
  13. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    First of all, this is turning out to be a great story. I really love the idea behind it. I also have once thought to do something like this, but, I don't know how. How can I for instance turn the AI off? What have you done to be able to make such a story?

    Thanks in advance, and keep updating!
     
  14. BuckyRea

    BuckyRea Boldly Going

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    You know, it may just be statistical clustering, but I've noticed that happens a lot, too, tho not all the time. For story purposes I'm just gonna say that those barbs, despite their actual lack of culture, are still out there working those elephant graveyards for the ivory, if only so they can trade it to my Englanders for the more sophisticated beads and trinkets the more advanced tribe would make.

    For game purposes, I think a normal scattering of lux's and barbs would just mean there's often likely to be a few within proximity of each other. The map generator tends to put barbs on hills, mountains, and forests and those are the three terrains most likely to have luxury resources.



    Assuming you have Play the World or Civ3 Conquests and not just vanilla , then you need to just go into Multiplayer mode. Multiplayer lets you set up a game in which 2, 3, 4, or even as many as 8 human player-controlled civs are in play for you a/o your friends.

    Now some multiplayer games require being on a LAN or using email (which I think would be ungodly dull to slog through in the early rounds--particularly when a lot of your early rounds is just a matter of hitting enter so your worker can keep digging a road).

    But what I'm doing is hot seat, in which I can play with myself. Maybe I should rephrase that.

    Note: Despite Hot Seat being played entirely on a single computer, I can't access it unless I'm hooked up to the internet, so the same might hold for you, too. Sure that doesn't make any sense. It's a requirement for all the multiplayer options besides Hot Seat, so they made that part of the game protocols.

    Also note: With Civ3 multiplayer, the game limits you to a world with only 8 civs max. Even if you play it on one of the jumbo monster mod maps that's built for a 31 civs, only 8 tribes will show up on the board. So don't get greedy and just stick with the medium or small maps. Trust me, this is a damn slow way to play the game. :)
     
  15. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    So there is no tool or way to shut the AI off? Anyway, thanks!

    EDIT: Well, I'll just play in debug mode, make an island somewhere full of rocks with on it all Settlers, and than add units when I want it (as not all civilizations start at 4000 BC), and take control of the civilizations through C3MT. I guess that is possible?

    EDIT: Well, apparantly not. Or at least, I can't figure it out. Does anyone know a tool which allows the human player to play as the AI? Or should I simply do this 'project' with Civilization 4 Beyond the Sword? Although that game lags in single player on my PC, hence I've chosen Civilization 3 Conquests.
     
  16. Sima Qian

    Sima Qian 太史令

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    Bucky, nice to see you writing again. You really do have the perspective of a history teacher!

    Now, since you and need my speed are curious:

    There is a way to get more than 8 civs in multiplayer, though you can't do it through the game. It's not very straightforward, but some day (when I can finally be arsed to do so) I may be able to supply a tool for that.

    Post a save and tell me which civs you want make human-controlled, and I might be able to help you with that.
     
  17. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    A save or a map? Anyway, I now have to go to school so I'll post it as quickly as possible. All civilizations (31) should be human controllable.
     
  18. Sima Qian

    Sima Qian 太史令

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    Either will work. Might be better to post a save since I don't know what other settings you want.

    EDIT: Autosaves preferred.
     
  19. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    Ok, I didn't make the map by the way. Note that the starting Settlers (all civilizations only start with a Settler) are unbuildable, invisible Settlers. This is because some civilizations should only appear at a later time. Other changes are:
    -No resources disappear
    -No civilizations start with any technologies or units beside Nomadic Settlers.
    -Spies are added, available with the Alphabet, they have a hidden nationality and 2 attack, defence, and move points. Upon winning a fight, they can enslave and generate a Collaborator
    -Collaborators are unbuildable, and are the same as Spies. However, they have 1 attack and defence point instead of 2, and can't enslave. Perhaps usefull for pillaging, but more so for story purpose
    -Walls also don't become obsolete, by removing their bombard strength, although their defence is increased from 50 to 100
    -No wonders become obsolete, and wonders which spawn buildings do so in all cities, not just those on the same continent

    However, what save should I use? The hotseat one? If so, that's with only 8 players. But here it is anyway, with Sumeria, Babylon, Persia, Egypt, Hitties, Ottomans, Arabians, and Greece enabled.

    *Here was a link*

    EDIT: Apparantly, some civilizations still start with Scouts. And, I forgot about king units. Than I'll have to build an island filled with all Settlers, so I can create their units when they are becoming a civilization (you know what I mean) by using a Savegame Editor. So, here is the new savegame:

    http://rapidshare.com/files/351943859/Conquests_Autosave_4000_BC.SAV.html
     
  20. BuckyRea

    BuckyRea Boldly Going

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    Wha- huh? What the...? <shakesincomprehensiblethoughtviolentlyfromhead smilyicon> You're blowing my mind, Sima. What monster have you created?
     

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