god: malevolent, powerless or non-existant?
- Thread starter Guangxi
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punkbass2000
Des An artiste
Nope. Benevolent and powerful and, of course, existent.
Xanikk999
History junkie
God is neither all powerful, omniscient, benevolent or cruel, assuming he exists.
If he was all powerful he could prevent evil in the world. If he was omniscient we would have no free will. If he was benevolenet nobody would go to hell. And if he was cruel heaven wouldnt exist.
If he was all powerful he could prevent evil in the world. If he was omniscient we would have no free will. If he was benevolenet nobody would go to hell. And if he was cruel heaven wouldnt exist.
Jawz II
Oh Dear
god: malevolent, powerless or non-existant?
I say malless-existant. Malless-existant but craptastic.
I say malless-existant. Malless-existant but craptastic.
skadistic
Caomhanach
Gods are not real.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Another God debate thread 
.
God is indeed all powerful, omniscient, and benevolent.
.God is indeed all powerful, omniscient, and benevolent.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Yes he is.
No he isnt.
Yes he is.
Isn't
...
How about some discussion with substance?
No he isnt.
Yes he is.
Isn't
...
How about some discussion with substance?
Hotpoint
Rome Treaty Legions
The argument that tends to be used for the existance of evil despite there being a benevolent God is typically free will.
Unfortunately that argument is pretty shaky when you consider how many of the things people do that are "evil" apparently have an element of genetic predisposition towards such behaviour.
Any evil that results from certain people being born more likely to be jerks would be the creators fault right? He could have at least given everyone a fair and equal chance.
Unfortunately that argument is pretty shaky when you consider how many of the things people do that are "evil" apparently have an element of genetic predisposition towards such behaviour.
Any evil that results from certain people being born more likely to be jerks would be the creators fault right? He could have at least given everyone a fair and equal chance.
PrincepsAmerica
Nothingness made flesh
Oh no the generic problem of evil again. This has never been brought up. Theism is undone.
Hotpoint
Rome Treaty Legions
Nylan
Characters Welcome
Evil is of man's making, and God allows us free agency. In addition, there must be opposition in all things. Hence, the existance of evil.
He is kind, benevolent, loving, powerful, and so much more
no witty play on words (using man's definitions I might add) can change that
He is kind, benevolent, loving, powerful, and so much more
no witty play on words (using man's definitions I might add) can change that
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
In the times I have had these silly arguments about God with atheists is like talking to a wall (no offense but it's tiering to constantly over and over keep on refuting these arguments).
Xanikk999
History junkie
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
The problem with theists is that they attempt to give God ultimate qualities. All-knowing, all-powerful, all-great.
I am sure that if God exists he posesses some good qualities and some bad.. why insist that he is all-anything?
It just causes a lot of nasty paradoxes.
I am sure that if God exists he posesses some good qualities and some bad.. why insist that he is all-anything?
It just causes a lot of nasty paradoxes.
Fox Mccloud
Deity
There is more then three possible options, you know.
If it exists:
If all powerful:
It is indifferent to most things. It might be malevolent, but definitely not benevolent.
If not all powerful:
It's possible it's benevolent. Not necessarily though.
Under no circumstances is it "perfect" since perfection doesn't exist.
If all powerful:
It is indifferent to most things. It might be malevolent, but definitely not benevolent.
If not all powerful:
It's possible it's benevolent. Not necessarily though.
Under no circumstances is it "perfect" since perfection doesn't exist.
Spoiler :
That's a false dilemma, based solely on human definitions of "powerful", "benevolent", and "existent".
what have theists to say on this matter? [in the image]
I mainly take issue with the definition of "benevolent" implied here - that because God can take action to prevent evil, He always must do so. I disagree - without the possibility of evil, free will cannot exist, and a universe where there is both good and bad is preferable to a universe where there can be neither goodness, love, or beauty. That's my take on it, anyway. But realistically, you can't fully understand God, so this is all conjecture, and not ultimately provable either way.
Nylan
Characters Welcome
The key point with perfection is that it's what we're not, but what we'd like to be. It is the highest state of being. If we were perfect there would be no point in going through the trial that is life, rather than going straight to eternal heavenly glory
Flaws in God applies solely to polytheism. If God was not perfect and if God was not everything he asks his children to try to be, then he would be a hypocrite and would not be God.
Jawz II
Oh Dear
Yes it dose, and denying it is just dumb.
You cant be all 3 and allow all this crap to go on, how are you all good if you allow some pedophile to do horrible stuff to kids and then kill them?
The one and only correct answer: You are not.
Yeah he gave us free choice, do you want the option to screw yourself up really good? I dont. Whats gods big plan with the creation of earth and humans? To prove were idiots? Of course we are, he didnt know that about us when he created us? Then how the hell is he all knowing, if he dosent know what were made of?
He knows everything except wether or not the devil can lure us onto his path? And he will let us suffer through all kinds of torture to find out? and if we do indeed screw up, he is gonna torture us for ever?
Oh yeah that sounds like an all powerful all knowing all good being.
Sounds nothing like an ignorant sadist with a new cruel experiment at all.
Nylan
Characters Welcome
Yes it dose, and denying it is just dumb.
You cant be all 3 and allow all this crap to go on, how are you all good if you allow some pedophile to do horrible stuff to kids and then kill them?
The one and only correct answer: You are not.
Yeah he gave us free choice, do you want the option to screw yourself up really good? I dont. Whats god big plan with the creation of earth and humans? To prove were idiots? Of course we are, he didnt know that about us when he created us? Then how the hell is he all knowing, if he dosent know what were made of?
He knows everything except wether or not the devil can lure us onto his path? And he will let us suffer through all kinds of torture to find out? and if we do indeed screw up, he is gonna torture us for ever?
Oh yeah that sounds like an all powerful all knowing all good being.
Sounds nothing like a sadist with a new cruel experiment at all.
This all goes back to what you believe about the purpose of life to be.
As for me, I believe that this earth was created as a place for us, his spirit children, to grow, learn, gain physical bodies, and to be tested. We had what is called a 'veil' put upon us so that we would not know during life of this test...the equivalent of cheating.
If we prove our righteousness and faithfulness to the degree of what we have been given, we will receive our reward in heaven and continue to progress and grow for all eternity.
God gave mankind free will, the ability to make their own decisions and suffer the consequences (especially when they force suffering upon others), so they would be able to prove themselves properly.
In fact, Satan's original idea was that everybody would go to heaven, but it would be without free agency. Satan would make everyone obey.
Would you rather be a robot or choose your own destiny?
Those who have caused others to suffer will be punished according to their crimes and accountability, and simultaneously those who have been treated unjustly and were put in unfair situations with unfair opportunities or knowledge of what is right and wrong will be compensated and will only be judged according to what they did to the best of their ability and situation.
Questions? Comments? Check out Eran's thread on Mormonism (in his sig) or PM me.
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