god: malevolent, powerless or non-existant?

[punkbass2000]

Go talk to a Hindu, a Buddhist, a Moslem, a Jew, a Gnostic, and a Sikh about their spiritual experiences and get back to me.

I've already done so. I don't know what makes you think people are so divided. Perhaps you think violent extremist comprise the majority of most religions?

 

[punkbass2000]

Doesn't the fact that the members of other religions who have had spiritual experiences describe it differently strike you as a bit suspicious? Either

1) There is one God and he is responding to all of you, but he gives you different experiences depending on what religion you are a member of
2) There are a multitude of Gods responding to prayers, each in his/her own unique way
3) What you are all experiencing is psychological in nature

I suppose the universe is a lie, too, since everyone experiences a different life.

 

[El_Machinae]

I suppose the universe is a lie, too, since everyone experiences a different life.

No, you're making a mistake of intention. Warpus is replying to the concept that God is an intelligent agent who willfully communicates. If He is sending wildly conflicting messages to people, then either He is lying or there are multiple gods, or people are misreading the message (which is a trail of another debate).

The universe, if it is not sentient, cannot lie. And that would be my position.

 

[Smidlee]

No, you're making a mistake of intention. Warpus is replying to the concept that God is an intelligent agent who willfully communicates. If He is sending wildly conflicting messages to people, then either He is lying or there are multiple gods, or people are misreading the message (which is a trail of another debate).

The universe, if it is not sentient, cannot lie. And that would be my position.

Or DUH! people are lying. I found out no matter how honest I try to be there are always those who will lie about me, misunderstood me, or twisted my words to misrepresent me.

(P.S that not to say everything they say/believe is a lie for most situations it only takes a small lie in a big truth to twist things in your favor. The more truth mixed in with the lie the more powerful the lie is.)

 

[mdwh]

Does the word faith have any meaning to you?

Well, faith has many different meanings.

We have to trust that we are right. If we didn't, then our existence would be pointless. We are here to see if we can trust God and do as he asks without fully understanding it. If everything was supposed to make sense, there would be no point in us being here

So you believe, because otherwise you feel existence would be pointless?

Fair enough ... but I disagree that it does. On the contrary, I don't see how a supernatural being external to the Universe affects life one way or the other - even if I did think there was a god, it wouldn't change anything for me, anymore than the existence of flying spaghetti monsters, invisible unicorns or teapots in orbit.

There is more to life, more to the world, than just human perception and logic

Perhaps, but if they are outside our perception, how can they have any influence on our existence?

 

[El_Machinae]

Or DUH! people are lying. I found out no matter how honest I try to be there are always those who will lie about me, misunderstood me, or twisted my words to misrepresent me.

Good insight, thank you.

In the long-run, maybe brain scanners will allow us to conduct experiments to determine whether people reporting the event are lying.

 

[punkbass2000]

No, you're making a mistake of intention. Warpus is replying to the concept that God is an intelligent agent who willfully communicates. If He is sending wildly conflicting messages to people, then either He is lying or there are multiple gods, or people are misreading the message (which is a trail of another debate).

Unless you realize that God is everything, and thus your entire experience is a message from him. Then everyone gets very similar messages; Science is a very good method to attempt cataloging them.

The universe, if it is not sentient, cannot lie. And that would be my position.

Well, I meant the term "lie" ambiguously. Since we all experience different lives, even if there are some commonalities, there are far too many differences to really consider it consistent.

EDIT: Incidentally, the fact that it is very difficult to explain and discuss God also makes up a lot for the variations in his interpretation. Hell, look haw many ways Science has found to describe the universe over the past millennia.

 

[punkbass2000]

Perhaps, but if they are outside our perception, how can they have any influence on our existence?

The same way we influence bacteria.

 

[El_Machinae]

Unless you realize that God is everything, and thus your entire experience is a message from him. Then everyone gets very similar messages; Science is a very good method to attempt cataloging them.

I had a variant of this thought when I was younger; I thought it was unique to my youthfully-confident brain Guess not. I also found out about Kant after I formed my ethics system. Ah, the standing on the backs of giants ...

Do you think the message from the universe is done by an intentional agency, but that agency is not you?

 

[punkbass2000]

I had a variant of this thought when I was younger; I thought it was unique to my youthfully-confident brain Guess not. I also found out about Kant after I formed my ethics system. Ah, the standing on the backs of giants ...

Great minds think alike... and so do ours.

Do you think the message from the universe is done by an intentional agency, but that agency is not you?

This is where it gets complicated. It centers around what you refer to as "I". "You" are three things: mind, body and soul. Your soul is limitless. It is constrained by your mind psychologically and your body physically. It is only because of your mind and body that a sense of self can exist. It creates the sense of separation required to have the dichotomy of "I" and "not I". So, what I call "I" is God, but not God in his entirety. You may note that this means that God is not greater than I.